Sukhoi Su-35 multi-role fighter

[sferrin]

Su-35 launching the R-37M, nice find Deino. A big missile for the Su-35 to carry, any idea as to what the maximum take of weight of the Su-35 will be with a full load of R-37s?

That Kh-31 launch was pretty dang interesting as well.

 

[TR1]

Sure, that was R-37M of course. But as far as i know it is not operational yet and havent seen pics of it in flight etc.

That R-37M was from a regular MiG-31 regiment having an "open-house" day IIRC.

I think it is operational on MiG-31BMs, albeit in small quantities.

 

[Trident]

Can you give me the link please

http://knaaz.org/media/rus/about/production/military/su-35/su-35_buklet_rus.pdf

I've since found photos of a Su-35 on static display with a Kh-35U under the intakes, lending further credence to the idea that the brochure is simply out of date and showing KS-172s. My bet is six (though as with the F-14 this will likely be a rare config in real life), a seventh on the centreline is physically possible but like the AGMs they might well elect not to clear it for that station.

 

[haavarla]

I wonder how many R-37 can Su-35 carry?

Well, it's supposed to weigh some 600kg and is dimensionally more compact than Russian AGMs of comparable weight like Kh-31 and Kh-29, so I'd expect at least 6 (possibly 7, if its span allows carriage on the centreline).

EDIT: the KNAAZ brochure says 5, four underwing and one on the centreline. Weird, the Kh-31 is the same weight but longer and the Kh-29 is heavier and has a larger span, yet both can be carried under the intakes. Then again, you might in the same vein wonder why the Kh-31 and Kh-29 can't go on the centreline if the Kh-59M fits (unless 6 was simply judged to be perfectly sufficient, which is reasonable). Or why the even smaller and lighter Kh-35 isn't available on the intakes either? Maybe the long-range AAM referred to is in fact the even larger KS-172 (mock-ups of which the Su-35 was often displayed with early on)?

I find it interesting that they can mount R-37 on the Intakes pylons as well. Guess they can fit one on eact wing and two on senter pylons as well.

The missile in that video came off the inner wing pylon, you can actually just about make out the extended ejector pushers in those stills. So it's not entirely clear whether it can be carried on the intake hard points - I suspect it can, and that the brochure is merely outdated in showing the KS-172, but that's just a hunch. I'm positive though that it's impossible to carry two of these monsters in tandem on the centreline, at more than 4m it's just too long for that.

Anyway, based on all this I think the absolute minimum is the brochure figure of 5, potentially one or two more.

Sorry. I mostly use a shitty Phone, it looked like from the airintake pylon, but i suspect you are right

 

[alejandro_]

Recent article by Vladimir Karmozov. Not very detailed but provides a good summary of the type.

СÑ-35С - веÑÑина ÑволÑÑии "ФлÑнкеÑа" (ЧаÑÑÑ 1)

ÐÑоÑедÑий 23-29 авгÑÑÑа ÐеждÑнаÑоднÑй военно-ÑеÑниÑеÑкий ÑоÑÑм «ÐÐ ÐÐЯ-2020» запомнилÑÑ Ð½Ð°ÑÑÑенной пÑогÑаммой

www.aex.ru

СÑ-35С - веÑÑина ÑволÑÑии "ФлÑнкеÑа" (ЧаÑÑÑ 2)

РпеÑвой ÑаÑÑи ÑÑаÑÑи Ð¼Ñ ÑаÑÑмоÑÑели некоÑоÑÑе пÑеимÑÑеÑÑва и оÑобенноÑÑи ÑамолеÑа СÑ-35С. Ðо вÑоÑой поговоÑим более

www.aex.ru

 

[AGS-1787]

Dcs forums have a series of posts of an ex-su-27 pilot, unfortunately in Russian, as far as I can tell he says the su-35 way way better than the su-27 and points to it making the su-34 redundant once the su-30 and su-35 get a targeting pod.

 

[haavarla]

Dcs forums have a series of posts of an ex-su-27 pilot, unfortunately in Russian, as far as I can tell he says the su-35 way way better than the su-27 and points to it making the su-34 redundant once the su-30 and su-35 get a targeting pod.

Two things springs to mind.
1. Isn't the internal Laser/Thermal optics on Su-34 upgraded?
2. Any reason the Su-34 cannot carry any Sniping pod?

 

[Evgeniy]

Dcs forums have a series of posts of an ex-su-27 pilot, unfortunately in Russian, as far as I can tell he says the su-35 way way better than the su-27 and points to it making the su-34 redundant once the su-30 and su-35 get a targeting pod.

Well, to be precise, it was a former Su-35S pilot. who fought in Syria. He wrote a lot there.
But in the context of comparison with the Su-34, it would be worth listening to the answer of the Su-34 pilots.

And also with such a comparison, do not forget that the hanging container is still not really visible. Although there is a photo of the Su-35S from Syria, and there is something hanging under the MiG-35.
But this is now, but the first su-34 entered the troops already in 2007, that is, 13 years ago. And what kind of container 13 years ago ...

Here's the intagrams of this pilot:

Maxwell Power (@maxmpower) • Instagram photos and videos

0 Followers, 0 Following, 0 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Maxwell Power (@maxmpower)

www.instagram.com

 

[haavarla]

Dcs forums have a series of posts of an ex-su-27 pilot, unfortunately in Russian, as far as I can tell he says the su-35 way way better than the su-27 and points to it making the su-34 redundant once the su-30 and su-35 get a targeting pod.

Well, to be precise, it was a former Su-35S pilot. who fought in Syria. He wrote a lot there.
But in the context of comparison with the Su-34, it would be worth listening to the answer of the Su-34 pilots.

And also with such a comparison, do not forget that the hanging container is still not really visible. Although there is a photo of the Su-35S from Syria, and there is something hanging under the MiG-35.
But this is now, but the first su-34 entered the troops already in 2007, that is, 13 years ago. And what kind of container 13 years ago ...

Here's the intagrams of this pilot:

Maxwell Power (@maxmpower) • Instagram photos and videos

0 Followers, 0 Following, 0 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Maxwell Power (@maxmpower)

www.instagram.com

Wish i had a instagram like that...
Lots of awesomesauce!

 

[alejandro_]

Dcs forums have a series of posts of an ex-su-27 pilot, unfortunately in Russian, as far as I can tell he says the su-35 way way better than the su-27 and points to it making the su-34 redundant once the su-30 and su-35 get a targeting pod.

This was a classical debate a few years ago. Su-34 had some advantages against Su-30 that were not so obvious. It has 3 pylons certified for 1,500Kg loads versus 1 for the Su-30.

The cockpit's side-by-side configuration of the more efficient and better suited for long range missions. It's radar should be optimized for air-to-ground missions (perhaps more SAR?).

In any case, it was necessary to keep NAPO factory going, thus other factors played a big role.

 

[helmutkohl]

Dcs forums have a series of posts of an ex-su-27 pilot, unfortunately in Russian, as far as I can tell he says the su-35 way way better than the su-27 and points to it making the su-34 redundant once the su-30 and su-35 get a targeting pod.

This was a classical debate a few years ago. Su-34 had some advantages against Su-30 that were not so obvious. It has 3 pylons certified for 1,500Kg loads versus 1 for the Su-30.

The cockpit's side-by-side configuration of the more efficient and better suited for long range missions. It's radar should be optimized for air-to-ground missions (perhaps more SAR?).

In any case, it was necessary to keep NAPO factory going, thus other factors played a big role.

how many pylons certified for 1500kg are there for the Su-35?
thanks in advancio

 

[AGS-1787]

I think it is also optimized for subsonic flight at low altitudes since it doesn't have the variable intakes, reinforced cockpit, more fuel capacity, more payload.

 

[alejandro_]

how many pylons certified for 1500kg are there for the Su-35?

Su-35 has 3 pylons certified for 1,500 Kg loads according to a KnAAPO pdf. It also carries 20% more fuel than original Su-27.

 

[helmutkohl]

how many pylons certified for 1500kg are there for the Su-35?

Su-35 has 3 pylons certified for 1,500 Kg loads according to a KnAAPO pdf. It also carries 20% more fuel than original Su-27.

thanks, so it seems indeeed the Su-35 does close the gap in terms of payload with the Su-34. pilot workload is a different thing of course!

 

[FighterJock]

how many pylons certified for 1500kg are there for the Su-35?

Su-35 has 3 pylons certified for 1,500 Kg loads according to a KnAAPO pdf. It also carries 20% more fuel than original Su-27.

thanks, so it seems indeeed the Su-35 does close the gap in terms of payload with the Su-34. pilot workload is a different thing of course!

The Su-34 was designed with two person crew in mind right from the start because it was to replace the Su-24.

 

[helmutkohl]

how many pylons certified for 1500kg are there for the Su-35?

Su-35 has 3 pylons certified for 1,500 Kg loads according to a KnAAPO pdf. It also carries 20% more fuel than original Su-27.

thanks, so it seems indeeed the Su-35 does close the gap in terms of payload with the Su-34. pilot workload is a different thing of course!

The Su-34 was designed with two person crew in mind right from the start because it was to replace the Su-24.

a more broader design question..
most of the 5th gen and other newer designs these days are single seat, including the ground attack oriented F-35
has computing power these days negated the need for a twin seater?

 

[haavarla]

how many pylons certified for 1500kg are there for the Su-35?

Su-35 has 3 pylons certified for 1,500 Kg loads according to a KnAAPO pdf. It also carries 20% more fuel than original Su-27.

thanks, so it seems indeeed the Su-35 does close the gap in terms of payload with the Su-34. pilot workload is a different thing of course!

Not really. The Su-34 is Designed to carry heavier stuff. But even more important, it is designed to carry heavier stuff on a higher service rotation.
Yes, on each mission it can do Take-off, complete its flight profile, and land with higher bringback weight(see MLG for clues).
So the practical operational profile; A Frontline Tactical Bomber.

Su-34 also carry more fuel, more NTOW fuel as well, several tons more vs Su-35S. And Something tells me Su-34 do a lot of missions with topped up fueltanks.

 

[alejandro_]

Su-34 also carry more fuel, more NTOW fuel as well, several tons more vs Su-35S. And Something tells me Su-34 do a lot of missions with topped up fuel tanks.

Probably, but the question is: Is it worth all the funds invested and the different logistics? You could argue that Su-34 performs better in some configuration (3×KAB-1500KR), but how often does this occur?

 

[FighterJock]

Su-34 also carry more fuel, more NTOW fuel as well, several tons more vs Su-35S. And Something tells me Su-34 do a lot of missions with topped up fuel tanks.

Probably, but the question is: Is it worth all the funds invested and the different logistics? You could argue that Su-34 performs better in some configuration (3×KAB-1500KR), but how often does this occur?

Russia seems to think so, as they have just announced a much more modified version of the Su-34 the Su-34M with much more modern computers and avionics replacing the equipment that was designed and built in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

 

[alejandro_]

Russia seems to think so, as they have just announced a much more modified version of the Su-34 the Su-34M with much more modern computers and avionics replacing the equipment that was designed and built in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Yes, but now the tooling and production line is set i.e. capital investment was completed. There is no point in converting NAPO to manufacture Su-30s.

 

[haavarla]

Su-34 also carry more fuel, more NTOW fuel as well, several tons more vs Su-35S. And Something tells me Su-34 do a lot of missions with topped up fuel tanks.

Probably, but the question is: Is it worth all the funds invested and the different logistics? You could argue that Su-34 performs better in some configuration (3×KAB-1500KR), but how often does this occur?

I did miss out on the wet bag. Su-35S does not have any.
I have seen it promoted, but the Russian AF did not see it required.
The Su-34 at least can carry a big wetbag on senter hardpoints. That shows, the Su-34 being able to ferry out to a new region on very short notice.

And how about the senter hardpoints, i read somewhere that KnAAZ, Su-35S never did certify them above 1500kg.
The NAPO Su-34 does.

 

[flanker]

Sure, that was R-37M of course. But as far as i know it is not operational yet and havent seen pics of it in flight etc.

That R-37M was from a regular MiG-31 regiment having an "open-house" day IIRC.

I think it is operational on MiG-31BMs, albeit in small quantities.

I am extremely extremely skeptical that is the case, as much as i would like it. From what i was told just last year at MAKS, R-37M is not operational and will become operational first on chinese Su-35S. Now, he could have been lying, or being misleading on purpose or simply talked out of his arse. Who knows. A MiG-31BM pilot i had correspondence with (asking about the mysterious R-33S, for instance ) wasn't optimistic at that time about R-37M being operational soon, unlike R-77-1 for example...

 

[alejandro_]

And how about the senter hardpoints, i read somewhere that KnAAZ, Su-35S never did certify them above 1500kg.
The NAPO Su-34 does.

Are you sure? I was comparting the Su-30/34/35 payload configurations and they can all carry 3 KAB-1500. See below. I have not see any heavier weapon used by the Flanker family, except Brahmos in Su-30MKI (2500Kg)

There are photos of Su-35 with 3 × KAB-1500.

 

[helmutkohl]

according to that map, Iraq has su-30s?
is this true? i couldnt find any pics

 

[Trident]

No, although AFAIK they did seriously consider it at one point (as did Thailand). OTOH the map is missing Belarus & Armenia.

It's probably out of date.

 

[helmutkohl]

US doesnt seem too happy about Egypt buying Su-35s.
could it affect spares?

Secretary Blinken’s Call with Egyptian Foreign Minister Shoukry - United States Department of State

The below is attributable to Spokesperson Ned Price: Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken spoke today with Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry. The Secretary and the Foreign Minister highlighted the importance of the strong strategic partnership between the United States and Egypt...

www.state.gov

 

[dan_inbox]

"...highlighted the importance of the strong strategic partnership between the United States and Egypt"
It would be comical if it wasn't so sad. Talking about "strong strategic partnership" when on one side any commitment is basically valid until the next election, with new administrations routinely considering that anything signed by the previous one is not binding them,
and on the other side a country that has switched alliegeance so many times that we can't count.

Oh well. The words sound good, and maybe somebody will be gullible enough to believe them.

/rant

 

[prototype]

Roll-out Su-35 before first take-off. For history only

 

[helmutkohl]

sadly
an Su-35 just crashed in the Sea of Okhotsk due to engine failure
but pilot is safe! thank goodness

Самолет Су-35С упал в акватории Охотского моря после отказа двигателя

По данным пресс-службы ВВО, пилот катапультировался из него

tass.ru

 

[TMA1]

Yeah it sucks. I heard it was still flying after the pilot ejected. Not sure if this is true. Wonder if it was birdstrike.

 

[FighterJock]

Yeah it sucks. I heard it was still flying after the pilot ejected. Not sure if this is true. Wonder if it was birdstrike.

Strange how the Su-35 still flew even though the pilot ejected. Anyone know how this could have happened?

 

[GARGEAN]

Yeah it sucks. I heard it was still flying after the pilot ejected. Not sure if this is true. Wonder if it was birdstrike.

Strange how the Su-35 still flew even though the pilot ejected. Anyone know how this could have happened?

1989 Belgium MiG-23 crash - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Who knows

 

[PlanesPictures]

Yeah it sucks. I heard it was still flying after the pilot ejected. Not sure if this is true. Wonder if it was birdstrike.

Strange how the Su-35 still flew even though the pilot ejected. Anyone know how this could have happened?

The Time An F-106 Interceptor Landed Itself Without A Pilot

The world of military aviation is full of strange stories, freak accidents, amazing near-misses, and unlikely happenings. But few tales are stranger than

www.warhistoryonline.com

 

[Dreamfighter]

Yeah it sucks. I heard it was still flying after the pilot ejected. Not sure if this is true. Wonder if it was birdstrike.

Strange how the Su-35 still flew even though the pilot ejected. Anyone know how this could have happened?

1989 Belgium MiG-23 crash - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Who knows

I remember that MiG-23 incident & crash quite well. It passed over my town with the F-15s chasing it and crashed about 40 miles further on a house, killing a young student who was taking a good nap after an exam.

 

[F.L.]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/world/iran-air-force-base-jets.html

 

[TomcatViP]

Just to complete on the link above, it's all about a Su-35 mockup being sighted outside of the recently unveiled said-so underground aircraft base...

 

[F.L.]

It's an old article, I think it's unconfirmed ?

Sudan receives Su-35 fighter jets ahead of Bashir’s first Russia visit

Sudan has become the first Arab country to acquire the fourth generation Su-35 fighter jets from Russia just ahead of President Omar Ahmed

english.alarabiya.net

 

[isayyo2]

It's an old article, I think it's intox ?

Sudan receives Su-35 fighter jets ahead of Bashir’s first Russia visit

Sudan has become the first Arab country to acquire the fourth generation Su-35 fighter jets from Russia just ahead of President Omar Ahmed

english.alarabiya.net

Originally posted 2017, updated 2020. Whatever deal was signed hasn’t occur yet, similarly with Algeria’s Su-34 order unfortunately.

 

[snne]

Are there any updates on Iranian Su-35 deal? I'm not an Iran enjoyer or anything but I can't wait to see the aircraft wearing IRIAF livery, that would look really sexy, wouldn't it?

 

[F.L.]

I think the use of the R-37 on the Su-35 is a major turning point for the RuAF's capabilities.
It gives it an aircraft similar to the F-14 Tomcat, with long (R-37), medium (R-77), short (R-73) and very short range (guns) capabilities.
The MiG-31, had only long and medium range capabilities. I don't think it was good at dogfighting.