"Arsenal Plane" Concepts

I will continue to repeat my complaint an Arsenal Plane should have A2A capability as in it can fire everything in the arsenal.

These are bombers
 
_Del_ said:
Something like a Harvest Hawk capability makes a lot of sense to have in your pocket in low-intensity environments. I'm not sure the availability and survivability in a major high-intensity conflict makes a good use case
Click to expand...
These aren't direct bombers, but standoff from 100s of nm. Bombing is a much higher priority mission than airlift and if the US builds up Australia and forward deploys materiel there it won't even have to use airlift. From Australia 3 C-17s fully loaded with LRASMs could destroy any PLAN CSG. Much better than giving more cash to the USN.

bobbymike said:
I will continue to repeat my complaint an Arsenal Plane should have A2A capability as in it can fire everything in the arsenal.

These are bombers
Click to expand...
Who said that it won't be escort drones coming out of a pallet?
 
trose213 said:
These aren't direct bombers, but standoff from 100s of nm. Bombing is a much higher priority mission than airlift and if the US builds up Australia and forward deploys materiel there it won't even have to use airlift. From Australia 3 C-17s fully loaded with LRASMs could destroy any PLAN CSG. Much better than giving more cash to the USN.
Click to expand...
Good luck with that.
 
trose213 said:
_Del_ said:
Something like a Harvest Hawk capability makes a lot of sense to have in your pocket in low-intensity environments. I'm not sure the availability and survivability in a major high-intensity conflict makes a good use case
Click to expand...
These aren't direct bombers, but standoff from 100s of nm. Bombing is a much higher priority mission than airlift and if the US builds up Australia and forward deploys materiel there it won't even have to use airlift. From Australia 3 C-17s fully loaded with LRASMs could destroy any PLAN CSG. Much better than giving more cash to the USN.

bobbymike said:
I will continue to repeat my complaint an Arsenal Plane should have A2A capability as in it can fire everything in the arsenal.

These are bombers
Click to expand...
Who said that it won't be escort drones coming out of a pallet?
Click to expand...
Ok when that happens I’ll call it an arsenal plane
 
I appreciate all the practical ideas, like using 747;s or C17;s.

But your not looking at the political and deterrent side.

I'm going to bomb you to oblivion using my 1 Sqn of updated Avro Vulcans, with laser defence systems, is much much more impressive.
 
www.washingtontimes.com

Air Force hopes to boost arsenal with retrofitted ‘Dragons’

The Air Force plans to launch a live cruise missile dropped out of the back of a cargo plane before the end of the year as part of “Rapid Dragon” — a program to turn the lumbering military aircraft normally used to haul troops and equipment into lethal platforms.
www.washingtontimes.com www.washingtontimes.com
 
Rapid Dragon’s first live fire test deployed from a cargo aircraft destroys target

Published Dec 16, 2021

EGLIN AIR FORCE BASE, FLORIDA (AFRL) – The Air Force Rapid Dragon Program, a fast-paced experimentation campaign led by the Air Force Strategic Development Planning and Experimentation (SDPE) office, successfully completed its final flight test December 16 at the Eglin AFB Overwater Test Range.

The flight test capstoned a 2-year series and culminated in a live fire of a current inventory cruise missile armed with a live warhead. Rapid Dragon demonstrates the ability to employ weapons using standard airdrop procedures from cargo aircraft using the Rapid Dragon Palletized Weapon System.

The program name is derived from a thousand-year-old Chinese military designed crossbow catapult that launched multiple crossbow bolts with the pull of a single trigger, raining destruction down on armies from tremendous ranges. These lethal devices were called Ji Long Che—Rapid Dragon Carts. Today, the Rapid Dragon concept is changing the game again, this time as an airborne delivery system for U.S. Air Force weapons. And like its namesake, these palletized munitions promise to unleash mighty salvos en masse on distant adversaries.

During the December test, an MC-130J flown by an Air Force Special Operations Command operational flight crew, received new targeting data while in flight which was then routed to the cruise missile flight test vehicle (FTV). The aircraft agnostic Battle Management System’s inflight receipt and upload of the new targeting data into the FTV was a first-time achievement with a live cruise missile.

Once inside the drop zone over the Gulf of Mexico, the MC-130J aircrew airdropped a four-cell Rapid Dragon deployment system containing the FTV and three mass simulants, which were sequentially released from the palletized deployment box while under parachute. Safe separation from the deployment box and weapon deconfliction was demonstrated using an unconventional deployment method (nose-down vertical orientation). Immediately after the vertical release, the FTV deployed its wings and tail, achieved aerodynamic control, ignited its engine, performed a powered pull-up maneuver, and proceeded toward its newly assigned target. The cruise missile successfully destroyed its target upon impact.

The next step for the Rapid Dragon Program will be a live-fire test with a cruise missile from a C-17 in Spring 2022, demonstrating the aircraft agnostic capabilities of the Palletized Weapon System. Of note, the new retargeting methodology developed by the Rapid Dragon team is designed to be transferrable to other strike and cargo platforms, potentially increasing the lethality of those aircraft. Lastly, a follow-on program will look at expanding the Rapid Dragon carriage portfolio to include additional weapon systems and multiple effects capabilities, as well as continuing the maturation of the system, taking it from a developmental prototype to an operational prototype over the next two years.

“This type of experimentation campaign, that address capability gaps and demonstrates transformative efforts, helps us shape future requirements and reduces timeline to fielding,” said Maj. Gen. Heather Pringle, Air Force Research Laboratory commander, adding “This approach ultimately enables a rapid fielding alternative to traditional lengthy acquisition timelines.”

In addition to SDPE and AFSOC, demonstration participants included the Naval Surface Warfare Center-Dahlgren; Standoff Munitions Application Center; Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control; Systima Technologies; Safran Electronics & Defense, Parachutes USA, and R4 Integration, Inc.

Agility and collaboration enabled this government/industry team to go from a design to a system level flight test in 10 months, followed by a live fire five months later. During those last five months, Rapid Dragon has conducted five system level flight tests using three different aircraft (MC-130J, EC-130SJ, and C-17A).

“Rapid Dragon is a prime example of a government/industry partnership that embraces this acceleration mindset, building a community of subject matter experts and executing an aggressive, but well-thought-out, experimentation campaign,” said Dr. Dean Evans, SDPE’s Rapid Dragon Program Manager. This sentiment was echoed by Aaron Klosterman, SDPE’s Experimentation & Prototyping Division Chief when he said, “This accomplishment is a testament to what an agile U.S. Air Force and industry team can do when it is empowered to do business differently.”

The successful Rapid Dragon experiments pave the way for U.S. and allied mobility platforms to dramatically increase fires available for a combatant commander to place more adversary targets at risk.

“Rapid Dragon was able to accelerate development by building a broad and strong team. We were committed to a ’test often/learn-fast’ culture, dedicated to experimenting frequently and taking calculated risks. In addition to the MAJCOMs and Air Staff, the Rapid Dragon team included the Developmental Test (DT) and Operational Test (OT) communities, the aircraft and weapons Program Offices, and the mission planners. This collaboration from the onset streamlined the process and accelerated development, involving groups from the program inception that are not normally included at the very early stages, and that has made all the difference,” Evans added.

Rapid Dragon’s first live fire test deployed from a cargo aircraft destroys target – Air Force Research Laboratory

afresearchlab.com afresearchlab.com
 
kc-390-f15.png


projetosalternativosnavais.wordpress.com

Embraer Kc-390 Bomber – Emprego de Container Drone Planador e otimizar aviões de transporte para bombardeio ……… Ler mais >>>>

Baseado em alguns antigos projetos da USAF, esta proposta incorpora o conceito de kits de lançamento de bombas burras ou inteligentes por meio de um container planador lançado pela porta traseira d…
projetosalternativosnavais.wordpress.com projetosalternativosnavais.wordpress.com
 
@zjz : It's indeed difficult to evaluate but there certain indicators:
- the sea state would have to be very rough to have such appearance from a higher alt. There is no indication of weather or visual typical conditions for that
- the missiles just transitioned from chute separation to the sea skimming portion of their flight without any lengthy dive.
 
_Del_ said:
The problem with using the cargo fleet is there will already be a serious strain on the AMC (I stopped myself from typing MAC!) fleet in a major conflict. It's fine to have that as a swing capability, but unless we invest more into the fleet, I'm not sure it really adds anything. Those aircraft will be quite busy already lugging beans, bullets, and bombs to support ongoing operations by dedicated combat aircraft.

And the only line open is the Herk line. The one least viable as a swing-bomber in a major conflict.

Something like a Harvest Hawk capability makes a lot of sense to have in your pocket in low-intensity environments. I'm not sure the availability and survivability in a major high-intensity conflict makes a good use case (unless we invest in a much bigger cargo fleet-- typically harder to fund, as AMC aircraft are less "sexy" than buying more combat aircraft).
Click to expand...
Palletized munitions don't require mods to the aircraft. So the capability can be used in a surge capacity and the planes immediately used for cargo on the next mission, or vice versa. Plus, how many C-17s are you going to need for this role? They are dropping out 54 AGM-158s per strike; a half dozen dedicated to this role would amount to 324 missiles per sortie. I very small force of C-17s might be used this way to great effect in the first days of a conflict. Also the use of C-130s opens up a lot of rough field options in the Pacific theater.
 
Why not mount the stores directly to the external hardpoints? The pod is heavy (900 lbs) and big, potentially blocking other stores.
 
eagle said:
Why not mount the stores directly to the external hardpoints? The pod is heavy (900 lbs) and big, potentially blocking other stores.
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If you wanted to hang multiples of small weapons and preserve some degree of RCS reduction? But so much would depend on how the shape of the pod interacts with the overall shape of the aircraft. It certainly would not be exactly the same external shape as the Super Hornet pod for both aero and signature reasons.

And given that the B-1 is very much on the last.lap of it's career, I would not hold my breath for anything like the B-1R or weapon pods or what have you.
 
TomS said:
eagle said:
Why not mount the stores directly to the external hardpoints? The pod is heavy (900 lbs) and big, potentially blocking other stores.
Click to expand...

If you wanted to hang multiples of small weapons and preserve some degree of RCS reduction? But so much would depend on how the shape of the pod interacts with the overall shape of the aircraft. It certainly would not be exactly the same external shape as the Super Hornet pod for both aero and signature reasons.

And given that the B-1 is very much on the last.lap of it's career, I would not hold my breath for anything like the B-1R or weapon pods or what have you.
Click to expand...

In my opinion the USAF should have done the B-1R a lot sooner by converting the existing B-1Bs, an opportunity missed.
 
USAF Tests Palletized Munition System In Pacific
Brian Everstine July 24, 2023

A U.S. Air Force MC-130 tests the Rapid Dragon system in 2021.
Credit: U.S. Air Force

The U.S. Air Force’s Air Mobility Command (AMC) has conducted a successful test of the Rapid Dragon pallet system as part of its massive exercise across the Pacific, as the command wants to include the system in all of its planning.

The command, when asked about the Rapid Dragon’s involvement in the Mobility Guardian 2023 exercise, said that it “in coordination with U.S. Indo-Pacific Command successfully conducted a palletized effects test.”

The Rapid Dragon system, initially developed by Air Force Special Operations Command and the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL), uses an air-dropped pallet to launch cruise missiles or other systems.

The system, first tested in 2021, originally focused on the Lockheed Martin Joint Air-to-Surface Missile (JASSM) though the service has expanded the system to other munitions and other systems, such as cargo-delivering drones. The system has completed three phases of testing: demonstration on the C-130 and C-17 with JASSM, command and control testing for retargeting, and validated deployment systems. The system is currently undergoing a phase of testing focused on high-altitude drop, jettison and deconfliction of “operationally relevant payloads and is working toward powered flight tests,” AFRL says.

AMC Commander Gen. Mike Minihan tells Aviation Week that he wants Rapid Dragon’s capability included in everything the command does, largely because of the dilemmas it could create for an enemy.

“Now the adversary has an infinitely higher problem to worry about. [They] don’t need to worry just about the bombers, [they] have to worry about this C-130 and every other C-130 on the planet,” Minihan says. “C-130s can do it. All of our partners and allies fly them, so you can give the adversary an infinite amount of dilemmas that they need to worry about.”

The system also works on C-17s, which are also flown by multiple other allies.

“I’m not saying they would do the same thing, I’m just telling you it’s an effect [that] has a lot of magnitude when you can do those things,” he says.

AMC would not specify where the test took place, just that it was conducted by U.S. forces. Mobility Guardian, which wrapped up July 21, took place at several locations across the Indo-Pacific ranging from Alaska to Australia, with hubs in Hawaii, Guam and Japan.

USAF Tests Palletized Munition System In Pacific | Aviation Week Network

The U.S. Air Force’s Air Mobility Command (AMC) has conducted a successful test of the Rapid Dragon pallet system.
aviationweek.com aviationweek.com
 

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