WW2 into the 50's

[Mig Eater]

I'm working on a WW2 mod of an RTS PC game, I posted some of the art work I've done for it here.

The game is split up into five sections each representing different periods during WW2, the last one however is a hypothetical continuation of WW2 into the early 1950’s. I’ve never really gone into a why & how the war carried on, it’s really just a good excuse to add lots of funky “what if” weapons.

I’ve compiled a unit list for each of the seven countries in the game, it’s currently a mix of late WW2 & early cold war projects, most of which I’ve picked out of aesthetics & functionality in view of their usage in a game. Also all of the units are categorized & there is a limit of one unit within each, so as to not render any unit redundant & keep a rock, paper & scissors style gameplay etc.

Anyway I’m looking for any extra ideas/thoughts, I’m sure I’ve missed a few projects/prototypes that would fit into this scenario.

America

Cargo Vehicle: CCKW-353
Scout: Willys MB Jeep
Transport: M75
(Thinking about the LVTP6 as an alternative)
Medium Tank: T69
Anti-Aircraft: M42
(I only know of the M19 & M42, any other AA?)
Tank Destroyer: ?
(Can’t make my mind up between the M50, M56 or the T28/T95)
Artillery: T92
Heavy Tank: T58
Repair Vehicle: M51

Fighter: F-86 Saber
Ground Attack: F-84 Thunderjet
Medium Bomber: B-45 Tornado
Heavy Bomber: B-47 Stratojet
Transport Plane: C-119 Flying Boxcar
Helicopter: UH-1 Huey

Destroyer: Gearing
Landing craft: LCT Mk.6
Battleship: Iowa
Aircraft Carrier: Forrestal
Carrier Plane: AD-6 Skyraider

Great Britain

Cargo Vehicle: Morris C8 GS
(Thinking about TX-1000 Rhino, it was never meant as a cargo vehicle tho)
Scout: FV601 Saladin
Transport: Land Rover LWB
Light Tank: FV301
Anti-Aircraft: ?
(I can’t find any post-war AA projects?)
Tank Destroyer: FV4401 Contentious
(This is the Contentious with the two recoilless rifles)
Artillery: FV304
Heavy Tank: FV4007 Centurion
Mine Flail: A22 Churchill Toad

Fighter: Meteor F.III
Ground Attack: Venom FB.1
Medium Bomber: Canberra B.2
Heavy Bomber: Vickers "Type C"
Transport Plane: Blackburn Beverley

Destroyer: Battle
Landing craft: LCT Mk.6
Battleship: Vanguard
Aircraft Carrier: Audacious
Carrier Plane: Wyvern Mk.4

France

Cargo Vehicle: Hotchkiss CC2
Scout: Panhard EBR
Transport: AMX-VTP
Light Tank: AMX-13
Anti-Aircraft: AMX-13 DCA
Tank Destroyer: AMX-50 Foch
Artillery: Lorraine-155
Heavy Tank: AMX-50

Fighter: Dassault Mystère IV
Ground Attack: Dassault Ouragan
Medium Bomber: Sud-Ouest SO. 4050 Vautour
Heavy Bomber: Sud-Ouest SO.4000
(It wasn’t very good but the SO.4000 was the best I could find to fit into the category)
Transport Plane: Nord 2501 Noratlas

Destroyer: Desaix
Landing craft: LCT Mk.6
Battleship: Richelieu
Aircraft Carrier: Clemenceau (PA-28)
Carrier Plane: Sud-Ouest SO.8000 Narval

Soviet Union

Cargo Vehicle: AT-T
Scout: Ba-64
Transport: BTR-152
(Thinking about replacing both the Ba-64 & BTR-152 with the BTR-40 or BRDM-1)
Medium Tank: T-54
Anti-Aircraft: Zsu-57-2
Tank Destroyer: Su-122-54
Artillery: Bm-24
Heavy Tank: Is-7

Fighter: Mig-15
Ground Attack: Il-40 Brawny
Medium Bomber: Il-28 Beagle
Heavy Bomber: Tu-95 Bear
Helicopter: Mi-1 Hare

Destroyer: Kotlin
Landing craft: Project 748
Submarine: Zulu
(Armed with R-11FM & used instead of a battleship etc)

Germany

Cargo Vehicle: Steyr RSO
Scout: Sd.Kfz 234/2 Puma
Transport: 38(d) Katzchen
Medium Tank: E-50
Anti-Aircraft: Coelian
Tank Destroyer: E-25
Artillery: Grille 17
Heavy Tank: E-100

Fighter: Ho-229
Ground Attack: Ju-sfp
Medium Bomber: Fw-1000
Heavy Bomber: Ar-E555
Helicopter: Weser P.1003

Destroyer: Zerstörer 1945
Landing craft: Marinefährprahm
Submarine: U-boat Type XXI
Battleship: H44

Italy

Cargo Vehicle: Breda 40
Scout: AB43
Transport: Dovunque 35 Protetto
Medium Tank: P43 Bis
Anti-Aircraft: Autocannone 90/53
Tank Destroyer: Semovente M43 105/25
Artillery: Semovente da 149/40
IFV: AS42 Sahariana

Fighter: Ambrosini Sagittario II
Ground Attack: CA.380 Corsaro
Medium Bomber: Campini C.S.11
(I have little to no info on the C.S.11 but it’s the only thing I could find to fit in here)
Heavy Bomber: Piaggio P.130

Destroyer: Soldati
Landing craft: Marinefährprahm
Battleship: Littorio
Aircraft Carrier: Aquila
(I’m thinking of replacing the Aquila with a seaplane)

Japan

Cargo Vehicle:?
Transport: Type 1 Ho-Ki
Light Tank: Type 5 Ke-Ho
Medium Tank: Type 5 Chi-Ri
Anti-Aircraft: Type 98 Ta-Se
Tank Destroyer: Type 2 Ho-Ri
Artillery: Type 4 Ha-To

Fighter: J7W2 Shinden-Kai
Ground Attack: Mansyu Ki-98
Medium Bomber: R2Y2 Keiun-Kai
Heavy Bomber: G10N1 Fugaku

Destroyer: Matsu
Landing craft: No.103 SB(T)
Submarine: I-400 Sen Toku
Battleship: Yamato
Aircraft Carrier: Shinano
Carrier Plane: A7M Reppu


If you managed to read all the way down here then I salute you! & if you have any thoughts on possible units feel free to post them.

 

[Grey Havoc]

For the Japanese roster, add either the A-150 Battleship, or the Project 65 Battlecruiser. The specs given for the latter are actually for the Project 64 Super Type A cruiser (a super-heavy cruiser in other words), but are the same but for the deletion of the torpedo armament and the upgrade of the main battery to 14 inch.

They both would have likely been built in some form if Imperial Japan had somehow lasted into the later half of the 1940's. The A-150 had even more firepower than Yamato including good anti-aircraft armament, while Project 65 was Japan's answer to the USN's Alaska class which, by the way, you could add to the US line-up as a (Super) Heavy Cruiser or Battlecruiser, depending on taste.

 

[Apophenia]

On the Huey -- the HU-1A didn't enter service until 1960. Why not go with the Sikorsky H-19 Chickasaw (S-55) of 1949 or maybe even 'productionize' the wartime Kellett XR-10?

BTW, I notice that the helicopter class is missing from the lists for Great Britain, France, Italy, and Japan. Why not fill in the gaps?

Great Britain: Bristol Type 171 Sycamore (prototype flew in 1947). Alternatively, evolve the Weir W-6, (1939) lateral side-by-side rotor configuration. Or, continue the W-9 concept -- with its rather futuristic ROTAR approach or modify with a Sikorsky-style tail rotor. Speaking of Weir, you might also add their W-14 Skeeter (as produced by Saunders-Roe) to your list.

France: Sud-Est SE.3000 (Fa-223 dev.) or SE.3120 Alouette I (as observative type)? Alternatively, a post-war evolution of the coaxial Bréguet-Dorand in that spotter role?

Italy: no utility types (maybe Manzolini Libellula as a spotter type?).

Japan: don't know of any (maybe Kayaba continues autogyro development?). Does anyone know of any WWII Japanese helicopter designs?

 

[Mig Eater]

Thanks for the replies, this is just the sort of info I'm after.

I vaguely remember reading about the A-150, I guess it slipped my mind tho, anyway I replaced the Yamato with the A-150.

I was using the CH-34 for quite awhile but I recently changed it too the UH-1 as I felt that the Huey was more iconic. Even tho the Huey prototype first flew in 1956 as you said it didn't enter full service until 1959 which I guess is a bit late, so I'll go back to using the CH-34.

Your suggestions for European helicopters intrigued me so I did some research & found the Cierva W.11 which will fit the British nicely. For the French I'm split between the Alouette & Sud-Ouest SO.1310 Farfadet, the Alouette is the better known & more practical but when I look a the Farfadet I cant help but think of what it would look like with some wing mounted rockets or 50cal pods ^-^

For Italy, other then the Libellula you mention I found the Piaggio PD.4 but TBH nether are really suitable for what I need.

Kayaba made a "Heliplane" in the early 50's but it was just a testbed using a heavily modified Cessna 170, other then that all I can find is license build US helicopters from the 60's.

 

[frank]

My 2 cents on the US helos for early '50s. I'd go with 3 & I don't see how you could be more iconic for early '50s helos if you went with the H-19, H-21 & even more, the Bell H-13, but they fill different roles so that could justify all 3. IMHO, it doesn't get more iconic than those 3. Even the H-34 seems late '50s & '60s to me.

 

[Pioneer]

WWII into the 1950's!

Even though you state

I’ve never really gone into a why & how the war carried on................

If Japan and Germany are still in the war, then I would ask you to take into account the following:


Your F-86 Sabre, B-47 Stratojet, Mystère IV, SO. 4050 Vautour, MiG-15 and Tu-95?
As the Allies only gained swept-wing technology and know-how after the collapse of Nazi German - and the use of a lot of their abducted/seconded scientist!!

Also your French AMX-50 Foch, AMX-50 and Lorraine-155 were developed thanks to German technology after the end of the war - much of it from the German Panther tank.

And I am pritty sure the Soviet Zulu class sub used German know how in their design and development
What about - Sweden - Saab 21 and Saab 21R (jet) fighters used in your game?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[pathology_doc]

For British AA, you would have to consider the development of Brakemine and other SAMs that were being played around with (BSP4), given the increasing likelihood of German fast jet incursions over the UK. Depending on HOW late into the 50s you go, you might have seen early iterations of Seaslug (or something resembling what became Seaslug). Artemis AAM would probably also have been developed, at least as a stop-gap, to allow Meteors and Vampires (at first, Venoms later) to shoot down faster swept-wing Luftwaffe a/c.

I suspect that the Brits and Yanks would have developed swept-wing tech on their own, esp. given that some at least of the Luftwaffe's bombers and fighters would not have had things all their own way over Allied-held soil.

For Germany, you have to consider the maturation of its surface-air missile program. The RAF probably has an edge here, already playing around with black boxes, chaff etc. because of the night bombing campaign - and I can imagine that an H2S tuned in the right way would be one hell of a jammer...

Just a few thoughts.

 

[frank]

I think it's logical to assume espionage would have played a role in the Allies getting swept wing technology prior to the War's end.

WWII into the 1950's!

Even though you state

I’ve never really gone into a why & how the war carried on................

If Japan and Germany are still in the war, then I would ask you to take into account the following:


Your F-86 Sabre, B-47 Stratojet, Mystère IV, SO. 4050 Vautour, MiG-15 and Tu-95?
As the Allies only gained swept-wing technology and know-how after the collapse of Nazi German - and the use of a lot of their abducted/seconded scientist!!

Also your French AMX-50 Foch, AMX-50 and Lorraine-155 were developed thanks to German technology after the end of the war - much of it from the German Panther tank.

And I am pritty sure the Soviet Zulu class sub used German know how in their design and development
What about - Sweden - Saab 21 and Saab 21R (jet) fighters used in your game?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Pioneer]

Yeah that fair enough!
It;s just obvious to me how far ahead German aeronautics was when compared to the Allies - especially the effort and priority the all the individual Allies put on obtain samples and the German behind it!!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[Madurai]

A US SPAAG besides the familiar Duster would be the T100--essentially a M56 Scorpion chassis with a quadruple 60-cal (15mm) machinegun open mount.