UK-Japan-Italy Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP) News & Analysis

[Kiltonge]

Discussion of FCAS, GCAP & Team Tempest with MOD and industry guests from Leonardo and RR.

Some snippets:

1. 250-300 tri-national staff working face to face on a dozen threads of requirements.

2. Will it be BVR only? They don't want to make the mistake of the Phantom and sacrifice agility for performance, but it sounds like it will be BVR-biased with some WVR capability. It will be more of a coordinating quarterback than a 'thug' like Typhoon.

3. Computing capability is critical: carrying the server rack forward to process the vast quantity of data gathered by a deeply-penetrating FCAS network.

4. Range, range and even more range. 'Maybe getting across the Atlantic to America' as an indicator of magnitude.

5. Orpheus engine demonstrator is for FCAS in general, not solely GCAP.

6. Designed to be exportable. Without exports it would still contribute estimated £37 billion to UK economy.

7. Targeting 10 year development period - technology challenge comparable to Apollo?

8. Payload will be about twice that of F-35A.

9. Single-seat WSO rather than single-seat pilot...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izFYZT2fBxo

 

[VTOLicious]

Discussion of FCAS, GCAP & Team Tempest with MOD and industry guests from Leonardo and RR.

Some snippets:
...

8. Payload will be about twice that of F-35A.

I think this is the first the the payload capability was outlined. So we can expect up to 12 AMRAAM-sized missiles internally (If F-35 "sidekick" upgrade is considered).

 

[Ares]

4. Range, range and even more range. 'Maybe getting across the Atlantic to America' as an indicator of magnitude.

Does this mean GCAP's range is more than 5,000km(3,000 miles)?

That's terrifying. RAF could air raid Ural Mountains and JASDF could liberate Tibet, if this is true.

 

[Forest Green]

Surely that would be with drop tanks though?? Ferry range maybe.

 

[totoro]

Double the payload is almost certainly 8 amraams. No one outside lm and internet users gives the sidekick upgrade much thought.

Also, four 1 ton bombs? Unlikely.

Unless, of course, gcap will be sized similarly to j36. Which is also not plausible.

 

[Kiltonge]

Does this mean GCAP's range is more than 5,000km(3,000 miles)?

That's terrifying. RAF could air raid Ural Mountains and JASDF could liberate Tibet, if this is true.

All through the podcast the need for exceptional range is emphasised, to deal with the modern threat, and consequently GCAP / FCAS will be operating well beyond the link back to Wedgetail etc. Hence the need for lots of onboard computing to autonomously handle all the real-time ISR data flooding in from the sensors.

I'm not sure how that fits into the Italian concept of operations, as we've discussed here before. Seems perfect for Aus / Can though.

Another interesting comment was the refusal to call the Typhoon's ECRS2 a 'radar', rather a multifunction array, and that it will play 'thug' to the F-35B 'assassin' ike the Growler does for the F-35C. Suggests quite potent EW through the array.

 

[Ron5]

250-300 tri-national staff working face to face on a dozen threads of requirements.

Jeesh. Buried in millions of requirements - the British disease.

 

[red admiral]

Jeesh. Buried in millions of requirements - the British disease.

Complex systems are going to have lots of requirements. The Industry team will be defining the vast majority of them themselves rather than the customer.

 

[momosir]

Does this mean GCAP's range is more than 5,000km(3,000 miles)?

That's terrifying. RAF could air raid Ural Mountains and JASDF could liberate Tibet, if this is true.

The distance from London to Washington DC is 5,900km.
This is consistent with information that Japan requested an RFI for a 2,200km combat radius before developing its next-generation fighter jet.

 

[FighterJock]

That is the first time that I have seen the GCAP/Tempest's range being 2,200km, I take it that is it's unrefueled range?

 

[Maro.Kyo]

That is the first time that I have seen the GCAP/Tempest's range being 2,200km, I take it that is it's unrefueled range?

Go back a few pages on this thread and you'll find a post about it.

 

[Hydroman]

I have a question, how long is it going to take the GCAP consortium to develop and build this aircraft? I may be wrong but I think this going to take a while, too many partners.

 

[Deino]

I have a question, how long is it going to take the GCAP consortium to develop and build this aircraft? I may be wrong but I think this going to take a while, too many partners.

At least a demonstrator is currently under construction, even if I don’t have a clue on its current Status.

 

[Forest Green]

That is the first time that I have seen the GCAP/Tempest's range being 2,200km, I take it that is it's unrefueled range?

Combat radius not range - it involves a return journey.

 

[TomcatViP]

10 years is what was stated in the podcast. Hence 2035.

 

[Forest Green]

10 years is what was stated in the podcast. Hence 2035.

Is that for ISD or first flight?

 

[timmymagic]

At least a demonstrator is currently under construction, even if I don’t have a clue on its current Status.

There was an 'update' recently...didn't add anything new though. We're still expecting it in 2027.

 

[timmymagic]

Is that for ISD or first flight?

ISD

 

[TomcatViP]

@Forest Green : Probably in service, LRIP, as this was for the development time scale. (dev doesn't stop at prototyping)

( @timmymagic beats me to it)

 

[Toby J]

Double the payload is almost certainly 8 amraams. No one outside lm and internet users gives the sidekick upgrade much thought.

Also, four 1 ton bombs? Unlikely.

Unless, of course, gcap will be sized similarly to j36. Which is also not plausible.

Doesn't it depend on how big FC/ASW is?
Because if it gets near TLAM size for mk41 launch, that puts it near the point of stacking 2 Meteor nose to tail inside the weapon bay, and with the current proportions as shown by MBDA you could probably fit 2 Meteor wide as well.
If GCAP is planned to carry 2xFC/ASW plus 2x Meteor and 2x ASRAAM for self defence, well that's room for 10 Meteor plus ASRAAMs...
MBDA's concept for a fatter but shorter ASRAAM would nearly nullify the need for manoeuvrability by doing the turning for you, in any case, so J-36 size isn't looking too outrageous.