Australian Ship Building in trouble...

[Volkodav]

Tier 3 the 15 Fremantle Class patrol boats (that had been designed for but never fitted with Oto Melara 76mm Compato and antiship missiles)

Tell me more...

Ok this is really frustrating as, although I have previously found references to the proposed six additional missile armed FAC versions of the Fremanatles and I know that there were structural provisions for the Oto Melara with space reserved ( I believe is was purposed as a gym) below the 40mm, I cannot lay my hands on them.

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

I know Wikipedia is not a preferred source but it does relate what was my understanding that the original contract was for 15 plus 5 patrol boats to be followed by six or more missile armed FAC versions with plans for a total of up to 30 all together. My cousin was on the build at NQEA and confirmed to me, as did a retired RAN CPO Greenie (Weapons Electrical Technician), that all Fremantles had provision for the 76mm.

During the 70s and 80s many navies were greatly enamored with FACs and the concept that missile armed FACs would be "battleship killers", the RAN was no exception but proposals and PBs playing the role of FACs in exercises was as far as it got.

 

[Volkodav]

Tier 3 the 15 Fremantle Class patrol boats (that had been designed for but never fitted with Oto Melara 76mm Compato and antiship missiles)

Tell me more...

Ok this is really frustrating as, although I have previously found references to the proposed six additional missile armed FAC versions of the Fremanatles and I know that there were structural provisions for the Oto Melara with space reserved ( I believe is was purposed as a gym) below the 40mm, I cannot lay my hands on them.

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

I know Wikipedia is not a preferred source but it does relate what was my understanding that the original contract was for 15 plus 5 patrol boats to be followed by six or more missile armed FAC versions with plans for a total of up to 30 all together. My cousin was on the build at NQEA and confirmed to me, as did a retired RAN CPO Greenie (Weapons Electrical Technician), that all Fremantles had provision for the 76mm.

During the 70s and 80s many navies were greatly enamored with FACs and the concept that missile armed FACs would be "battleship killers", the RAN was no exception but proposals and PBs playing the role of FACs in exercises was as far as it got.

On reflection I recall photographs of models and artists impressions of the Brooke Marine and Luerssen offerings to the RAN in books and periodicals I found in the uni library in the late 80s early 90s. There was a lot of public domain information out there in that period that may well be lost now.

 

[GTX]

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

Are you referring to the Dhofar Class?

 

[Volkodav]

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

Are you referring to the Dhofar Class?

No but playing with my search parameters I finally found it.

AL WAFI patrol boats (1977) - Royal Navy of Oman (Oman)

 

[GTX]

Ah ok. It would appear that the Fremantles were slightly larger than these though interesting that the main armament was reduced. Though given the RAN's main use of them that is hardly surprising. I must admit a version with the 76mm gun and missiles would be interesting.

 

[southwestforests]

but to be honest, its probably better for my sanity to see out my career in my new field instead. Shipbuilding is just too political to ever allow the experts to just do their jobs.

That is a sad commentary on human nature and how that nature has a relationship with power & a reminder of something Dad said toward end of his USN career from which he retired as Commander, O-5; it was that he had no problems with being passed over for promotion to Captain, O-6, because he signed up to drive ships not to play politics.

 

[Rickshaw]

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

Are you referring to the Dhofar Class?

No but playing with my search parameters I finally found it.

AL WAFI patrol boats (1977) - Royal Navy of Oman (Oman)

This one?

 

[Volkodav]

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

Are you referring to the Dhofar Class?

No but playing with my search parameters I finally found it.

AL WAFI patrol boats (1977) - Royal Navy of Oman (Oman)

This one?

yes

 

[Pioneer]

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

Are you referring to the Dhofar Class?

No but playing with my search parameters I finally found it.

AL WAFI patrol boats (1977) - Royal Navy of Oman (Oman)

This one?

yes

Although it looks impressive, I think the OTO 76mm would have still been somewhat over the top for the RAN and the role that the actual Fremantle's played..... now saying this, I've found:

"The main weapon was originally to be two 30-mm guns on a twin-mount, but the reconditioned Bofors were selected to keep costs down; provision was made to install an updated weapon later in the class' service life, but this did not eventuate."

As a side note, do we know what type of anti-ship missiles the planned additional six Fremantle's that never happened were meant to have had?


Regards
Pioneer

 

[Pioneer]

Oman formerly operated 76mm armed Brooke marine built PB/FACs with the Oto Melara forward but as they retired in the 90s, can't even find a photo of one on line now. The instalation would have been the same as that as the two designs were related, I believe the Fremantles were basically striped down versions of the Oman vessels.

Are you referring to the Dhofar Class?

No but playing with my search parameters I finally found it.

AL WAFI patrol boats (1977) - Royal Navy of Oman (Oman)

This one?

yes

Although it looks impressive, I think the OTO 76mm would have still been somewhat over the top for the RAN and the role that the actual Fremantle's played..... now saying this, I've found:

"The main weapon was originally to be two 30-mm guns on a twin-mount, but the reconditioned Bofors were selected to keep costs down; provision was made to install an updated weapon later in the class' service life, but this did not eventuate."

As a side note, do we know what type of anti-ship missiles the planned additional six Fremantle's that never happened were meant to have had?


Regards
Pioneer

I'm wondering, for the era, this twin 30mm gun mount might have been the EMERLEC twin 30mm gun system???

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Volkodav]

I believe the EMERLEC was specified for the DDL, as was the Exocet. Nothing source wise but I think Exocet, although Harpoon had been acquired with the FFGs and the USN had incorporated them in the Pegasus Class PHM in an arrangement that may have worked on the Fremantle.

 

[Pioneer]

I believe the EMERLEC was specified for the DDL, as was the Exocet. Nothing source wise but I think Exocet, although Harpoon had been acquired with the FFGs and the USN had incorporated them in the Pegasus Class PHM in an arrangement that may have worked on the Fremantle.

Thanks Volkodav
You're undoubtedly correct in your analogy - especially in terms of standardisation of a given missile type by the RAN would make sense.
Saying this both the Exocet & Harpoon were large and heavy missile for a patrol boat like the Fremantle class....I had in my mind perhaps the smaller and lighter Sea Skua...say two twin launchers on the afterdeck....

Regards
Pioneer

 

[starviking]

I believe the EMERLEC was specified for the DDL, as was the Exocet. Nothing source wise but I think Exocet, although Harpoon had been acquired with the FFGs and the USN had incorporated them in the Pegasus Class PHM in an arrangement that may have worked on the Fremantle.

The DDL article in Warships 2017 gives the DDL 30 mms in twin BMARC mountings.

 

[Volkodav]

I believe the EMERLEC was specified for the DDL, as was the Exocet. Nothing source wise but I think Exocet, although Harpoon had been acquired with the FFGs and the USN had incorporated them in the Pegasus Class PHM in an arrangement that may have worked on the Fremantle.

The DDL article in Warships 2017 gives the DDL 30 mms in twin BMARC mountings.

I have a mid 70s janes in the bookcase in N° 1 sons bed room, when I'm brave enough to run the gauntlet of his attack cat I'll pull it out and have a read to see if it specifies the mount. I have also seen suggestion of a twin 35mm.

 

[GTX]

Controversial British Hunter-class warship program survives as government prepares to unveil Australia's 'Future Navy'

Australia's troubled Hunter-class frigate program has avoided being axed following a sweeping review of the navy's combat surface fleet, with at least six and possibly several more of the large and expensive warships to be built over coming decades.

www.abc.net.au

Speculation OPVs might be in trouble included here.

 

[Pioneer]

Ah ok. It would appear that the Fremantles were slightly larger than these though interesting that the main armament was reduced. Though given the RAN's main use of them that is hardly surprising. I must admit a version with the 76mm gun and missiles would be interesting.

Just stumbled across this CG rendition of Fremantle class equipped with Bofors 57mm gun mount.
In hindsight, probably a more suited calibre for the designs use IMO

Regards
Pioneer

 

[amadolabonte]

Up until a couple of months ago I and many former colleagues were being regularly contacted about specialty systems engineering roles in shipbuilding, teams were being built with whoever they could find, with many of those people being upskilled asap due to a lack of relevant experience. Some of the roles I was personally contacted about were a little intimidating, i.e. I would need to have had terminal Dunning Kruger to believe I had the required skills and experience, however there were also assurances of fast tracked training and mentoring etc.

Then it all stopped. Roles that are required going forward are not being recruited, teams that had several people are now down to two or three with existing roles not being back filled, the money has been turned off. Those working on the government side as either government employees or consultants, have seen their workloads go through the roof and their resources cut. I've given up getting back into shipbuilding and am switching to another field within defence, its all just too chaotic and unpredictable.

Government can blame the contractors, navy and the Capability, Acquisition and Sustainment Group, but they are the ones who are deciding who is worked with, what they are contracted to do ship building companies, how much money is spent on what and when. They are the ones ignoring advice, (disbanding advisory boards even) signing contracts then demanding after that certain favored contractors are given work even though they have proven unreliable and inefficient.

It is probably also no coincidence that we have a new defence minister, a man who desperately wants to be prime Minister and has a reputation for shaking things up to make himself look vigorous and effective etc.

The sad thing is we learned lessons on submarines and destroyers the people who over came the structural contractual issues to deliver high quality platforms to Navy are still out there but have been completely ignored because politicians decided they didn't know how to do what they had just successfully done and decided to start from scratch. I love ships and shipbuilding, I aspired to a senior test or technical role on new subs or frigates, but to be honest, its probably better for my sanity to see out my career in my new field instead. Shipbuilding is just too political to ever allow the experts to just do their jobs.

I'm in the planning stages of building a small ship and need some advice on materials. My goal is to balance durability with weight to ensure the ship is both sturdy and easy to handle. I’ve heard good things about composites like fiberglass and carbon fiber, but I’m also considering traditional woods like oak or mahogany. What materials have you found to be the best for this purpose? Any recommendations on specific types or brands, and how they compare in terms of cost and performance would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Foo Fighter]

There are plenty of boat building forums out there, you might be best served asking them.

 

[Pioneer]

I'm in the planning stages of building a small ship and need some advice on materials. My goal is to balance durability with weight to ensure the ship is both sturdy and easy to handle. I’ve heard good things about composites like fiberglass and carbon fiber, but I’m also considering traditional woods like oak or mahogany. What materials have you found to be the best for this purpose? Any recommendations on specific types or brands, and how they compare in terms of cost and performance would be greatly appreciated!

Good luck with your build amodolabonte!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[GTX]

Relevant to this topic: SDIP 2 - Continuous naval shipbuilding and sustainment