McDonnell-Douglas Hypersonic projects from the 60s and 70s

[flateric]

Captures from Discovery Channel's The Real Flying Saucers documentary

 

[Sundog]

Nice captures. What I find most interesting is the first picture, as it's the first time I've seen a model of that fighter in the foreground, having seen the design in a few AIAA papers of which the three view is posted somewhere on this site. I find the model in the background really interesting as well. It looks like one of the design studies into a supercruise fighter/interceptor.

 

[hesham]

Dear flateric,

in your first picture,what are the two aircraft models
infront and behind the man ?.

 

[flateric]

Don't know. That one in the front is definitely one of MDC supersonic cruise fighter studies from 80s, what is behind Paul Czysz - I don't know for sure. Note that front model has two vertical tails.

 

[LowObservable]

Cszyz with a C.
We go back a ways. A long story for which, like the Giant Rat of Sumatra, the world is not prepared.

 

[flateric]

Oh, those Slavian names - they are so complicated)))

 

[LowObservable]

Czysz....

After 30 years you'd think I'd get it right.

 

[flateric]

Hmm...interesting where are Paul Czysz and LO on the picture?

 

[flateric]

Dear flateric,
in your first picture,what are the two aircraft models
infront and behind the man ?.

Of course, one in the front was here on the forum - McDonnell Douglas AMDAC Supersonic Cruise study, posted by Overscan
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,133.msg728.html#msg728

 

[Skybolt]

Has the Hypersonic Reconaissance concept anything to do with Isinglass? A competitor to the GD design ?

 

[flateric]

No, these are two different tales.

 

[flateric]

Model on the desk in front of Czysz is MCAIR Model 269-F2, behind him Model 269-E-something, E2 presumably.

 

[XP67_Moonbat]

Hey guys,

Sorry to go off on a tangent but has there been a thread about Isinglass on here before? Another minor mystery for me right there with the fates of the XF-90. Again, nothing I could really find online besides a mention here or there. But that's it. Maybe somebody could post a link. Because, again, it's just one more thing to make me go "Hmm". Thank you.

 

[flateric]

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/382

Forum has quite powerful search engine...

 

[avatar]

Just as a reminder .... prof czysz features prominently on the American Anti-gravity site. This site also hosts a lot of pdfs on the ayacks/ ajax program and indeed on MHD.
Thanks
Here is the link
www.americanantigravity.com

 

[airrocket]

Mach 6 methane interceptor Aurora precursor.

 

[flateric]

Doug, why should we think that this MACAIR design is an 'Aurora precursor'?

 

[airrocket]

This design and other similar blended body concepts date from the early sixties. Long before rumors of the mythical Aurora began to circulate. Aside from a possible X-24C linage these early thoroughly researched MDC designs embody all of the technologies required to produce an Aurora type vehicle.

 

[Tuomasn]

So can anyone give any more background info about these two neat-looking hypersonic designs?

 

[airrocket]

As Flateric stated correctly these are early FDL McAir, MCD, McDonnell designs from 1962 to 1972. First one a M6 LNG/Methane interceptor. Second was a M12 cruise design slush hydrogen. Then the HSVS strike RECCE in this post powered by two XLR-129 rocket motors and Marquardt scramjets. This is merely the tip of the iceberg. When one mentions Aurora many assume Lockheed SW, however do not rule out MCD. These designs featured sharp LE and utilized superior metal TPS similar to X-33 with heat pipe LE. All weather TPS back in the sixties! MCD had the tech and Marquardt had the air breathing propulsion. All years prior to Aurora rumors. So the tech existed years ago to produce the Aurora. But did anyone . . . Quien Sabe!

 

[flateric]

Some insights on these MDC studies may be made after reading honorable NASP man Paul Czysz papers - don't forget to check all the links to his papers

http://www.americanantigravity.com/articles/574/1/Aurora--Beyond/Page1.html

Doug (aka Airrocket) seems to have many interesting stuff on these but not shure if we can ask you to share 'em...

 

[Tuomasn]

Thank you very much to you both.

Interestingly, the designs somewhat remind me of the "Hypersonic interceptor" from this thread: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1041. The title says Boeing, but later in the thread they are called generic designs. Could they be McDD related instead? (The hypersonic airliner resembles McDD NASP proposals, too.)

 

[flateric]

Meteorit, this surely was Boeing paper...but hypersonic aerodynamics dictate similar designs.
If this paper was not from 1984, but from late 90s, we could think that it could be dark-roasted Macair heritage, but not in this case. As was mentioned in the NASP thread, spatula nose (and overall configuration) for 90s Boeing dual-fuel hypersonic vehicles series (DF) one of examples of things that had MDC origins.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/325

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/296

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/250

 

[Tuomasn]

One more question... can anyone give any dimensional info about the Mach 12 vehicle(s)?

I also posted a couple of questions to the other thread I linked.

 

[airrocket]

As a Secret Projects newbie I certainly enjoyed links posted above.

Flateric is correct 2D hyper inlet and associated physics drives dissimilar origins towards similar design constraints. Even the Soviet designs from the same general time arrive at similar conclusions. Given the extent of corporate acquisition and mergers over the past thirty years the linage of the early designs now reside with either Boeing or LockMart.

Recent innovations and streamline tracing techniques are now reviving the 3D inlet of the past. So the generic 2D delta wedge shaped Aurora we’re so familiar with somewhat obsolete by recent trends. My main point above was to show just enough to ensure MCD, and likes of Mel Buck, Al Draper, Fred Billig and the current "YODA" (wise master and teacher) of hypersonics Paul Czysz receive just credit.

 

[flateric]

GRC C Number: C-1986-2702
Date archived: 04-24-1986
http://grcimagenet.grc.nasa.gov/share/scr_stillimages_detail.cfm?year=1986&cnumber=2702&c_numbertextdisplay=C-1986-2702&cnumber=2702&year=1986&txttitle=&date=1986&max_hits=100&dis_opts=shoicons&startrow=0&maxcnumber=3712&maxcyear=1942

Something actual or another artist concept (too accurate details to be it, in fact)?

 

[Orionblamblam]

A McDonnell-Douglas Mach 12 research aircraft proposal, manned with five RL-10 engines. It's something I've been trying to dig up more on for a while.

 

[LowObservable]

Definitely a Macs idea; note scramjets as well.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Definitely a Macs idea; note scramjets as well.

This was one of those "do anything" concepts. The basic vehicle was a rocket-powered lifting body for "go-fast" research, but it could have additional powerplants nailed to it.

 

[KJ_Lesnick]

What's an RL-10 engine?

 

[sferrin]

What's an RL-10 engine?

Google is your friend.

 

[Lee]

KJ_Lesnick, quoted: "What's an RL-10 engine?"

An H2/O2 engine used on Centaur upper stage launcher. Very reliable and not too expensive. Max thrust about 23,000-24,000 lbs. with nozzle extension and small throat to increase chamber pressure. A lot of experimentation was done on this engine and some of the reports should be on NTRS. They ran it on F2/H2 and it worked, but the whole thing probably needed extensive modifications just to do that.

 

[Tuomasn]

A McDonnell-Douglas Mach 12 research aircraft proposal, manned with five RL-10 engines. It's something I've been trying to dig up more on for a while.

It's interesting how clear the lineage of McDonnell-McDD-Boeing hypersonic designs from the 1960s to the 1990s is. The most obvious change is the 2D inlet, but for me especially the wing/tailplane configuration seems to have remained much the same.

 

[archipeppe]

Another one from the same GRC Image Archive
NASA-Langley hypersonic research airplane design, IDd by Scott here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,250.msg1503.html#msg1503

Thanks Flateric for this nice picture that is quite similiar to my avatar....

 

[Cobra Kebab]

Where did those Boeing(?) sketches that were posted here not long ago end up?

 

[Tuomasn]

Where did those Boeing(?) sketches that were posted here not long ago end up?

Here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1041.0.html

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

From NASA report:

Hypersonic Research Facilities Study Volume I

Hypersonic research facilities study. Volume 1: - NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Assessing research and development in hypersonic aircraft for determining requirements for hypersonic research facilities

ntrs.nasa.gov

Added are AWST scans from Matej.

MDD dedicated technology demonstrator for investigating cruise flight from Mach 3 to 6 and later to Mach 9. Two turbojets are supplemented by one ramjet in the center. Turbojet air from the inlets would be diverted into the ramjet engine in the Mach 1.

AWST, Sept. 17, 1973, pg. 87 and 89

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Mach 12 demonstrator

 

[Tuomasn]

Thanks overscan, nice find. The Mach 12 demostrator seems to be the vehicle depicted above.

Could the moderators please perhaps combine/reorganise these threads? Also, there are related McDonnell designs from post #15 onwards that I think would deserve to rest at 'Postwar Secret Projects' as they are not Aurora fantasies but actual concepts.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Renamed and combined topics.