I wouldn't write Iranians off. Prior to the fall of the Shah some very good mathematics and software people came out of there.
So it's conceivable that an AH Persia Empire might manage quite a bit.
Entirely possible that an alternate WWI that resulted in Persia being not chopped up and being instead converted into a reasonably modern society could ahve led it to being a force to be reckoned with today. But once the post-WWI re-organization of the Middle East happened, it became real difficult for any nation there to amount to a damn thing.
Iranians did not need anybody to “convert” their country into a modern society for them, they were more than capable of doing it on their own. Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah had already set this into motion. If it weren’t for the shenanigans of certain Western governments and the Shah’s personal reluctance to crackdown on islamists, Iran would no doubt be a modern society today.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...i-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution
That’s far too sympathetic a view of the Shah’s miss-rule during this period (almost to to the point of misrepresenting the actual history).
Essentially under the Shahs Iran was an ineffective police state attempting to destroy their enemies through repression and terror but instead fuelling resentment and hatred and alienating almost everyone within Iran.
Western governments propped up the Shah but he was responsible for his own actions and he “lost” Iran in that sense; and in relation to his actions it was far more a case of too much brutality leaving him with almost no allies left to support him rather than not being tough enough.
The Islamists then brutally turned on the rest of Iranian society (that had also been part of the revolution and happy to see the end of the Shah) once they had captured the leavers of power.
Its amazing how you can type so many words yet repeat nothing but idiotic falsehoods, Islamist/Communist propaganda, and just straight up gaslighting. And I can instantly tell you are not Iranian because no Iranian with more than 2 working brain cells would actually believe this garbage. The Shah and his father were both patriots who worked tirelessly to improve their nation and to prevent it and its people from being repressed by foreign powers. They gave women equal rights, built the first proper railroads, schools, universities, hospitals, boosted illiteracy, nationalized the oil industry, made Iranian society a meritorious one where anyone could succeed regardless of ethnicity or religion, and united a completely fractured nation whose territory was under occupation by foreign powers and rebel groups.
I can say with full confidence that without the Pahlavi dynasty, Iran would hardly even exist. Maybe best case scenario it would be another Afghanistan.
Essentially under the Shahs Iran was an ineffective police state attempting to destroy their enemies through repression and terror but instead fuelling resentment and hatred and alienating almost everyone within Iran.
Literally word-for-word Islamist propaganda. There's literally ZERO evidence for any of this. Up until the revolution, the vast majority of people adored the Shah, my family included(and no we were not rich nor members of the so called 'elite'). Even afterwards a significant portion of the population was sympathetic but was too scared to admit it.
Western governments propped up the Shah but he was responsible for his own actions and he “lost” Iran in that sense;
Western governments thought the Shah was some naïve, vapid puppet who they could use to further their interests. Once the oil crisis happened, they realized that he was genuinely a patriot who, when push came to shove, would act in his nations interest's first, and jumped at the opportunity to remove him. Hence, their support of Khomeini, who they believed was a useful idiot. Unfortunately for them, Khomeini turned out to just be an idiot and a staunchly anti-Western one at that.
and in relation to his actions it was far more a case of too much brutality leaving him with almost no allies left to support him rather than not being tough enough.
What on earth are you on about?! The Shah literally told the army from the beginning not to harm the people and literally abdicated his throne in order to avoid cracking down on them! What kind of a "brutal" King would do that? Especially considering the Army was still relatively intact at that moment and could have easily ended the Revolution.
There were plenty of people in the U.S. government who were willing to support the Shah(Brzezinski and Haig for instance) but were overruled by those who wanted their own puppets in power. The Imperial Armed Forces were pretty much fully behind him but were convinced by Heiser not to step in and end the riots.
I'm going to end this by apologizing to the mods for taking this thread off topic, but as someone who has had family members tortured and executed by Anti-Shah Islamists, I cannot stand it when people repeat their propaganda. Its absolutely infuriating that these beliefs are still commonplace today. And I can tell you that even though its been 40 years since his passing, the majority of people in Iran are thankful for what the Shah did and would take him back in a heartbeat.
