Jaguar kills off its model line, with no clear plan for the future

Mike Pryce said:

New advert for the branding, repeating Sir William Lyons' view that a Jaguar should be a 'copy of nothing'.

View: https://youtu.be/rLtFIrqhfng?si=46vEmPVDaMdg12RF

Click to expand...

Mike Pryce said:

New advert for the branding, repeating Sir William Lyons' view that a Jaguar should be a 'copy of nothing'.

View: https://youtu.be/rLtFIrqhfng?si=46vEmPVDaMdg12RF

Click to expand...

That was a disquieting sci-fi video of models who looked profoundly uncomfortable and desperately unhappy. Although the Andy Warhol lookalike with the paintbrush did look slightly pleased with himself. Probably just happy for a days work, even ifs it’s the naffest car commercial in recent memory.

TinWing,

Like fashion, cars should do a number of things in terms of design. First, basic functionality. I think most drivers were not looking to buy muscle cars or ready to convert hot rods post-war. Or letting loose on the highway at 150 mph. Messerschmitt produced small and inexpensive cars after the war. In the U.S. in the 1950s, Silver Certificates were in circulation. Prosperity due to heavy defense spending, and the post-war increase in births, existed. The country was on the gold standard.

Men and women could buy very nice clothes for not a lot of money. Car designers would be influenced by jet aircraft design and other trends, but as the TV commercials told us, "See the USA in your Chevrolet." It was about families. It was about fun. The Pontiac GTO from 1963 showed a combination of elements. This was the Great Time Out car.

Next was style and a certain degree of elegance. My parents had the mandatory boy and girl and looked just fine dressed up. There was a universal appeal to civil behavior and patriotism. Most people were on the same page. Men like John DeLorean knew this and could transfer such ideas into metal. Today, there is what I call "directionless blandness" in car design. Attention is being paid to trivia like tail lights and headlights. I can picture people with absolutely no knowledge of design telling designers to "make sure it doesn't look like the old stuff." This to give the illusion of living in "the future."

The High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV; colloquial: Humvee) actually succeeds in terms of function and aesthetics. Far beyond the civilian auto industry.

So what should a Jaguar look like? It should look like a Jaguar. I am aware of buyers being conditioned to only want "something new." The false idea that anything - anything at all - is not your father's (fill in the blank) is false. Of course, improvements that save weight without sacrificing safety or that increase fuel mileage, and similar, are not to be ignored. But the arms race in car design appears to be over. The money managers think they can call the shots. They think they can step into the shoes of creatives. The same in Hollywood. How hard can it be?

A Jaguar should have distinctly British lines. It should appear on the road and command attention. That's a Jaguar.

I think that Jaguar should return to its roots, making small(er) fun cars for people that can afford a second car for the weekend.
Electric or ICE? Doesn't matter, it should be fun above all. Not another SUV....

In the UK Jaguar never shook off its 'Arthur Daley' image from the 80s, selling several generations of the same shape XJ, copies of each other, into the 2010s, then making fatter four-seat Aston Martin DB7-alikes, more copies, designed under Ian Callum.


I have a sneaking suspicion what is really being revived now is Daimler, for a long time just a rebadged Jag (see pic above), but the version of that company from its pre-Jaguar ownership days. They cost more than most cars of their time and looked 'fabulous'.

That seems like the vibe from the new ad too. See below and https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...o-clear-plan-for-the-future.44779/post-727564

Mike Pryce said:

I have a sneaking suspicion what is really being revived now is Daimler

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At one time, I used to travel evrywhere by Daimler . . .




cheers,
Robin.

There's a reason Jaguar bought out Daimler. They were bus(t)!


Will the revival work (with vegans!)?: View: https://x.com/lulumeservey/status/1858906844506226971

TinWing said:

What is a Jaguar supposed to look like?

Click to expand...

IMO, a Jaguar should refer back to the D and E types from the 1950s. Witness all the US cars harkening back to the design cues of their heydays, like the Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, etc.

A body shape that looks like the skin is draped over the wheels. Long hood, short deck.

The new ad seems to be alienating traditional Jaguar buyers online.

Almost like it was meant to.

The old way...

TWR has gone XJS retro - not sure the result looks good...

I wonder what Clarkson will think of all this...

Mike Pryce said:

New advert for the branding, repeating Sir William Lyons' view that a Jaguar should be a 'copy of nothing'.

Click to expand...

Nice ad but, sell it cars ? No
the target customer don't know what it see,
is this Fashion ad ? a Experimental music Video ? Art House ?
This Jaguar rebranding effort look more like Paris fashion show...
...were the target customer drive his wife to next fashion outlet

You Sell Cars Jaguar, CARS !

How to do Car ad RIGHT for target customer:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCIF6JF1O5U

The ad has got millions of views and even Musk has engaged with it. No such thing as bad publicity?

Maybe the'Daimler' approach will go the whole hog too:

My hot take is that 99.95% of all car adds are crap anyway* so who cares?

*Unless you think your car is going to fly, go through a volcano whilst doing 360s on an empty road made out of gummy bears with creepy smiling people in the back seat while not disturbing your iced coffee in the cup holder on a regular basis.

Hood said:

TWR has gone XJS retro - not sure the result looks good...

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... ghastly. Next!

Mike Pryce said:

The ad has got millions of views and even Musk has engaged with it. No such thing as bad publicity?

Maybe the'Daimler' approach will go the whole hog too:

New-look Jaguar's biggest challenge could be its name | Autocar

Bold rebrand has been met with a mixed – but broadly negative – response on social media

www.autocar.co.uk

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Problem is that Jaguar was refused permission to register the "Daimler" name as a trademark in the USA back in 2009. From the verdict:-

"In sum, when we consider the evidence as a whole, we find that the USPTO [US Patent and Trademark Office] has made out a prima facie case that DAIMLER is primarily merely a surname and that applicant has not rebutted this prima facie case

Decision: The refusal to register is affirmed."

So while "The Daimler Motor Company Limited" is still a company registered in the UK as a wholly owned subsidiary of Jaguar Land Rover Limited, wih its ultimate parent being Tata Motors Limited in India, it hasn't traded for some considerable period of time, nor had any other transactions as it has been classified as "dormant".

Wiki has a footnote:-
"Jaguar now shares the rights to the Daimler name with Daimler AG, the German car manufacturer created when DaimlerChrysler was split up. Jaguar agreed terms in 2007 which allow the German company to use the Daimler brand as the title of a trading company, a trade name, or a corporate name – rights it did not hold previously. The renegotiated terms did not affect Jaguar's rights to build Daimler cars. A spokesman for Jaguar said, "The extended usage agreement does not affect either company's existing right to use the Daimler name for a product." "The Times, 28 July 2008.


This is where it gets complicated. Mercedes-Benz AG (formerly Daimler AG between 2007 and 2022) also had an interest in "Daimler Truck" which it spun off as a separate listed company in 2021 and which sells trucks and buses under a variety of different brand names.

I would think it highly unlikely that Tata/JLR would choose to revive the Daimler name even if it still holds the rights to do so, when there has been such a close association of the name with Mercedes-Benz until relatively recent times.

And this is an indication of just how quickly the market is changing. Lotus is scrapping its all electric plans for PHEV.

I don't blame them. Who wants to miss the smell of gasoline while fueling your car? The market does not want change.

I don't think the Daimler name is being revived, but perhaps it's 'brand values' are.

I know they cannot use the name in the US and did not after the 60s - IIRC what were called Daimler in the UK were called Vanden Plas in the US, i.e. the more expensive/luxurious Jaguars.

I think they may still have the right to use that name over there but doubt they would.

This article shows how 'jaGUar' now aim to shock, shed 85% of their existing customers and use bold colours. Gerry McGovern has been scathing in the past about what Jaguar had become. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...admits-wont-appeal-traditional-customers.html

Mike Pryce said:

I don't think the Daimler name is being revived, but perhaps it's 'brand values' are.

I know they cannot use the name in the US and did not after the 60s - IIRC what were called Daimler in the UK were called Vanden Plas in the US, i.e. the more expensive/luxurious Jaguars.

I think they may still have the right to use that name over there but doubt they would.

This article shows how 'jaGUar' now aim to shock, shed 85% of their existing customers and use bold colours. Gerry McGovern has been scathing in the past about what Jaguar had become. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...admits-wont-appeal-traditional-customers.html

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It seems JLR still have the rights to the Vanden Plas name in the US but haven't used it since 2008. For the rest of the world the rights to the name are held by Chinese Govt owned car maker SAIC.

Hood said:

TWR has gone XJS retro - not sure the result looks good...

660bhp V12 TWR Supercat is what happens when you restomod a Jaguar XJS | Auto Express

Uprated Jaguar sports car gets new look, more power and reworked suspension

www.autoexpress.co.uk

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Looks like a Group B rally car...

I want less aggressive aero on a Jag.

Hood said:

TWR has gone XJS retro - not sure the result looks good...

660bhp V12 TWR Supercat is what happens when you restomod a Jaguar XJS | Auto Express

Uprated Jaguar sports car gets new look, more power and reworked suspension

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Click to expand...

To the Catmobile!

Another cancelled Jag. The 'J-Pace' that would have been its largest SUV, a sibling to the Range Rover.

Rhinocrates said:

Another cancelled Jag. The 'J-Pace' that would have been its largest SUV, a sibling to the Range Rover.

Cancelled Jaguar J-Pace revealed in new images | Autocar

Premium SUV, axed three years ago, would have been a sibling of the current Range Rover and Range Rover Sport

www.autocar.co.uk

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If I wanted a British made SUV, I'd buy a Range Rover. I'd need to find one with a higher beltline than the 1990s version a friend had, though. I felt freaking naked with the bottom of the windows just above the seat level...

An observation on congruence in graphic design ideas.

So you may be unsurprised to learn that within the business itself there is lots of derision over the Jaguar rebrand....

For whatever reason, Jaguar the Jaguar brand has lost a lot of value over the years. I've been thinking of buying a third gen XJ for quite a while, but I didn't because I allready have enough cars. A friend offered me the opportunity to purchase a Japan import Jag (12 cylinder, fully equiped less than 50.000 km) for 10.000 €! I have to admit, that happend a couple of years ago, but still a very low price for such car compared to it's competitioners. Every ugly Volvo or boring Audi costs much more!

With that rebranding, the classic Jaguars might become cheaper in future, I might reconcider my plans...

scautomoton said:

So you may be unsurprised to learn that within the business itself there is lots of derision over the Jaguar rebrand....

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It's starting to feel like a repeat of the 'Docker Daimlers' and what they did to BSA. https://www.footmanjames.co.uk/blog/the-docker-daimlers

One problem for JLR as a Group is that in the luxury SUV market it is competing not only with other brands but with itself around the same price points. Jaguar v Land Rover / Range Rover. E-Pace v Evoque / Discovery Sport, F-Pace v Range Rover Sport. Two sets of development costs even if money can be saved via platform sharing. The two brands are just too close to each other.

While VW have multiple brands in the sector sharing platforms the differentiating factor seems to be price point. For example the following all use the MLB/ MLB EVO platform, but from least to most expensive broadly we have:-

VW Touareg
Audi Q7 & Q8
Porsche Cayenne
Bentley Bentayga
Lamborghini Urus

AIUI the Land Rover side of the business has also been encountering problems since the advent of the new generation Defender in 2020, with a range that has expanded. Trendy customers are shifting to that and away from the Velar & Range Rover.

But the whole JLR customer support organisation, at least here in the UK, has been getting some bad press lately over the length of time customer cars have been off the road for due to delays in getting spare parts. The halo Range Rover Sport SV launched late last year and delivered from Feb 2024 costing c£180k has been experiencing some significant mechanical faults.

My neighbours have had an E-Pace for the last couple of years having had a Volvo XC60 that developed mechanical issues thinking the Jaguar would be better. Turns out not to be the case.

None of that does the company's reputation any good.

EwenS said:

One problem for JLR as a Group is that in the luxury SUV market it is competing not only with other brands but with itself around the same price points.

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Which won't be helped by their recent decision to move to a four-brand model: Jaguar, Defender, Discovery and Range Rover.

All of which are selling, err... luxury SUVs.

Time was when it was clear: Jaguars were luxury and sports cars, Range Rovers were luxury off-road SUVs, Discovery was a family off-road SUV, and Defender was a working 4x4.

Though it should be said that the Discovery was introduced to fill a niche created by the Range Rover moving upmarket, so I guess history does rhyme.

A proper resto-mod.


They really should be looking towards stylish design again rather than something a five year old could knock out with crayons. Sadly that is almost a universal these days. Something to do with this topic about banana art?


The bleep news had a so called art expert extolling the value of 'that' and explaining that we will ALL be talking about it in one hundred years, like we will be Constable etc.

I blame the lack of mental wealth facilities, pretty sure the expert would do better with comfortable wallpaper.