3D printing

[pedrospe]

Nice models,they look almost perfect,which 3d printer are you using?






best regards


Pedro

 

[tiikki]

Nice models,they look almost perfect,which 3d printer are you using?






best regards


Pedro

The clear one is done with ProJet 3510SD with Crystal material.
The project has been slower than anticipated as the printer was broken for a while.


Tuomo

 

[GTX]

Looking good - what scale are those?

 

[PlanesPictures]

1 : 72

 

[PlanesPictures]

VA-559 - ready for printing. Scale 1/72

 

[Thorvic]

Looking good

 

[GTX]

Given it is to be 3D printed it should also be possible to do in other scales. Correct?

 

[tiikki]

Given it is to be 3D printed it should also be possible to do in other scales. Correct?

Yes and no. There is a minimum thickness that can be produced reliable and there is a maximum size which can be fitted to the machine.

 

[PlanesPictures]

Yes and no. For example models in scale 1/72 and 1/48. Ratio is 1.5 and volume of used material is 1.5*1.5*1.5 = 3.375. Then max lengh/width of printed parts is 20-30 cm and it is possible you will need extra cut enlarged model. Some derating for model in scale 1/48 built from model 1/72 will be usefull but I suppose only 20% work over what will save some material. But it is globaly possible with some extra work

 

[pedrospe]

Looks promising,the best of luck to you.




best regards


Pedro

 

[GTX]

Thanks. I would urge you to consider designing for 1/48 as this will increase your market.

 

[PlanesPictures]

VA-559 is good candidate? I'm curious, too for result

 

[PlanesPictures]

VA-559 in scale 1/72. For more details ask Tuomo

 

[Thorvic]

That looks rather nice, so how do we purchase on of these 1/72 VA-559s ?

 

[PlanesPictures]

Contact member kiikki from this topic for VA-559 or Saab Project 1418 in scale 1/72. For Vought AI-0505K in scale 1/72 ((http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,24827.0.html) contact me. If you prefer VA-559 or AI-0505K in scale 1/48 contact me, too.

I don't like scale 1/144 but for collections of some unique and large designs I will try to do it, too as these Myasistchew M-56s

 

[PlanesPictures]

For GTX, pls contact me on jozefgatial@gmail.com. I'm not able answer on your message due to some server error

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Thats the first 3D printed model I've seen where the surface quality looks good. Very nice work!

 

[Stargazer]

I'm amazed at what this technology enables to do and how it's become accessible in only a handful of years.

Of course I'm only an onlooker, don't intend to start printing 3D stuff any time soon, but it's fascinating.

I have a question here, though I can kind of guess the answer to it: with the advent of this technology, and the remarkable results seen in these photos, are we witnessing the beginning of the end for resin models? Because obviously the parts are stronger, better molded, better adjusted and can be printed indefinitely (no need for a mold that wears out after a few hundred examples have been produced).

 

[Riverghost]

are we witnessing the beginning of the end for resin models? Because obviously the parts are stronger, better moulded, better adjusted and can be printed indefinitely (no need for a mold that wears out after a few hundred examples have been produced).

I don't think your going to see resin ever 'disappear', but more likely get used as has been spoken about earlier in this thread, to create short volume runs from your 3d printed part. The cost per gramme for sls powder, or photosensitive resin, can be quite high!

The hidden side of 3d printing most don't see is the time involved. there could be as much as 18-20 hours worth of printing to get all the components together for a 1/72 scale design (again all dependent on hardware), excluding any time to clean up the printed model, remove from raft, detach supports etc. Unless you have very prestigious clients, you probably would want to use resin casting on your perfected 'master', to reduce your hours per model. the upside is you can just remake your mould from your master when it wears.

However, there are newer printers than are supposed to be 'changing the game' - printing detailed models that would previously have taken 10 hours in a matter of minutes using some very clever technical kung-fu. However a commercial ready to buy product has yet to materialise (Im eagerly awaiting!! haha)

 

[sferrin]

The cost per gramme for sls powder, or photosensitive resin, can be quite high!

We looked at getting some rather large parts printed for training purposes (before our tooling was in-house and parts were made). The quoted price for printed parts was more expensive than the composite parts themselves AND the tooling, labor, etc.

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks a lot for your answers, Riverghost and sferrin.

I'm sure the costs will drop within 2-3 years, given the speed of technological advances and the success of this technology. Then perhaps the cost of the parts will make it more worthwhile to get your model done in photosensitive resin! I really can envision a future where most model kits will disappear from the stands, and instead people will purchase online a template to get their model printed at home. That can lead to a lot more personalization of the kits, because you will only purchase the rafts that are of interest to you, and also the feedback from users will enable the companies to constantly improve their models without having to reissue them. Plus think of all the packaging saved... neat for the planet too! (okay, the old model shops and opening of the model boxes have a flavor that online purchase will never match, but that's the way of progress I guess...).

 

[Riverghost]

Perhaps a good way that model shops could survive in this brave new world would be if they also invested into 3d printing. clients come to them with the CAD/Model data, they then print and clean up for a fee.

I truly am interested in how the SLA style systems are going to develop. FDM has to a degree reached its 'peak' in terms of your quality vs speed of print, trying to get any toolhead moving over 500mm/s whilst retaining accuracy is going to start to become cost counterproductive imho, whereas there is no such hard limit with these SLA systems due to the lack of any moving 'head'.

What's going to make these SLA printers truly a hobby device is making them as user friendly as current FDM printers. SLA is MESSY, and SMELLS FUNKY. it requires you to use suitable protective gloves etc, and you will find that sticky resin residue everywhere. the company that allows you to just fill it up, and take out a relatively 'clean' part, with integrated odor control / sealed vat area - that will make someone a pretty penny.

 

[Stargazer]

Perhaps a good way that model shops could survive in this brave new world would be if they also invested into 3d printing. clients come to them with the CAD/Model data, they then print and clean up for a fee.

Interesting you should say this, because that is close to the way I initially envisioned the world of music stores when the first CD burners appeared. I imagined people would soon be going to their favorite store, and if they didn't want to buy the entire albums, but only a selection of songs, or if they wanted to make a compilation of their favorite songs from different albums, they'd go to the counter and get their own personalized CD burnt for them on the spot. Of course I had no idea that the manufacturers would make this technology readily available to all... I'm sure that if this scheme had been pursued instead of allowing just anyone to make digital copies of their CDs at home, the music industry would not have been in such a mess, because people would have continued to buy the stuff.

 

[PlanesPictures]

Only a few minutes ago I sent it to print. I look forward

 

[Hobbes]

Perhaps a good way that model shops could survive in this brave new world would be if they also invested into 3d printing. clients come to them with the CAD/Model data, they then print and clean up for a fee.

It'd be difficult for them to compete with large-volume 3D print houses like Shapeways.

 

[Sundog]

It'd be difficult for them to compete with large-volume 3D print houses like Shapeways.

My guess is they would link with businesses like Shapeways, have their own store front there, since anyone is able to, and you would basically pay to have their model printed and shipped to you.


To me, what makes this interesting, is you could have option pricing. One for the basic airframe, one for a weapons kit, flight crew, support vehicles. They could even make it so you could easily buy different variant options.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Yes- it would be no more costly (aside from the initial modelling) to have lots of versions, like P.1121 prototype, production, 2 seat naval strike, etc.

 

[riggerrob]

Yes, merely e-mailing print files to a local fab shop is the future. 3D printers are still too fussy for casual home users.

Sellers of CNC plywood boat kits are currently reluctant to e-mail out cutting files until copyright law catches up to tooling. They are afraid that a customer will buy cut files (and a licence to build one) then re-sell them to hundreds of black market customers.

I can foresee a future where you bring your favourite garden gnome - to your local UPS Store - for scanning. Tomorrow your distant aunt receives an exact copy printed in any one of dozens of stock colours. For an additional fee, UPS will “fix” cracks and faded paint on the printed copy.

 

[Foo Fighter]

At which point do the home use 3d printers become a credible threat for the likes of Airfix etc. What can they do to hang on to their business? At some stage there will have to be a sea change in rights and it can only cut the freedoms of modelers everywhere. With the use of 3d scanners this will be even more convoluted rather like the digital music rights etc.

 

[Richard N]

3D printed parts are useful for prototypes or small part runs, but have nowhere near the surface finish or quick production cycles of injection molded parts.

The surface finish of injection parts can be smooth as glass with fine panel lines and rivet detail while printed parts are covered with grow or printing lines and have to be hand or chemical finished to get a surface that is smooth but nowhere near the quality of an injection part.

Injection part cycle times are measured in seconds to minutes where the mold closes and is injected with molten plastic, cooled with water run through passages in the mold, and finally ejected from the mold. Printed parts take from hours to days. 3D printing is okay for a single part or prototype, but impractical for most production.

Printed parts for production are practical for small runs of large parts where the run is too small to be worth investing in molds or tooling that would be feasible for a larger number of parts.

Airfix has nothing to fear from 3D printers.

 

[merriman]

… Airfix has nothing to fear from 3D printers.

Not yet.

But, within a short time robot printing/cutting of parts will equal the finish and production time of injection molding (with the ability to 'pre-paint' those parts already demonstrated on printed parts). In SF circles they refer to such machines as, Replicators.

The day is quickly approaching when no one will have the ability or inclination to use their hands or brains. And on that day the lights go out, so will we. No craftsmen, no survival. There won't even be a spoke-shave to save us.

Brave new world, indeed.

David

 

[Orionblamblam]

The day is quickly approaching when no one will have the ability or inclination to use their hands or brains.

Not necessarily. When 3D printers/fabber/replicators can truly replace pretty much any other means of making something, the urge to create will still exist; it will just be expressed differently... via creating stuff on the computer. I've seen a lot of artists who "sculpt" some pretty amazing digital figures, and with modern and projected input devices, the techniques are actually not dissimilar from sculpting in clay. With augmented reality glasses and input gloves that feature sensory feedback, it will be a *lot* like physical sculpting... just with the ability to hit "undo."

And, sure, if the computers go down, there will be trouble. But if there's a massive EMP strike or a Carrington Event, we'll have bigger things to worry about than a lack of new spaceship model kits.

 

[sferrin]

The day is quickly approaching when no one will have the ability or inclination to use their hands or brains.

Not necessarily. When 3D printers/fabber/replicators can truly replace pretty much any other means of making something, the urge to create will still exist; it will just be expressed differently... via creating stuff on the computer. I've seen a lot of artists who "sculpt" some pretty amazing digital figures, and with modern and projected input devices, the techniques are actually not dissimilar from sculpting in clay. With augmented reality glasses and input gloves that feature sensory feedback, it will be a *lot* like physical sculpting... just with the ability to hit "undo."

And, sure, if the computers go down, there will be trouble. But if there's a massive EMP strike or a Carrington Event, we'll have bigger things to worry about than a lack of new spaceship model kits.

Yep. The stuff they can do in ZBrush is pretty mind-blowing.

 

[royabulgaf]

Orionblamen- Regarding the artist. There was an SF short story written 50+ years ago about an artist that worked with a voice-controlled 3d printer. He created sculptures that were anti-gravity, but only when inebriated.

 

[Hobbes]

The day is quickly approaching when no one will have the ability or inclination to use their hands or brains

That's rubbish. Currently, the world is already full of products you can purchase, yet lots of people still enjoy making their own. Take my hobby for instance: I could buy premade diecast scale models, but instead I build models from kits or I scratchbuild because what I enjoy is the process of creating something.

 

[Foo Fighter]

The hobby builders may just benefit, look at the types of model that are being sold, rarely are they large run models obscure types or experimental types but if the home user can create the parts themselves, we may see an upsurge in the unusual. Airfix et al may not like it but WE might just get a win. Paper models may even get a resurgence.

 

[Hobbes]

The hobby builders may just benefit

We already do. Several of my scratchbuild projects over the past few years have a few printed parts in them. I'm selling those parts too.

 

[robertino]

which 3d program you use,
and on which printer you print

thx

 

[Hobbes]

I draw in SolidWorks, and use Shapeways.com for printing.

 

[robertino]

I draw in SolidWorks, and use Shapeways.com for printing.

thank you

you do not have your own printer