Avro 730 and other OR.330 Reconnaissance/Bomber designs

[blackkite]

Hi! Jozef-san's amazing video.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cge-sXov4g

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

Avro 730 & OR.330E

Avro 730 & OR.330E

www.whatifmodellers.com

 

[sienar]

Pretty different intakes on this model

STOCK IMAGE - Model of the proposed Avro 730 supersonic bomber by www.DIOMEDIA.com

Model of the proposed avro 730 supersonic bomber. Millions of premium Stock photos and illustrations created by leading commercial photographers, world-famous Museums, Historical Archives and Private Collections. Image ID: 01ATG1MG

www.diomedia.com

 

[dan_inbox]

See this config here:

Here

 

[CNH]

From PRO AVIA 65/637

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

Concept Models - W879SP2's Pictures

sites.google.com

 

[blackkite]

Проект разведчика-бомбардировщика Handley-Page HP.100 (Великобритания)

Проект разведчика-бомбардировщика Handley-Page HP.100 (Великобритания)

www.dogswar.ru

The British project was developed by Handley-Page and it received the HP.100 index. Among the options being developed, the most important priority was the variant with a delta wing and front-facing horizontal plumage, that is, the so-called "duck" scheme. According to the initial mission, the vehicle was to cruise at a speed of 2.5 M (2950 km/h) at an altitude of 19,120 meters. The main structural materials are special heat-resistant steel and titanium. Aerodynamic heating of the surface of the aircraft at such speeds would be from 230 degrees Celsius to 270 degrees Celsius. The aircraft had to find widespread use of so-called layered structures. The chassis, control devices and pipelines were placed in the cooled compartments. The combat range was to be 4,000 miles, or about 7,400 kilometers.
The general design was to be completed in December 1956, the wind tunnel study was to be completed in July 1957, and the first scheduled flight was to take place in mid-1959. The series was supposed to be launched by the last quarter of 1964. Although the aircraft was originally intended to be used as a strategic reconnaissance aircraft, a requirement was added in 1957 from which the aircraft could be used as a bomber with weapons of free-range nuclear bombs or aeroballistic missiles. The wide track of the chassis allowed to place the combat load under the fuselage. The possibility of placing the rocket over the fuselage was also investigated. In the variant of the bomber with a payload on an external suspension weighing 5443 kg, the aircraft had a range of 8,800 km and a speed of 2.5M at an altitude of 19812 meters. The vehicle had an extremely thin wing with sharp front edges and developed slats, as well as the deflected nose part of the fuselage on take-off and landing, as it was later done on concord and Tu-144 aircraft, as well as an experienced Soviet strike aircraft T-4 Sukhoi.
According to the project, the machine was to be equipped with twelve RB.121 engines, placed in six pieces, in three pairs, on the lower surface of the wing, on each side of the fuselage. The layout of the keel seating at the ends of the wing was investigated, but in the end it was rejected in favor of one large keel with a traditional location in the tail part.
The aircraft was to be fitted with a search-and-reconnaissance radar with two large antennas (15.24 m) placed on the side surface of the fuselage, as well as a pulse-doppler radar. The crew consisted of two pilots and two equipment operators. The normal take-off weight was about 93,000 kg, the load on the wing - 400.3 kg/m, the working ceiling - 18837-24384 m, cruising speed - 1.76-2.5 M in different variants, range - 7500 km without refueling and 11000 km with refueling in the air. The range of flight at ultra-low altitude scant to 3,890 km. In my opinion, the figures look too optimistic, but they are taken from British sources.

Span : 59.4ft, Length : 185ft, Wing area : 2,500ft2, Gross weight : 205,000lb, RB121 : 81,600lb each.　　

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/hp-jpg.7987/

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[blackkite]

Hi! AVRO 730.

Avro 730 - Alchetron, The Free Social Encyclopedia

The Avro 730 was a planned Mach 3 reconnaissance aircraft and strategic bomber that was being developed by Avro Aircraft for the Royal Air Force (RAF). It had been originally envisioned as a very highspeed aircraft to perform aerial reconnaissance missions, conforming with the requirements of Air M

alchetron.com

AVRO 730 initial plan : high speed reconnaissance plane with 4×Armstrong Siddeley P.159 jet engien(20,750lb each)+2×Armstrong Siddeley rocket engine.
AVRO 730 final plan : high speed reconnaissance bomber with 8×Armstrong Siddeley P.176 jet engien(14,000lb).
AVRO 731 : three-eights scale flying test model.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Final design wind tunnel test model.

The Avro 730 was designed to be a high-altitude supersonic nuclear...

The Avro 730 was designed to be a high-altitude supersonic nuclear bomber and strategic reconnaissance aircraft. The project was cancelled as a result of the 1957 Defence White Paper due to...

www.gettyimages.co.jp

And display model. Wing trailing edge is swept forward.

https://flic.kr/p/S34udU

 

[archipeppe]

Here it is my contribution about the matter, it was done for such book:

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

 

[blackkite]

Wind tunnel test model's wing has sweep forward trailing edge.
730 drawing in Tony-san's book is same as your drawing, wing with straight trailing edge.

 

[archipeppe]

Wind tunnel test model's wing has sweep forward trailing edge.
730 drawing in Tony-san's book is same as your drawing, wing with straight trailing edge.

My reference indicate a straight trailing edge, so I assumed that it was the correct one.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Fuselage bottom shape of this E.E. P.10 model is different from official display model.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/english-electric-p-10-raf-museum-cosford-jpg.627917/

You can see two jet booster located wing root. Wing is integrated with 24 ramjet engines.
Take off is executed by two jet engines at light weight condition, then aerial refueld after take off.
Or use rocket boosted trolley when full fuel condition take off(with additional wing tanks?).(Source : Tony-san's BRITISH SECRET PROJECTS JET BOMBERS SINCE 1949, page,76)
Cruising speed : Mach 3.0

English Electric P.10 (SR2)

Hi folks, well finally managed to actually finish one this year. Whilst beavering away on the big Bucc and Overstrand I fancied a nice, quick build to get the juices flowing, (don't be disgusting Darling !!!) so thought I'd have a go at this little beauty, the S&M 1/144th English Electric P.1...

www.britmodeller.com

Great modeller says that....
”Hi folks, well finally managed to actually finish one this year. Whilst beavering away on the big Bucc and Overstrand I fancied a nice, quick build to get the juices flowing, (don't be disgusting Darling !!!) so thought I'd have a go at this little beauty, the S&M 1/144th English Electric P.10 hypersonic ramjet powered strategic reconnaissance aircraft that was cited for delivery to RAF Bomber Command by 1962. This is a real drawing board design dating from 1956 to ORI and was designed to operate at altitudes in excess of 70,000 feet at speeds exceeding Mach 3. It had a unique ducted ramjet wing boosted by two reheated RB123 turbojets in the rear wing roots. The powerful Napier ramjets, all 12 of them operated a low fuel/air mixture for sustained operation above 36,000 feet and the turbojets were used mainly for low speed flight including take off and landing. The ramjets were so efficient that it was estimated that the aircraft could cruise at 70,000 feet using only one quarter of the available thrust leaving a healthy margin for any evasive manoeuvres, the excess exhaust gases exited via a two dimensional convergent/divergent nozzle. Two removable outer 'wings' were also to be fitted which served as increased surface area for low speed handling as well as much needed fuel tanks and were jettisoned prior to acceleration to high Mach numbers, (not much fun for those living on the flight path !!!).It was to be flown by a crew of two, pilot and observer/navigator and used two sideways looking Red Drover aerials on KU band fitted along the bottom of the fuselage behind the nose gear bay. All in all a very sound idea but like so many innovative ideas of the time it was cancelled on grounds of cost. It was essentially designed as a proof of concept but EE were tasked to see if it were possible to design a bomber aircraft capable of delivering nuclear weapons at Mach+, however this was shelved early on and it is far more likely that the aircraft would have entered service as a strategic reconnaissance platform similar to the later SR-71, only a lot more efficient.
The kit is basic but accurate, (well it matches my EE brochure drawings that I have) and comes in solid resin, all 24 pieces and nice additions include the two outer wing tanks and recon belly pod. The only thing I changed was the undercarriage as I thought the kit parts way underscale, so I rebuilt them to match scale plans, (actually they come courtesy of a long defunct Airfix Trident !)

Airbrushed using four shades of gloss/satin white, (Tamiya +/- small amounts of light grey, Alclad magnesium and duralumin, medium sea grey and NATO black for the undercariage and the national markings are courtesy of Superscale.

I've painted her in the standard V-Bomber markings of the time depicting an aircraft serving with 'A' flight, 543 squadron based at Wyton in late 1962, (though I have a sneaking feeling that the runways may well have had to have been lengthened by a fair bit !) The only decal that comes with the kit is that for the canopy other than that it's all out of the spares box. It's marked up as XM788 taken from a cancelled second, mid production batch Victor B2, which as a 'super V-Bomber ' would be appropriate...

Sits nicely alongside my Skybolt VC10 and 'Bombcorde.and makes for an interesting 'what could have been'.

Hope you like it...next in the series will be a scratchbuilt Handley Page HP-100 to go with it. I'll be taking it to Cosford on Sunday as part of the 'what-If ' bomber Command display, so come and say Hi, (or throw rotten tomatoes at me if you prefer”

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Vickers Type 799. 4cluster×4 ,16 RB121 jet engines!!

Vickers Type 799

Operational Requirement 330 (OR.330) started life as a 1954 requirement for a high altitude, high speed reconnaissance aircraft (R.156T). The mission would necessitate high altitude (70,000 ft) high speed (mach 2.5+) missions over enemy territory to gather radar intelligence. This aircraft was...

ukx-dev.fandom.com

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Vickers type 799.

vickers type 799 Plans Free Download - AeroFred.com - Download and Share Free Model Airplane and Boat Plans.

aerofred.com

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
Source : Derek Wood PROJECT CANCELLED, 1975. JANE'S.

English Electric P.10

An interesting concept for a reconaisance aircraft. Briefly: Integrated Ramjet wing (12 burners on each wing spread over half the span) with turbojets at the roots to provide takeoff power and acceleration through Mach 1.2. Designed to fly at Mach 3 at 90k feet. I think I will try to make the win...

forums.x-plane.org

 

[scautomoton]

Dredging this thread up from its quiet slumber...

Are there any detailed drawing of the 730 undercarriage design available?

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

There’s a picture of an Avro 730 (or maybe the civil development) model on Electro-hydraulic’s Ltd display stand at Farnborough. Electro-Hydraulics Ltd being a Landing Gear company, the model showed more details of the main landing gear than I’ve seen elsewhere. The Avro 730 fuselage diameter changed several times so I expected the gear design changed with it.

From memory the gear retraction mechanics shared a similarity to the Vulcan nose landing gear but of course it also had an eight wheel bogie like the Vulcan MLG.

Some of the early 730 schemes claimed to have four ejectable outer wheels tyres and brakes… stupidly difficulty to do for real. At around the time proposals emerged for 17k foot long runways so I guess they might have rejected the dropping wheels and compensated with smaller brakes thus needing longer runways. Two proposed;- Bedford and Kemble with neither built…. I’ve never found a smoking gun to link the massive runway proposals with 730 but it kinda fits.

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

Pretty different intakes on this model
View attachment 625132

STOCK IMAGE - Model of the proposed Avro 730 supersonic bomber by www.DIOMEDIA.com

Model of the proposed avro 730 supersonic bomber. Millions of premium Stock photos and illustrations created by leading commercial photographers, world-famous Museums, Historical Archives and Private Collections. Image ID: 01ATG1MG

www.diomedia.com

As for the full size Avro 730 mock up, constructed on Woodford south site, I’ve looked at this picture, heavily airbrushed, and wondered as to size of item it depicts? Certainly no undisputed photo’s of the mock up seem to have surfaced.

 

[scautomoton]

There’s a picture of an Avro 730 (or maybe the civil development) model on Electro-hydraulic’s Ltd display stand at Farnborough.

I guess I'll have to find some time to head down there. I've not been to that museum before.

 

[Yellow Palace]

The original OR.330/R.156 strategic reconnaissance aircraft was specified to use the Red Drover SLAR as its primary sensor. Was there any suggestion that it might carry ELINT and/or photo-reconnaissance equipment as well as, or in place of, the radar?

 

[scautomoton]

Where would I go to find the submission documents for OR.330/RB.156T? I've searched all the obvious names on the National Archives (OR.330, RB.156T, Supersonic Bomber etc etc) but nothing that looks like a submission appears (unlike for F.155T where the submissions pop up and are obvious in what they are). Can anyone suggest where I would go to view the Avro 730 design submission?

 

[foiling]

Here it is my contribution about the matter, it was done for such book:

The Quarto Group

Brimming with creative inspiration, how-to projects, and useful information to enrich your everyday life, pursue your interests and passions at Quarto.com. Visit our site to browse and buy our beautifully illustrated books for children and adults.

www.quartoknows.com

View attachment 627928

A superb illustration of an extraordinary design.

 

[foiling]

Thank you.

 

[scautomoton]

Where would I go to find the submission documents for OR.330/RB.156T? I've searched all the obvious names on the National Archives (OR.330, RB.156T, Supersonic Bomber etc etc) but nothing that looks like a submission appears (unlike for F.155T where the submissions pop up and are obvious in what they are). Can anyone suggest where I would go to view the Avro 730 design submission?

Anyone?

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Anyone?

Check with the company archives or with the archives at Farnborough. Avro definitely has a heritage centre dedicated to the company, not sure about Handley Page, EE or any of the others. The FAST archives at Farnborough might have something too, perhaps even at the RAF Museum.

That being said, I'm not sure if they'd possess the submission documents themselves. BSP 2 by Tony Buttler makes note of record groups AVIA 53, 54 and 65 and AIR 20 in the Sources, but these sections apply to the entire book and not just for the RB.156T chapter, so it's a pretty wide range.

Unfortunately that's all that I can do to help, I'm afraid I'm still quite inexperienced with UK archives, and this is based off of the small amount of research I have managed to conduct in the past. I hope that this was of some help.

 

[scautomoton]

Check with the company archives or with the archives at Farnborough. Avro definitely has a heritage centre dedicated to the company, not sure about Handley Page, EE or any of the others. The FAST archives at Farnborough might have something too, perhaps even at the RAF Museum.

That being said, I'm not sure if they'd possess the submission documents themselves. BSP 2 by Tony Buttler makes note of record groups AVIA 53, 54 and 65 and AIR 20 in the Sources, but these sections apply to the entire book and not just for the RB.156T chapter, so it's a pretty wide range.

Unfortunately that's all that I can do to help, I'm afraid I'm still quite inexperienced with UK archives, and this is based off of the small amount of research I have managed to conduct in the past. I hope that this was of some help.

Yes I've been in touch with Farnborough and am in the middle of an ongoing conversation to see what they have. I've also seen that the RAF Museum's online inventory is now up and running, and it throws up myriad results, so I'm booking a Reading Room visit soon. I'll just have to wait and see what I find.

 

[VictorXL188]

Check with the company archives or with the archives at Farnborough. Avro definitely has a heritage centre dedicated to the company, not sure about Handley Page, EE or any of the others. The FAST archives at Farnborough might have something too, perhaps even at the RAF Museum.

That being said, I'm not sure if they'd possess the submission documents themselves. BSP 2 by Tony Buttler makes note of record groups AVIA 53, 54 and 65 and AIR 20 in the Sources, but these sections apply to the entire book and not just for the RB.156T chapter, so it's a pretty wide range.

Unfortunately that's all that I can do to help, I'm afraid I'm still quite inexperienced with UK archives, and this is based off of the small amount of research I have managed to conduct in the past. I hope that this was of some help.

My best advice, as far as EE is concerned, would be to try the BAe archives at Warton. Its a good team there, or certainly was when I visited them back in 2007/8

 

[Zoo Tycoon]

The Avro/BAE Woodford archive went to BAE SYSTEMS Farnborough when the site closed. When I spent some time in the Woodford archive I found very little on the 730 but the place was a mess;- literally piles of disorganised paper. I was later informed in about 2012 that what was left of the 730 material had subsequently transferred to Farnborough archive but wasn’t allowed to view without a valid business reason.

I was also told the majority of the material including the mock up photos recorded had either been lost in a fire in be early sixties or destroyed by an archivist who didn’t want any information marked as Secret getting out to the public in the late seventies.

Best I can do and good luck.

 

[scautomoton]

Thanks for the information chaps. I've been to Hendon and viewed the R156T documents there, which cover the smaller original reconnaissance-only variant. If I'm honest, this obtains the bulk of the information I require.