Jaguar kills off its model line, with no clear plan for the future

For a while now I have had the opinion that car 'brands' have had more importance than the actual products, hence the spectacle of a One series BMW being drive around (Badly) on snow chains (On the front wheels because hatchbacks are FWD, right?).

SUV are bigger than the equiuvalent hatchback saloon for similar or less space but folk WANT the SUV. I suppose if the traffic is sluggish, being able to drive rather than just navigate the thing is even less important. Does my logic nut no good at all.

I believe also that bigger brands chased sales in PRC and the folk there apparently like to be driven BY somebody else in their ?car? as it adds gravitas and prestige. Apparently driving themselves is something not done.

With a bit of luck Jaguar will continue to produce continuation and celebvration models (New niche?) with retromod versions so I can while I am still around, continue to see real cars on the roads and I do not mean the cubes that are proomoted as such.

I will confess to being the JC et al "Angry ol' git" clone. Bah humbugs! No, Everton mints thank you by the crutch.
 
Rhinocrates said:
There's an English coachbuilder, David Brown - no relation to the past owner of Aston Matin - who's carved out a small niche catering to customers who want the reliability and sophistication of modern cars with the simplicity and beauty of ones from the 60s. The Speedback takes the mechanicals of a Jaguar XK and clothes it in the body of a DB5 clone and there's a 'remastered' Mini too. I have my fingers crossed for a remade Jag XJ6 or XJ12 as their next project.
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Okay, yes, something like that may work out decently for Jag-you-wahr.



Arjen said:
There are perfectly presentable cars being made today, even BEVs, and some of the old ones were awful. Just zip your lip if you want to diss the HK 500.
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I mean, the classic luxury car where it's nearly silent and you don't feel the road is practically begging for a BEV. That's where I don't scream at people who BEV restomod things like a Rolls or Bentley that was designed in that paradigm.

But I enjoy driving, hearing the engine and the tires on the road. So I want an engine that sounds nice, and suspension feedback and all that...
 
Arjen said:
I am an ol' git but my anger can usually be kept at bay with tea, cookies and a decent read.
There are perfectly presentable cars being made today, even BEVs, and some of the old ones were awful. Just zip your lip if you want to diss the HK 500.
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Nothing wrong with a piece of automotive sculpture like that.

As for "Jag-you-wahr", no. Just no. As bad as "Jag-Wahr"
 
Rhinocrates said:
Yes, we common folk think that a car should be beautiful, practical, fun to drive, and all that. The super-rich see everything as either a toy, a statement, an investment, or all three - but none of the things that you or I think it should be.

The rich are different - F Scott Fitzgerald
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Other than having money, the rich *aren't* different. Behold the feeding frenzy among many people with no actual money to burn when Nike releases a new shoe attached to some celebrity or other. Or when an otherwise nothing-special stainless steel thermos mug suddenly gains cultural cache, or a new video game becomes popular or... whatever. The rich aren't different, they're just able to regularly express the same quirks in human programming that most humans only get to express occasionally.
 
Jaguar might say "Copy nothing", but I'm starting a rumor that they're being sued over the Type 00 for copyright violations.

DRW
 

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More photos of the new jaGUar GT prototypes.

www.autocar.co.uk

New pictures of Jaguar's super-GT show fresh details ahead of reveal later this year | Autocar

Prototype for Jaguar's £100k Taycan rival confirms no rear window and shows off unique design elements
www.autocar.co.uk www.autocar.co.uk

Points of note:

The quantity, clarity, and closeness of the photos indicate that this was a staged publicity event by jaGUar, which is common these days. Some prototypes under test even have big URLs on their sides.

Overall very similar to the Type 00 concept - slab sides, long blunt nose, low glasshouse with windowless fastback.

Larger headlights than the concept, but still slim.

The black panel 'grille' is clearly disguise and the nose will be similar to the concept's.

The boot is longer and squarer in plan.

Four doors, but the rear pair seem quite small. It looks like there will be quarterlights in the C-pillars, extending the 'visor' appearance of the glazing. If the lump on the trailing edge of the open door isn't just foam, perhaps there are 'haunches' recalling previous Jaguars. If you're a python, entry and egress shouldn't be a problem.

As I've mentioned before, there's an unusually large flap behind the front wheel, above the footwells - much larger than would be necessary for a charger port alone. Access for refilling fluids as well, extra storage, an extending ironing board or picnic table? Actually, the last isn't a joke - Rolls Royce puts umbrellas in the doors of its cars and jaGUar is putting heavy emphasis on being a 'lifestyle' brand, so it might be something special. The long nose has some utility and because of the car's low profile, I've speculated that the battery will be where the engine would have been rather than underfloor. Using leftover volume for extra storage space for something makes sense.

Coupe-like profile - the rear and rear three-quarter views show substantial foam blocks to disguise the sloping roofline. If you mentally strip away the disguise, it looks as though the rear seats will suit blemmyes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headless_men).

Expect the striptease to continue up until launch at the end of the year.
 

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www.carmagazine.co.uk

All aboard the gilded lifeboat of luxury

Why car brands are betting on luxury
www.carmagazine.co.uk

The reason behind Jaguar's reboot.

The brute force of colossal, relatively cheap labour and vertically integrated production – all funded by lakes of state capital – has helped China become the world’s biggest vehicle exporter, its cars heading overseas by the boatload to disrupt the old order. Analysts from bank UBS think the Euro and US brands will lose a fifth of global market share by 2030.

For more than a decade the likes of Rolls-Royce and Bentley have found that pushing upmarket is a gilded lifeboat helping them weather a multitude of storms, from worldwide financial collapse and a global pandemic to supply-chain crises and exit from the EU. If the rest of the world’s car makers are serious about luxury they could learn a lot from these UK-based players.
 
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Interview with Jaguar boss.

www.autocar.co.uk

Jaguar exclusive: new details on game-changing £100k grand tourer | Autocar

GT will kick off a series of radical EVs that distil the best of the brand’s dynamic heritage, says Jag’s boss
www.autocar.co.uk www.autocar.co.uk

Takeaways:

It will look a lot like the Type 00 concept, with dramatic appearance and proportions the priority, with engineers instructed to stake that as the starting point. That said, supposedly it's great to drive and the handling is based on classic jags.

No hybrids, all EVs.

It's a very much a grand tourer, not a sports car. The price will not be less than £100,000. It will not be the customer's only car. "Nobody needs a £100,000 car. You’ve got to want one.”

Order books for the GT will open when it is unveiled and the car will go on a preview tour to potential customers. This will be a “very, very bespoke experience” and targeted at people who have expressed an interest in the concept car.

On that last point, see the 'gilded lifeboat' article above. Jayemm, in the video linked further above, said that Jaguar's worst aspects were quality control and customer service. This looks like they're addressing that directly.
 
Grey Havoc said:
That is definitely not going to end well.
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I would have thought that they'd be able to squeeze some sort of range extender system into that long nose.

Back in the very early days of their development of the C-X75, circa 2010, they'd hoped to have compact gas turbines charging batteries which then sent power to four individual motors driving the wheels.
 

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Rhinocrates said:
As I've mentioned before, there's an unusually large flap behind the front wheel, above the footwells - much larger than would be necessary for a charger port alone. Access for refilling fluids as well, extra storage, an extending ironing board or picnic table? Actually, the last isn't a joke - Rolls Royce puts umbrellas in the doors of its cars and jaGUar is putting heavy emphasis on being a 'lifestyle' brand, so it might be something special. The long nose has some utility and because of the car's low profile, I've speculated that the battery will be where the engine would have been rather than underfloor. Using leftover volume for extra storage space for something makes sense.
Click to expand...
It does look like there's a good 30-45cm between where the A pillar lands on the beltline and the end of the front wheel arch. That's still a "luxury sign".

cheap compact cars don't have much distance between the front wheel and the drivers' door. Luxury cars do have a long space between the front wheel and front doors.

I would not want to have all the batteries up front, that will mess up the balance of the car.
 
Guessing the 'chassis' is of the 'skateboard' type with batteries on the floor/what would have been the transmission tunnel.
Fifty/fifty distribution will be the goal.
 
Foo Fighter said:
Guessing the 'chassis' is of the 'skateboard' type with batteries on the floor/what would have been the transmission tunnel.
Fifty/fifty distribution will be the goal.
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That's certainly how I'd want to do it, but wanting a lower car profile and having that long frunk (what do the Brits call the "front boot"?) might tempt engineers to be stupid.

I'm still wishing that the car makers would go to a style like how RC cars are made: "here's the chassis, the body attaches to the following standardized locations" So we can have coach built bodies with STYLE again!
 
Agreed, there was a Cadilac prototype/concept car a lot of years ago which did juist that. Body change in about ten minutes or so.

If you had a seperate chassis with skateboars and tubes as two parts, you could make the 'bodywork' from softer materials as a recent BMW concept suggested and THAT is better for recycling/using alternative materials such as bamboo or hemp woven aind strecthed to fit.

Gel pack batteries also used as insulation would save weight too.
 
Rhinocrates said:
The quantity, clarity, and closeness of the photos indicate that this was a staged publicity event by jaGUar, which is common these days.
Click to expand...
In this instance this is not the case. The location looks like the 95 outside the entrance to the Bosch Vaitoudden facility. The Press lurk along this road waiting for all the prototypes, sometimes pulling off some extremely dangerous manoeuvres to get their pictures.

They even took a photo of an ex colleague when he'd pulled into a lay-by to relieve himself. The picture got sent to us by our Bosch colleagues asking whether it was indeed one of our team.

Worse than that though, they ride on snowmobiles across the test tracks out on the lake, sometimes when you're hurtling along trying to do some testing. They are idiots.
 
scautomoton said:
In this instance this is not the case. The location looks like the 95 outside the entrance to the Bosch Vaitoudden facility. The Press lurk along this road waiting for all the prototypes, sometimes pulling off some extremely dangerous manoeuvres to get their pictures.

They even took a photo of an ex colleague when he'd pulled into a lay-by to relieve himself. The picture got sent to us by our Bosch colleagues asking whether it was indeed one of our team.

Worse than that though, they ride on snowmobiles across the test tracks out on the lake, sometimes when you're hurtling along trying to do some testing. They are idiots.
Click to expand...
Aha, thanks.
 
Foo Fighter said:
Guessing the 'chassis' is of the 'skateboard' type with batteries on the floor/what would have been the transmission tunnel.
Fifty/fifty distribution will be the goal.
Click to expand...
GM was the major proponent of the "skateboard" concept. So far, their electric offerings have been largely unsuccessful and next generation GM BEVs will be more conventional.
Rhinocrates said:
More photos of the new jaGUar GT prototypes.

www.autocar.co.uk

New pictures of Jaguar's super-GT show fresh details ahead of reveal later this year | Autocar

Prototype for Jaguar's £100k Taycan rival confirms no rear window and shows off unique design elements
www.autocar.co.uk www.autocar.co.uk

Points of note:

The quantity, clarity, and closeness of the photos indicate that this was a staged publicity event by jaGUar, which is common these days. Some prototypes under test even have big URLs on their sides.

Overall very similar to the Type 00 concept - slab sides, long blunt nose, low glasshouse with windowless fastback.

Larger headlights than the concept, but still slim.

The black panel 'grille' is clearly disguise and the nose will be similar to the concept's.

The boot is longer and squarer in plan.

Four doors, but the rear pair seem quite small. It looks like there will be quarterlights in the C-pillars, extending the 'visor' appearance of the glazing. If the lump on the trailing edge of the open door isn't just foam, perhaps there are 'haunches' recalling previous Jaguars. If you're a python, entry and egress shouldn't be a problem.

As I've mentioned before, there's an unusually large flap behind the front wheel, above the footwells - much larger than would be necessary for a charger port alone. Access for refilling fluids as well, extra storage, an extending ironing board or picnic table? Actually, the last isn't a joke - Rolls Royce puts umbrellas in the doors of its cars and jaGUar is putting heavy emphasis on being a 'lifestyle' brand, so it might be something special. The long nose has some utility and because of the car's low profile, I've speculated that the battery will be where the engine would have been rather than underfloor. Using leftover volume for extra storage space for something makes sense.

Coupe-like profile - the rear and rear three-quarter views show substantial foam blocks to disguise the sloping roofline. If you mentally strip away the disguise, it looks as though the rear seats will suit blemmyes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headless_men).

Expect the striptease to continue up until launch at the end of the year.
Click to expand...
The disguised prototype reminds me of a 2004 Chrysler 300C which in turn was inspired by the Rover P5. Sure, the hood is longer but the squashed window line is unmistakable. Odd how Jaguar would adopt such a downmarket and played out take on the played out saloon/sedan bodystyle for an upscale reboot?
 
scautomoton said:
In this instance this is not the case. The location looks like the 95 outside the entrance to the Bosch Vaitoudden facility. The Press lurk along this road waiting for all the prototypes, sometimes pulling off some extremely dangerous manoeuvres to get their pictures.

They even took a photo of an ex colleague when he'd pulled into a lay-by to relieve himself. The picture got sent to us by our Bosch colleagues asking whether it was indeed one of our team.

Worse than that though, they ride on snowmobiles across the test tracks out on the lake, sometimes when you're hurtling along trying to do some testing. They are idiots.
Click to expand...
A few snipers would clear the terrain. AND feed the wildlife. Win-win......

Might knock the second hand snowmobiles market but, meh.
 
Foo Fighter said:
A few snipers would clear the terrain. AND feed the wildlife. Win-win......

Might knock the second hand snowmobiles market but, meh.
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So this reminds me of a story I heard from one of the locals a couple of years ago. At one of the facilities the security team found a photographer hiding in the snow onsite dressed in camo gear. They promptly collared him and called the police to have him arrested for trespass. In an amazing bit of circumstance they found his car (which was parked somewhere along the perimeter fence) spontaneously burst into flames. Very strange.
 
Oddly enough, a big NATO exercise in 1977 had a similar result. A lot of people noticed a red Opel Kadett following our movements very closely.

Somehow while manouvering through different sectors, a Chieftain went through a hedge and right over this particlar hire vehicle. Tragic.

Sadly, I mean, luckily the driver was not in the vehicle at the time and neither were his very posh binoculars. Apparently extra laundry WAS required...........

Who paid the excess on the insurance nobody ever told us.
 
The concept in daylight and ultramarine.

www.carscoops.com

Jaguar's Type 00 Makes Real-Life Video Debut | Carscoops

The polarizing two-door concept will be followed by a production-ready, all-electric four-door GT in late 2025
www.carscoops.com www.carscoops.com

Interview with Jaguar CEO.

Jaguar boss: we didn’t mean to alienate our owners | Auto Express

Here’s the inside story of how an auto company broke the internet – and the car that’s coming next
www.autoexpress.co.uk www.autoexpress.co.uk

Main points covered, reiterating previous statements: may lose 85% of past customers, largely due to price increase but the brand was doomed, as sales were cratering, so lower volumes and high margins are the only way forward; rebranding campaign was about being bold, not 'woke'; confident in EV-only policy and that it will have a very long range due to advanced and large batteries; target buyers are urban want something flamboyant and a special 'retail experience' typical of high status luxury brands.

(My observation: the risk is mitigated by the fact that the Land/Range Rover half of the business is practically printing its own money these days.)

Also, doesn't care if that frog-faced spiv and Oswald Mosley tribute act won't buy one.
 
As GM did with SAAB, Ford PAG did to Jaguar.

Here is an obsolete platform, go build a premier looking car from that.

A shorter Mondeo for more money. Pity the Modeo was actually pretty bleep good.

SAAB deliberately went and used bespoke kit which drove GM execs up the endless wall and eventually led to SAAB being shut down which is a pity as they had great products and with development counld have knocked BMW/Mercedes into a cocked hat.

Those last few SAAB 9-5, brilliance in automotive sculpture.

 
GM used its German/UK subsidiary as a car technology lab, with the resulting know-how spread over the entire concern. Lab costs for Opel/Vauxhall were exclusively booked on Opel/Vauxhall accounts, and somehow, over the last decade or so of GM-ownership, Opel/Vauxhall was in the red. GM considered closing it down entirely, but sold it to PSA (today joined with FIAT in Stellantis). What do you know. Opel + Vauxhall plants are still operating.

Full disclosure: I am still fuming about the twits at GM running down SAAB. GM repeatedly tried to enter the European premium-market with Cadillac, failed every time, all the while they could have positioned SAAB there.
 
Michel Van said:
There Type 00 drives
this time in ultramarine color
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9As4Uoa0LY&pp=ygUOamFndWFyIHR5cGUgMDA%3D
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That... looked like a cheap wrap, or a really poorly finished surface. Matte finish, not the gloss I'd expect of a luxury car.

I think I figured out what is bothering me so much about the front. It's the height of the headlights. They're at the top of the tires. They could be set lower which would reduce the "cliff-face" effect.

Overall roofline does remind me of XK-E Saloons.

Don't like the lack of glass to the rear.
 
I vaguely remember that. Haven't seen it for a very long while now. Stopped watching. I've heard it's much, much worse these days. Commiserations, chin up!
 
Scott Kenny said:
I think I figured out what is bothering me so much about...
Click to expand...
i have impression to see crossover of a brick and soap bar,
this not good from aesthetic sale point

the front is simply ugly, look more closed Air intake of old soviet Fighter.
the lights are wrong, so wrong positions they increase the high of fake intake even more !
the Wheels are far to big for the Car from proportion side.
Also the car is too low for practical driving, try to drive that car over Belgium highway...
what i think of back side of type 00, i keep quiet for politeness.

Let me gess
DEI play a role for hiring the designer of type 00 ?
 
Chief designer Gerry McGovern (1956) is from Coventry.
Michel Van said:
DEI play a role for hiring the designer of type 00 ?
Click to expand...
No. He has been in car design since 1978. He was also chief designer for the Land Rover New Defender.
 

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