China DF-17 hypersonic boost-glide missile carrier

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antigravite

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HI,

This post has been entirely rewritten since it was first published, to be somewhat clearer.

This new thread is intended to be dedicated to China's DF-17, a ballistic missile specifically designed to carry hypersonic weapons, initially tested on November 1, 2017 and unveiled on October 1, 2019.

As a hypersonic weapon vehicle carrier, the DF-17 can launch a hypersonic boost glide vehicle (such as the DF-ZF) and/or other conventional advanced maneuverable reentry vehicles.

While other, scattered DF-17 related posts, have already been published elsewhere in this forum, I felt like suggesting this separate thread to better organize available information.

Thx.

A.
 
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Hi,

Mobile vehicle parade designators:
- ZL-101 & ZL-102 : leading jeep cars
- ZL-103, ZL-104, ZL-105, ZL-106 : 1st row of mobile armored launching vehicles
- ZL-107, ZL-108, ZL-109, ZL-110 : 2nd row of mobile armored launching vehicles
- ZL-111, ZL-112, ZL-113, ZL-114 : 3rd row of mobile armored launching vehicles
- ZL-115, ZL-116, ZL-117, ZL-118 : 4th row of mobile armored launching vehicles
- etc.

A.
 
coanda said:
The missiles look like glass fibre replicas.
Click to expand...

They usually are for these parades. Something like the DF-41 may be 100% complete, but something like the DF-17 likely has a replica missile installed. This is normal behavior for their parades. Same thing with the smaller ones like the HQ-9B or YJ-18 - they use replicas to show the missiles off, when in reality they're contained within sealed launch tubes and wouldn't be seen.
 
coanda said:
SOC said:
coanda said:
The missiles look like glass fibre replicas.
Click to expand...

They usually are for these parades. Something like the DF-41 may be 100% complete, but something like the DF-17 likely has a replica missile installed. This is normal behavior for their parades. Same thing with the smaller ones like the HQ-9B or YJ-18 - they use replicas to show the missiles off, when in reality they're contained within sealed launch tubes and wouldn't be seen.
Click to expand...

Compared to say, the boost glide vehicles also on display, these look a lot less mature, is all I'm saying. Should have put it like that in the first place.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't read anything into it other than it was meant for a parade.
 
sferrin said:
coanda said:
SOC said:
coanda said:
The missiles look like glass fibre replicas.
Click to expand...

They usually are for these parades. Something like the DF-41 may be 100% complete, but something like the DF-17 likely has a replica missile installed. This is normal behavior for their parades. Same thing with the smaller ones like the HQ-9B or YJ-18 - they use replicas to show the missiles off, when in reality they're contained within sealed launch tubes and wouldn't be seen.
Click to expand...

Compared to say, the boost glide vehicles also on display, these look a lot less mature, is all I'm saying. Should have put it like that in the first place.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't read anything into it other than it was meant for a parade.
Click to expand...
It's all about sending a message, of course.

A.
 
antigravite said:
sferrin said:
coanda said:
SOC said:
coanda said:
The missiles look like glass fibre replicas.
Click to expand...

They usually are for these parades. Something like the DF-41 may be 100% complete, but something like the DF-17 likely has a replica missile installed. This is normal behavior for their parades. Same thing with the smaller ones like the HQ-9B or YJ-18 - they use replicas to show the missiles off, when in reality they're contained within sealed launch tubes and wouldn't be seen.
Click to expand...

Compared to say, the boost glide vehicles also on display, these look a lot less mature, is all I'm saying. Should have put it like that in the first place.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't read anything into it other than it was meant for a parade.
Click to expand...
It's all about sending a message, of course.

A.
Click to expand...
You don't say?
 
Maybe the Chinese will go the way of the USA and not feel a need to publicly display any major advancements in technology. It would also be beneficial to do so as it'll help their case in terms of coming off as less assertive and threatening.
 
rooster said:
sferrin said:
gTg said:
in French:
https://www.eastpendulum.com/df-17-ce-que-lon-sait-de-cette-arme-hypersonique-chinoise

TL/DR:
A "quick win" and "stop gap" solution to counter the profilerating US Missile Defences.
Click to expand...


Assuming it was close enough reach PAC-3 could probably hit it.
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Assuming it wasnt maneuvering, right?
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No. Here's a video of a PAC-3 (not even MSE) shooting down a maneuvering RV nearly 2 decades ago.


And yes, you'll inevitably say, "but a manuevering RV and a BGRV aren't the same thing". If it's in PAC-3s envelope, effectively, it may as well be.
 
The problem with PAC-3 is that it only works if the HGV is targeting the area PAC-3 is defending and its looking in the right direction. We don't have that many patriot batteries around.
 
And flying at a suppressed glide angle. OK. But it would need to preprogrammed to hit a specific target along with having its flight path/maneuvers put in.
 
I'm curious if it can still retain the velocity of its Ballistic sibling. 2500 km range means the missile is capable of reaching 4.5 km/s or Mach 13 at its peak.
 
Hi. Some news of interest.

A video was leaked shared today on twitter by OedoSoldier showcasing "ALBMを搭載したH-6N".
This is identified as a hypersonic DF-17 carried by an air-refueled H6-N bomber.
Screengrabs available on the twitter thread, etc.

MEDIA=twitter]1317316788594438144[/MEDIA]
View: https://twitter.com/OedoSoldier/status/1317316788594438144?s=20

A.
 
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And Flight, which labels it an ALBM

www.flightglobal.com

Chinese H-6N appears with mysterious ballistic missile

A brief video has emerged of a Xian H-6N bomber carrying what could be a ballistic missile or boost-glide vehicle along its centreline. The video appeared on the Chinese internet on 17 October. It goes some way to confirming a long-held theory that one mission for the H-6N, the most ...
www.flightglobal.com www.flightglobal.com
 
If that is a DF-17 under that H-6, it must be pushing the upper boundary of war load. I'm a little surprised they don't have clearance issues landing with it as well.

EDIT: Also when the H-6N first came out, I thought most people (including myself) were under the assumption that the rocket drone that was in the 70th anniversary parade was the cargo. It's hard to make out what is under that H-6 but it doesn't seem to have the wingspan of the drone.

 
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www.defensenews.com

China cracks down on online military posts

China has cracked down on the discussion of military affairs within its so-called Great Firewall, potentially limiting open-source coverage of the country’s defense developments.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com

These actions come in the wake of a Weibo account run by the military’s official newspaper, the PLA Daily, posting a commentary warning China’s military enthusiasts to avoid being unwitting tools for foreign intelligence services.

The Weibo account, Jun Zhengping Studio, which roughly translates to “Military Discussion Studio,” cited a recent incident where a photo published on social media showed “a weapon that has yet to enter service,” which became “key intelligence” for foreign agencies seeking information on China’s defense and military developments.

It added that this incident was the latest in a string of similar occurrences and warned that even unwitting revelations of military secrets by defense enthusiasts who are otherwise supporters of a strong Chinese military could potentially lead to prison terms.

It’s unclear what recent revelation the commentary was referring to; although in recent months, video of a Xi’an H-6N bomber carrying what is believed to be an air-launched hypersonic glide vehicle as well as photos taken discreetly from a distance showing elements of the internal layout of China’s third aircraft carrier currently undergoing construction at a shipyard near Shanghai first appeared on China’s social media.

The crackdown is potentially detrimental to those who use open-source material to analyze China’s military developments. Other examples of such sources include a regular stream of photos showing the progress of the aforementioned aircraft carrier undergoing construction at Changxing island near Shanghai, sometimes taken by passengers on commercial airliners taking off from or landing at the city’s Pudong airport.
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edwest2 said:
sferrin said:
edwest said:
I don't know. It looks too small to go hypersonic as pictured.
Click to expand...

What does?
Click to expand...


The DF-17 looks too small to go hypersonic. My guess is the boost-glide warhead plus the upper rocket stage is all that's being displayed.
Click to expand...
The actual nuclear weapon may not be that large if you consider the MIRVS of the MinuteMan era. Also with regard to the HGV, If you recall the size of the US DARPA HGV, it was about the same size as the HGV end of the DF-17 from what I have seen in public. The shape is vaguely familiar and a cross of a Lockheed SR-72 with no wings, and a proposed 2STO Shuttle proposal - Beta II - drop ship to orbit -- model by NASA. The booster starts just behind the vertical stabilizer and shared compression strakes. It will separate once the vehicle has reached sufficient altitude, direction and velocity. The nose <white> paint will be gone it two seconds once it is allowed to be in the airflow. That is if it is not a ceramic nose piece like the NASA Shuttle that is normally white. And, the smaller the cross section the higher the ballistic coefficient for the same mass. For all I know it could be a solid piece of iron, a ballistic kinetic kill weapon with guidance.

And looking at the larger close up, the leading edges of on of the models of DF-17 look very uneven....like an amateur did the cutting of the fiberglass LE on the one DF-17.... as an earlier commenter stated.... fiberglass replicas.

As for maintaining the velocity of the booster, at sufficient altitude, vaccuum or near vaccuum, maybe, but once it starts down, not so much. Gravity works... and drag increases as the density of air increases... 50K altitude to ground level would make a pretty fast slowdown with aerodynamic surfaces in the breeze, and a blunt drag producing rear area. The drag notes from tech docs NASA produced about blunt trailing edge lifting bodies indicate it.

But later pictures reveal a scram jet type intake, so the base bleed issue is moot.

Just my $.02 worth given a look at the pics.

Curtis
 
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Grey Havoc said:
www.defensenews.com

China cracks down on online military posts

China has cracked down on the discussion of military affairs within its so-called Great Firewall, potentially limiting open-source coverage of the country’s defense developments.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com

These actions come in the wake of a Weibo account run by the military’s official newspaper, the PLA Daily, posting a commentary warning China’s military enthusiasts to avoid being unwitting tools for foreign intelligence services.

The Weibo account, Jun Zhengping Studio, which roughly translates to “Military Discussion Studio,” cited a recent incident where a photo published on social media showed “a weapon that has yet to enter service,” which became “key intelligence” for foreign agencies seeking information on China’s defense and military developments.

It added that this incident was the latest in a string of similar occurrences and warned that even unwitting revelations of military secrets by defense enthusiasts who are otherwise supporters of a strong Chinese military could potentially lead to prison terms.

It’s unclear what recent revelation the commentary was referring to; although in recent months, video of a Xi’an H-6N bomber carrying what is believed to be an air-launched hypersonic glide vehicle as well as photos taken discreetly from a distance showing elements of the internal layout of China’s third aircraft carrier currently undergoing construction at a shipyard near Shanghai first appeared on China’s social media.

The crackdown is potentially detrimental to those who use open-source material to analyze China’s military developments. Other examples of such sources include a regular stream of photos showing the progress of the aforementioned aircraft carrier undergoing construction at Changxing island near Shanghai, sometimes taken by passengers on commercial airliners taking off from or landing at the city’s Pudong airport.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
There is no better indication of propaganda than to publish an article advising citizens and military of their duty to protect the MotherLand by not having loose lips... especially if it can be read by the enemy citizens. Misdirection??
 

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