Aermacchi Projects

[giorgio]

thanks guys!!!!!!!! A rich harvest of news (at least for me...)

Giorgio

 

[Hood]

In Chris Chant's 'Air Forces of the World' 1990 he mentions that Aermacchi in 1988 was studying a variant of the MB.339 with twin Pratt & Whitney Canada JT15D turbofans mounted over the wings, the designation may have been MB.339D. I'm assuming tha the fuselage would have been very different aft of the cockpit, perhaps more akin to the IA63 Pampa or Alphajet in looks?
Was this a private venture or possibly for an export order/ JPATS?

 

[Skybolt]

mmm, will check.

 

[hesham]

Yes it is a real project,

for the MB.339D twin-engined variant,please see;

http://www.cofe.ru/avia/A/A-11.htm

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1988/1988%20-%200340.html

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the second version of Macchi MB.328 project.

 

[hesham]

Anther project to Aermacchi was MB.336 jet trainer.

Sorry for that mistake,


but I got it from old magazine,but the correct from Wikipedia;


MB.336 was single seat ground attack aircraft developed from MB.326,later re-named MB.326K.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aermacchi_MB-326

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Aermacchi MB.328 Model.

 

[hesham]

Also from Aerei magazine,


here is the two variants to Aermacchi M.311 (side-by-side and tandem two-seat)
aircraft.

 

[hesham]

From JP4 magazine of 1975,

here is a variants of Aermacchi MB.338.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a cutaway for MB.328 and a 3-view to MB.320J Project (Jet variant).

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Aermacchi%20world/Aermacchi%20world%201983%2002.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a more Info about Macchi MB-312 & MB-314.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201947%2007.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a drawing to Macchi MB.310;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201946%2006.pdf

And we must merge those topics;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,17080.msg164490.html#msg164490

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a drawing to Macchi MB.314;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201948%2002.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a small Info about Macchi MB.322,it was a twin engined short haul airliner Project, maybe with jet engines,also need confirm.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Alata/Alata%201951%2005.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a small Info about Aermacchi MB.321,a two seat primary trainer Project,
which was abandoned in favour of Fokker S.11.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Alata/Alata%201951%2004.pdf

 

[Hood]

By 1995 Aermacchi with Dassault and Daimler-Benz Aerospace was working on the TS-21 training system. This was a study for a next-generation integrated training system for NATO air forces. Part of the rationale was to reduce training costs./
Does anyone know any more details? Was this purely a ground-based simulator study or did it involve an aircraft study as well?

 

[hesham]

Yes,that was PTS-2000 & TS-2000 Program.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

in JAWA 1947,there was an Info about MB.307,can anyone provide us with
all its data and what was it ?.

 

[TinWing]

Re: Aermacchi Supersonic Trainer? PTS 2000? Before the M-346 and Mako?

Ok, it took a while, and I'm convinced I have a lot of other material reagrding this topic. the problem is to find it.
Anyway, this is the story. After Aeronautica Militare chose the MB-339 design for an advanced trainer (the other was the more interesting MB-338), Bazzocchi started to think on a successor. In 1985 he drafted the AT-X2 (frst image), a canard delta with lateral intakes. Recognizing the potential of the aircraft Bazzocchi evolved in 1986 it in a advanced supersonic trainer (a new Talon) the AT-X2A, first with a middle wing, side intakes (second image), and then exploring a low wing, ventral intake configuration (a small EFA or EAP or the hell the project was named back then),. You see it in the third image. Finally, in 1987, tha configuration returned to the middle wing, lateral intakes, and was named ATX (echoing the AMX). All those project were canard configurations. This projects were frozen for lack of interest. Bazzocchi retired and in middle-to-late 1990's In late '80s Aermacchi entered an agreement with Dornier to develop an advanced trainer for European air forces, capable to merge in one aircraft the advanced phase and the pre-operational one (this is normally done on two seat versions of supersonic first line aircraft and introduce the pupil to supersonic flight etc. muinus the combat and specific first-line features).
This is the PTS-2000, an evolution of the ATX minus the canard and with a larger wing.

Here's a chronology from a French language website: "
Aermacchi AT-X2 : 1ere variante (1985), non supersonique. Jamais construit.
Aermacchi AT-X2A : 2e variante (1986), supersonique. Jamais construite.
Aermacchi ATX : 3e variante (1987), jamais construite. Un des derniers projets de Bazzocchi.
Aermacchi PTS-2000 : Version finale, basée sur l'ATX. Jamais construite mais évolua en M-346."
https://www.aviationsmilitaires.net/v2/base/view/Model/2352.html

I don't know if any more information has surfaced, as it now seems unlikely that we'll ever see the "Italian Secret Projects" book that was nearly 10 years ago?

 

[hesham]

Amazing find TinWing.

 

[hesham]

in JAWA 1947,there was an Info about MB.307,can anyone provide us with
all its data and what was it ?.

From JAWA 1947,here is a small Info about MB.307,a twin engined four-seat low-wing
light monoplane,maybe remained a Project only ?.

 

[Ingraman]

From AMI (Italian Air Force) magazine

 

[hesham]

From AMI (Italian Air Force) magazine

Welcome aboard Ingraman,

but what was this in that magazine ?.

 

[Ingraman]

It was just a part in a major article about M346 in service and the TX proposal. In short it says that Aermacchi started in 1985 the development of an advanced trainer to prepare pilots for 4th gen fighters. They tried contacts with many govs until 1991, but no interest was shown for the proposal.
After that they started collaboration with Yakovlev for Yak-130.

 

[hesham]

Thank you Ingraman,

and you can upload any pictures and send them from the bottom below,that's better.

 

[netfires]

As I understand it Aermacchi became involved in the Advanced European Jet Pilot Training (AEJPT) program when it started in 1996. I wonder where that fits into the ATX > PTS-2000 > M-346 chronology especially since they eventually submitted the M-346 for that program before it died in 2012. Was Aeromacchi working on two different trainer initiatives at the same time or was its cooperation with Yakovlev intended to produce an aircraft suitable for AEJPT???

 

[hesham]

From Ailes 23/11/1962.

 

[hesham]

here is a small Info about Macchi MB.322,it was a twin engined short haul airliner Project,
maybe with jet engines,also need confirm.

From Aviation magazine 1954;

The Macchi MB.322 had not a jet engines,all details about it is here.

 

[hesham]

Aerei Nella Storia 61,

here is an early drawing to MB.324,and a strange drawing to MB.323,
also a jet fighter Project ?!,maybe early allocated,also a hint for MB.309
as a Fighter Project ?.

 

[Petrus]

Aerei Nella Storia 61,

here is an early drawing to MB.324,and a strange drawing to MB.323,
also a jet fighter Project ?!,maybe early allocated,also a hint for MB.309
as a Fighter Project ?.

From the same source.

8-61.png in Hesham's post:
The MB.323 (1950) was to have four 20mm cannon, DH Ghost engine (1900 kp, according to the Italian magazine). Dimensions: wingspan 9.76 m, length 11.50 m, height 3.22 m.

Nb. later the designation "MB.323" was reused for an actually built piston-engined training aircraft.

10-61.png:
The MB.324 (1951) was a derivative of the above-mentioned MB.323, with the same armament and the Ghost engine. It has impressive nose-mounted 'sonda anemometrica' (I feel it is a Pitot tube in Italian), so its lenght increased to 13.585 m.

7-61.png:
The MB.324 (1953) was quite a new design. Its undercarriage retracted into the fuselage instead of wings (as in MB.323 and the Ghost-engined MB.324). The aircraft was to have the RR Avon engine (3300 kp). Dimensions: wingspan 9.76 m, length 13.40 m, height 3,62 m. Empty weight 4210 kg, all-up weight 6120 kg.

The source gives no info on projected performance of those designs.

Piotr

 

[Pioneer]

I've seen references to a MB-340 CAS aircraft that was said to resemble a smaller A-10 and powered by two M45H engines like the HFB 614 used.

Yes, and like the A-9/A-10 'AX' designs, it looks like the MB-341 was built around its gun.

Regards
Pioneer

 

[hesham]

From Aviation magazine 1976.

 

[archipeppe]

From Aviation magazine 1976.

A clear forerunner of the actual AMX...

 

[hesham]

From AE 86,

here is a hint to MB.312 and MB.321.

 

[hesham]

From Interavia 1960,

for this competition,the Aerfer submitted A.150,whay about Macchi design ?.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/aerfer-airliner-and-transport-projects.1262/

 

[hesham]

For those, who have no access to M.B.330 drawings, here come two different layouts, the M.B.330 and the M.B.330B.

M.B.330.gif & M.B.330.jpg => “Der Flieger“ 11/1964 (page 278)

M.B.330B.gif => ”The MB.330B business jet, one of several [is this a reference to the M.B.328 and M.B.329?] Aermacchi studies in this area.“ / “AIR Enthusiast” No. 51 (page 35) / COPYRIGHT: Aermacchi via Roy Braybrook

Can anybody help with illustrations of the M.B.328 and M.B.329?

Btw, AE # 51 shows two different concepts of the Aermacchi M.B.334 regional aircraft, one is more conventional with rear jet engines, the other one is equipped with pusher turboprops on both sides of the rear fuselage.

From Air Pictorial 1963.

 

[hesham]

From Aeroplane 1961.

 

[riggerrob]

From Aeroplane 1961.

Canadair built a similar navigation trainer based upon a CT-114 Tutor jet trainer. The nose radome looked like it was stolen from a CF-104 Starfighter.
The RCAF also did a similar conversion to a C47 Dakota transport … also to teach radar operator navigator skills.

 

[Jason Dykstra (Wyvern)]

Does anyone have better quality scans of the following image: