Avro Pre-1945 Projects

[hesham]

Hi,

as we spoke before about the Avro Heritage site,there is some projects
to Avro before 1945 period.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.fildes3/Roe1%20to%20Type%20600
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.fildes3/Type%20602%20to%20862

 

[Stargazer]

Great find, hesham!!!

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Stargazer,

here is some of very beautiful projects,from the same source.

 

[hesham]

And;

 

[hesham]

Finally;

 

[lark]

Hesham,

Will you keep in mind that there is no direct
need to 'recreate' the Avro Heritage site..
Interested members can visit the site directly if they like..

 

[Maveric]

...but thanks for this great link!

 

[hesham]

Hi.

the Avro 557 was originally a single seat light monoplane Project,powered by one
Wolseley Viper engine.

 

[Schneiderman]

Its good that you did post the doc and images here as the Avro Heritage site appears to have removed the original files

Do you have a source for the information about the 557 monoplane other than the Avro Aircraft since 1908 Putnam volume?

 

[hesham]

Thank you Schneiderman,

the the source of Avro-557 was the Avro Heritage,the same report,Projected in 1923.

 

[Schneiderman]

Ah well, so it goes.
I wonder why Avro Heritage have taken down the original pages

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I have some suspicious about some Projects from Avro Heritage,they were not allocated to any
Specification.

For example,Avro-564 was a two seat fighter monoplane Project of 1924,was it involved in any Contest ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

Yes there are a lot of questions. Of course not all designs were drawn up to fulfil specifications but in the 1920s in particular it was hard to justify building anything as a private venture. In the 1930s and the advent of the RAF expansion plans, and into the 1940s, most effort was naturally put into pursuing Air Ministry requirements. A lot of these are probably no more than quick concepts even though they appear to have been allocated project numbers. However without some explanation as to the source of the drawings and some idea of the context it is hard to make judgement

 

[hesham]

That's right Schneiderman,

but in private venture,the Avro Heritage mentioned this,for Avro-564,unfortunately no drawing,
but the Avro-565 was relate to this fighter,and also a mystery ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

The side view drawing appears to have RAF markings but at this date there was no obvious requirement for a new two-seat fighter. However Condor powered two-seaters, torpedo bomber and light bomber, were requested for 25/23 and 26/23 so perhaps the design started life to meet one of these.

 

[hesham]

The side view drawing appears to have RAF markings but at this date there was no obvious requirement for a new two-seat fighter. However Condor powered two-seaters, torpedo bomber and light bomber, were requested for 25/23 and 26/23 so perhaps the design started life to meet one of these.

Good analysis Schneiderman,and if we look to 1924,there was two Spec. for high speed fighters ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

also for Avro-570 single seat seaplane Project,I suspect if it was submitted to Spec. 2/25 ?.

 

[hesham]

Also I think the Avro-568 was submitted to Spec. single seat fighter 25/25 ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

..,and if we look to 1924,there was two Spec. for high speed fighters ?.

Meerkoms and Morgan list the Avro Type 566 Avenger under 7/24. 17/24 and 25/24 seem to have been drawn up around specific prototypes

 

[Schneiderman]

Also I think the Avro-568 was submitted to Spec. single seat fighter 25/25 ?.

As I posted on the Hawker thread 25/25 was to cover production of the AW Siskin III and not put out to tender

 

[Schneiderman]

Hi,

also for Avro-570 single seat seaplane Project,I suspect if it was submitted to Spec. 2/25 ?.

Interesting suggestion. The Air Ministry had been asked to fund the development of seaplane racers to compete in the 1925 Schneider Trophy contest but declined, agreeing, instead, to purchase any aircraft built as a private venture after it had competed. 2/25 was the specification which covered the Gloster III racer. It is possible that other companies may have considered entering the contest but I found no reference to Avro considering building an aircraft when I was researching the Schneider Trophy racers. This Type 570 design is probably just a projected development of the Type 566 Avenger and 567 Avenger II and then developed further as the Type 583 Avenger II
We need to know more

 

[hesham]

Interesting suggestion. The Air Ministry had been asked to fund the development of seaplane racers to compete in the 1925 Schneider Trophy contest but declined, agreeing, instead, to purchase any aircraft built as a private venture after it had competed. 2/25 was the specification which covered the Gloster III racer. It is possible that other companies may have considered entering the contest but I found no reference to Avro considering building an aircraft when I was researching the Schneider Trophy racers. This Type 570 design is probably just a projected development of the Type 566 Avenger and 567 Avenger II and then developed further as the Type 583 Avenger II
We need to know more

You are absolutely right,many specifications were not mentioned all their tenders.

 

[Schneiderman]

Ah, but 2/25 wasn't put out to tender, it was specifically for the Gloster III. If Avro had considered entering for the Schneider Trophy they would have had to register with the Royal Aero Club, and they didn't do so

 

[Hood]

The Avro 570 looks more like a fighter, looking closely at the image it looks to have a telescopic gunsight and what could be case ejector chutes.
It could well be the product of making use of an unsubmitted Schneider design, but it probably is a derivative of the Avenger series. I don't think there was a requirement (of even an RAF need) for a seaplane fighter so it was probably a private venture.

 

[hesham]

A convinced respond,

also I suggest that the Avro-577 was submitted to Spec. 33/26 ?,by the way this
competition had anther tenders.

 

[Schneiderman]

I'm not sure that is correct. I think the Atlas, Hyena and Vespa were competitors for 30/24, which the Atlas won. 33/26 was just to cover development of the Atlas.

 

[hesham]

I'm not sure that is correct. I think the Atlas, Hyena and Vespa were competitors for 30/24, which the Atlas won. 33/26 was just to cover development of the Atlas.

But that was from Putnam book about Armstrong ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

Yes, and the DH Putnam says the same. However the Bristol and Vickers Putnam's say 30/24, as does Meekoms and Morgan. As all the aircraft flew in early 1925 and were assessed at Martlesham later than year I think it must have been 30/24.

 

[hesham]

Yes, and the DH Putnam says the same. However the Bristol and Vickers Putnam's say 30/24, as does Meekoms and Morgan. As all the aircraft flew in early 1925 and were assessed at Martlesham later than year I think it must have been 30/24.

OK my friend.

 

[Schneiderman]

Don't worry, its a problem with many of the Putnams. They are excellent books but it is always worth checking the story in more than one, its surprising how different they can be

 

[hesham]

Hi,

also I can ask if Avro-596 was submitted to Spec. 22/26 as Avrop-595 or not ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

Probably not as 22/26 was specifically for a two-seater fighter reconnaissance machine.
There is quite a big difference between the 595 and 596, which had both a longer fuselage and bigger span, more like 'derived from' rather than 'version of'. I can't think of any Air Ministry spec. that requested a single-engine, three seat bomber.
I wonder what the CN.1 and CN.2 designations signify?

 

[hesham]

Probably not as 22/26 was specifically for a two-seater fighter reconnaissance machine.

I also have this suspicious.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

anther doubt in Avro-601 and if it was submitted to Spec. 22/27 or not ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

22/27 = three-engined night bomber. I guess you mean 22/26? If so then maybe, an alternative to Type 595. Spec issued Nov 1926 so tendered designs could have 1927 dates

 

[hesham]

Sorry,I will correct it,I meant 26/27.

 

[Schneiderman]

That's seems possible

 

[hesham]

Hi,

can we assume that,the Avro-614 & Avro-615 were submitted to Spec. 20/28 ?.

 

[Schneiderman]

Whoaaa, no.
20/28 was for a six-engine flying boat, Supermarine type 179 'Giant'

 

[hesham]

Whoaaa, no.
20/28 was for a six-engine flying boat, Supermarine type 179 'Giant'

What about 22/28,I know it was cancelled,but maybe the competitors were not satisfy
the Air Ministry ?.