Agusta A129 variants

Looks like a game of Buckaroo is just about to end!

The A129 and Agusta deserve better recognition for their contribution to the world of attack helicopters. I was quite stunned by the UK General Staff's comments on the subject.

Chris
 
Combat-Master said:
The most up-to-date variant of the 129 platform, modifications by TAI - second phase of T-129 project for Turkish Armed Forces.
Modifications on wings, aft and rear of the platform include Radar Warning Receivers, Radio Frequency Jammers and Laser Warning Receiver
View attachment 637922
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TAI T-129B Phase II , has passed all tests and has entered into serial production. 24 T-129B Phase II helicopters are to be produced for Turkish Armed Forces.

D5A89E76-DA8D-4526-A1B2-297B8669D403.jpeg
 
Philippines to receive some T-129s soon
just curious, does Augusta make any money or anything for T-129s sold?
I am wondering what agreement Augusta has with TAI

www.pna.gov.ph

1st batch of Turkish T129 attack choppers to arrive in December

MANILA – The first batch of the six Turkish-made T129 "ATAK" attack helicopters will arrive in December, Philippine Air Force (PAF) commander Lt. Gen. Allen Paredes said Tuesday night."Deadly...coming this December. The T129 Attack Helicopter of the Philippine Air Force," Paredes said in...
www.pna.gov.ph www.pna.gov.ph
 
helmutkohl said:
Philippines to receive some T-129s soon
just curious, does Augusta make any money or anything for T-129s sold?
I am wondering what agreement Augusta has with TAI

www.pna.gov.ph

1st batch of Turkish T129 attack choppers to arrive in December

MANILA – The first batch of the six Turkish-made T129 "ATAK" attack helicopters will arrive in December, Philippine Air Force (PAF) commander Lt. Gen. Allen Paredes said Tuesday night."Deadly...coming this December. The T129 Attack Helicopter of the Philippine Air Force," Paredes said in...
www.pna.gov.ph www.pna.gov.ph
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Apologies for the late response, haven't exactly been active here.
To answer your question, yes Agusta gets paid in royalties for each unit sold.
 

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- Philippines ordered 6 T-129 and are in negotiation for more.
- Another country not yet named has purchased 6 T-129, which country it is will be made known soon.
- Pakistani T-129 still waiting on approval from US Congress for engine sales.
- Turkish armed forces have received 76 T-129, count will increase to 83 delivered by years end.

2 T-129 delivered to Philippines
1f070867bd25a20d9956ba4993516ac8.jpg
 
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Unless the standard model is already marinized, that will be a major necessity for a aircraft that routinely operates from ships.
 
TomcatViP said:
Extracted from link above:
According to some reports, Germany is already in talks with Leonardo and the Italian MoD about a possible replacement of the German Army’s Eurocopter Tiger helicopters with the AW249.
Click to expand...

!?! o_O
Click to expand...

Germany has been conspicuously absent from the Tiger upgrade program and has been openly looking at alternatives, including Apache and (apparently) the AW249.

ILA 2022: Germany weighs attack helo options

Germany continues to weigh its future attack helicopter requirements, with a decision expected on whether to proceed with the incumbent Airbus Tiger or to procure the...
www.janes.com
 
Twas nice to see the TAI T129 perform month ago at FArnborough (my photos) again

cheers
 

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New photos:

AW249_new-flight_4.jpg


theaviationist.com

New Photos Of The New AW249 Attack Helicopter Emerge As Test Campaign Progresses

A month after the first flight, the testing is progressing to expand the AW249's flight envelope. A month after its first flight, the new Leonardo AW249
theaviationist.com theaviationist.com
 
hesham said:
From Aviation magazine 1987.
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This was the proposed naval attack version to Italian Navy.
It was equipped with a tracking radar and a couple of Marte Sea Killer missiles.

The proposal was dismissed both for financial issues and (mostly) because the Italian Navy decided to acquire the AV-8B Plus.
Indeed the A-129 Mangusta made it the same onboard the Garibaldi aircraft carrier, during the operation United Shield back in 1995.

a129garibalid.jpg
 
Pioneer said:
I can not but think of all that money and time wasted on the US Army LHX program.
I always thought the A-129 & A-129 LBH (A-139) as a perfect cost effective answer to the US Army’s need – but then again it was not American – was it!
Just think these two variants in answer to the LHX could have been in operational service a decade ago or more!!!!!

Regards
Pioneer
Click to expand...
I just came across this thread… actually the US SOF were interested at some point in getting a small batch of A129 when LHX folded, Agusta teamed with Martin Marietta and presented a series of proposals meeting the requirements (which included quick disassembly to fit into a C130 and quick reassembly, and esternal operator transport), but it did not go through
 
Fly101 said:
Pioneer said:
I can not but think of all that money and time wasted on the US Army LHX program.
I always thought the A-129 & A-129 LBH (A-139) as a perfect cost effective answer to the US Army’s need – but then again it was not American – was it!
Just think these two variants in answer to the LHX could have been in operational service a decade ago or more!!!!!

Regards
Pioneer
Click to expand...
I just came across this thread… actually the US SOF were interested at some point in getting a small batch of A129 when LHX folded, Agusta teamed with Martin Marietta and presented a series of proposals meeting the requirements (which included quick disassembly to fit into a C130 and quick reassembly, and esternal operator transport), but it did not go through
Click to expand...
Thanks for that interesting snippet of information Fly101.
Would love to read more on this 'U.S. SOF interest in the A129 when LHX folding!

Regards
Pioneer
 
Pioneer said:
I can not but think of all that money and time wasted on the US Army LHX program.
I always thought the A-129 & A-129 LBH (A-139) as a perfect cost effective answer to the US Army’s need – but then again it was not American – was it!
Just think these two variants in answer to the LHX could have been in operational service a decade ago or more!!!!!

Regards
Pioneer
Click to expand...
What exactly dose the a-129 do that a super cobra couldn't? LHX was at lest stealthy so had a survivability advantage. It isn't even newer really thanks the the ah-1Z.
 
Cjc said:
Pioneer said:
I can not but think of all that money and time wasted on the US Army LHX program.
I always thought the A-129 & A-129 LBH (A-139) as a perfect cost effective answer to the US Army’s need – but then again it was not American – was it!
Just think these two variants in answer to the LHX could have been in operational service a decade ago or more!!!!!

Regards
Pioneer
Click to expand...
What exactly dose the a-129 do that a super cobra couldn't? LHX was at lest stealthy so had a survivability advantage. It isn't even newer really thanks the the ah-1Z.
Click to expand...
Cjc, what the A129 and A129 LBH offered in the original LHX competition was it's ability to fill the US Army's so-called operational requirement in both a timely and cost effective manner.
One can not and should not forget that the US Army's wet dream soon went south in terms of massive cost blowouts and IOC, to the point that to save the original conceived program to replace AH-1, OH-58/OH-6 and UH-1's, they elected to scrap the utility transport component of the LHX.
As to your 'What exactly does the A129 do that the Super Cobra couldn't?' Well the A129 for all intent and purposes is a newer design; it is smaller and lighter and cheaper.
Ironically, in the end the US Army and the American taxpayer ended up with very little for the stupendous money [US$6.9 billion] spent on the LHX for what?
If this wasn't bad enough, as you would appreciate, the US Army then tried to compensate its utter failings by initiating its Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter program; resulting in the Bell ARH-70, itself a non-stealth design being selected and developed. With much irony, on 16 October 2008, the US Army again cancelled this program, reportedly due to cost overruns on its development.
With much irony, the US Army specified that the ARH concept would use commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) technology - another simple and cost effective solution would have been a derivative of the Agusta/AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta.......

Now there's the time old fallback argument that 'the LHX/Comanche program wasn't a complete and utter waste of time and money, on the grounds of 'the technology derived from it was implemented into other programs.....'. Well in truth, I don't buy that and only Defence would get away with such convoluted argument and justification for such ineptness.


Regards
Pioneer
 
Pioneer said:
Cjc said:
Pioneer said:
I can not but think of all that money and time wasted on the US Army LHX program.
I always thought the A-129 & A-129 LBH (A-139) as a perfect cost effective answer to the US Army’s need – but then again it was not American – was it!
Just think these two variants in answer to the LHX could have been in operational service a decade ago or more!!!!!

Regards
Pioneer
Click to expand...
What exactly dose the a-129 do that a super cobra couldn't? LHX was at lest stealthy so had a survivability advantage. It isn't even newer really thanks the the ah-1Z.
Click to expand...
Cjc, what the A129 and A129 LBH offered in the original LHX competition was it's ability to fill the US Army's so-called operational requirement in both a timely and cost effective manner.
One can not and should not forget that the US Army's wet dream soon went south in terms of massive cost blowouts and IOC, to the point that to save the original conceived program to replace AH-1, OH-58/OH-6 and UH-1's, they elected to scrap the utility transport component of the LHX.
As to your 'What exactly does the A129 do that the Super Cobra couldn't?' Well the A129 for all intent and purposes is a newer design; it is smaller and lighter and cheaper.
Ironically, in the end the US Army and the American taxpayer ended up with very little for the stupendous money [US$6.9 billion] spent on the LHX for what?
If this wasn't bad enough, as you would appreciate, the US Army then tried to compensate its utter failings by initiating its Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter program; resulting in the Bell ARH-70, itself a non-stealth design being selected and developed. With much irony, on 16 October 2008, the US Army again cancelled this program, reportedly due to cost overruns on its development.
With much irony, the US Army specified that the ARH concept would use commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) technology - another simple and cost effective solution would have been a derivative of the Agusta/AgustaWestland A129 Mangusta.......

Now there's the time old fallback argument that 'the LHX/Comanche program wasn't a complete and utter waste of time and money, on the grounds of 'the technology derived from it was implemented into other programs.....'. Well in truth, I don't buy that and only Defence would get away with such convoluted argument and justification for such ineptness.


Regards
Pioneer
Click to expand...
Comanche was terminated, in part, out of necessity to modify all of the existing Army aviation platforms to function in the hot/high conditions of Afghanistan and Iraq. When the, then, Vice Chief of Staff of the Army (GEN Cody) terminated the program he received Congressional permission to retain the funds for the other aviation platforms. This was actually was quiet something as everyone in the Army was trying to adapt to the new mission set.
The other replacement programs did not make it in part due to the Army almost panic laced efforts to accelerate the byzantine acquisition methods and because the Ivy League accountants in the DoD, wearing their Brooks Brothers suits could not comprehend that aero scouting was different than looking through a soda straw from 20K feet. But it is correct to say that the ARH was terminated due to funds. Fighting a war is expensive.
As to the A129, it was likely not any problems with actual platform, which by all accounts is a good bird, but the integration of the classified systems onto the aircraft with all of the regulations about allowing access to foreign industry.
 
Kiltonge said:
One of the early hindrances with selling the A129 were the Gem engines; hearsay is that the engine design was very highly stressed and required a lot of maintenance. This reputation was apparently well known in the mid-1980s and was one of the killers of the WG.30.


My layman's opinion is that Agusta would have been better starting the A129 design with the PT6T Twin-Pac with which they were already familiar in the 212.
Click to expand...
Very interesting and perceptive analogy my dear Kiltonge!

Regards
Pioneer
 

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