What's it ? He 162, Me 263/Ju 248 or Ju EF 126 ?

[kiradog]

This is the standard text published on this EF 126 design:Heinz Schreiber. As the aircraft was not equipped with an engine at this time, it was towed by a Ju88G6. During the second non-powered test flight on 21.05.1946 the EF126-V1 crashed on landing at Dessau. The Junkers test pilot Matthies was killed during that accident.

Some modifications were introduced at the four other EF126s and in June 1946 the remaining four aircraft were ready to fly. In Summer 1946 the EF126 were inspected by a Russian governmental commission. Due to the small range, the minimum gun fire and the missing armors they were not satisfied with the EF126 design. However at least three EF126 (-v2, -v3 and -v4) were transfered to Russia for further flight trials in September 1946.

The EF126 development seemed to have been continued in Russia, at least the EF126-V5 was first flown on 16.03.1947, again a non-powered flight towed by a Ju88 as in Dessau. A total of 12 flights with a flight time of totally 3 hours and 15 minutes were performed in 1947 by the -V3 and the -V5 On 20.06.1948 the Russian Aviation Ministry advised the stop of any further development of the EF126.

Yet in the new Wings of the Black Cross No. 9 there is a series of 4 photos taken with US troops in Kessel showing 5 completed fuselages of the EF 126. This project seems to be further along then previous published information.

Has anyone else seen these photos and can comment on them.

Gary

 

[kiradog]

Surprised there has been no comments.

I've added one of the 4 images from Wings of the Black Cross #9 from Eagle Editions

 

[Jemiba]

Actually, I can see no clues, that those aircraft were built before the end of the war In Europe
and not only after the war under soviet leadership, as 5 aircraft are said to have been ordered
by the soviets.

 

[kiradog]

As I said earlier these photos were taken by US troops. There are photos in the group that show a P-61 in background and with US troops examining the EF-126 aircraft. Something I thoink would be impossible if these were taken in 1946/47. Images also show assembly of manned Fi-130R's, BMW 003 engine stockpile, Me-262 tail assemblies and Ju-388 fuselage.

 

[kiradog]

Look at the wings in the background of the photo. Me 262 wings? They don't quite look right.

 

[Artie Bob]

The Junkers facility at Bernburg was producing He 162s prior to the capture by USA Forces. The various post capture reports note a number of partially complete He 162s found at that location. My guess is these were He 162 fuselages, not EF 126. Normally, if the EF 126 had progressed beyond mockup stage, RLM would have assigned an 8-Nummer. Could a confusing factor be that reversing the last two digits gives you a 126 out a 162 and that He types were found at a Ju plant?
Best Regards,
Artie Bob

 

[kiradog]

Canopy is not the same if you compare the EF 126 picture to the He 162

 

[kiradog]

Here is one of the other shots with US troops.

 

[Michel Van]

the Gerhard-Fieseler-Werke GmbH in Kassel, near end of world war 2
build parts for V1 and He 162 production line for Mittelwerk at Nordhausen
and Me 262 parts for REIMAHG production site at Kahla
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10740.0.html


could it be that EF 126 had to be build in planed Aircraft production site B4 or B12 in Mittelwerk ?
or even that EF 126 had to defend Mittelwerk ?

 

[Jemiba]

Sorry for my persistence, but looking at the thickness of the wing, at the wingchord,
the diameter of the fuselage and the size of the soldiers besides that fuselage, I think,
it could have been the fuselage of a Ju 248 (Me 263). There could have been up to five
aircraft of this type as well at the end of the war.

 

[Stargazer]

Jens, the Me 263 had a three-part canopy, while the aircraft in the mysterious photo has only a two-part canopy...

 

[Jemiba]

In the photo with the US soldiers inspecting the fuselage I really cannot tell, if the canopy is two- or
three part. And in the photos with the two fuselages fitted with canopies, I cannot see US soldiers.
Again, sorry for being the "doubting Thomas", but that would be a somewhat constructed evidence.
BTW, I forgot to mention the wholes in the wing roots of the shown aircraft, typical, I think, for the
installation of the armament in the Ju 248.

 

[kiradog]

I was considering this too. The fuselage looked too big to be powered by pulse jet alone. Was the Gerhard-Fieseler-Werke GmbH in Kassel to build the Ju 246 under contract? The other images show two other similar fuselages in various stages of construction.

 

[kiradog]

Just to clarify the comparison image posted next to the original was not part of the series of photos from Kessel, but pulled from the web.

 

[Grzesio]

I was considering this too. The fuselage looked too big to be powered by pulse jet alone. Was the Gerhard-Fieseler-Werke GmbH in Kassel to build the Ju 246 under contract? The other images show two other similar fuselages in various stages of construction.

I don't think, Fieseler had anything to do with Me 263.
The picture on the left is taken in Husum, I think. The destroyed aircraft in the picture on the right apparently is the Me 263 V2 or V3 blown up in Dessau.

Regards

Grzesio

 

[kiradog]

Herre are the last two images from the series. Both show partial fuselages

 

[Jemiba]

Another argument, that the "examined aircraft" isn't an EF 126, is the absence of any sign of the
nose skid. But if the remains haven't been redistributed on the location during the time the photos
were taken, there really seem to have been more than one prepared fuselages and not only a
mock-up, as stated in several sources.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Sushui structure comparative

 

[Stargazer]

An original company model of the EF 126 from Warbirds Illustrated #52:

 

[hesham]

Here is a Junkers EF.127.02 and EF.127.03.

Jet Planes of the Third Reich - The Secret Projects-volume one

 

[Temistocle]

Sorry for my persistence, but looking at the thickness of the wing, at the wingchord,
the diameter of the fuselage and the size of the soldiers besides that fuselage, I think,
it could have been the fuselage of a Ju 248 (Me 263). There could have been up to five
aircraft of this type as well at the end of the war.

My two cents: I support Jemiba's old post (from 2012), in my opinion the aircraft is a Ju 248/Me 263, due to the presence of a landing gear as in the "real" Me 263 (see the first picture below). The panel lines of the fuselage also appears too different from the EF 126 build in Russia (compare the first image with the following pictures).

 

[Skyraider3D]

Moderators, could this post be renamed please? It's obvious these fuselages are Me 263 (Me 163 D) and He 162-related. They're very interesting but indeed the Ju EF 126 wasn't built until the Soviet time.

 

[Jemiba]

Agreed, could be really misleading otherwise.

 

[Grzesio]

It's obvious these fuselages are Me 263 (Me 163 D)

I don't think the Me 263/Ju 248 was ever called the Me 163 D. The Me 163 D was a longer variant of the Me 163 indeed, but the project was abandoned in 1944 (an the other hand, the Me 263 was a longer version proposed in 1941 too). The so called Me 163 D (or Me 163 "D"), which is directly connected with the Me 263 development, was a designation sometimes applied to an ad hoc rebuilt Me 163 BV 18, used for initial aerodynamic and undercarriage trials for the Me 263 program from December 1944/January 1945. Second Me 163 D example (Me 163 BV 13) was never rebuilt.

 

[Mu17]

Just stumbled across this interesting thread that seems to have forgotten about the original query.
I agree that the large fuselage being examined by soldiers is an Me.263/Ju248.
All the other photos are single seat and some two seat Reichenbergs.

However no one has responded to the original photo of the canopy and its comparison with a standard He.162 shown in post #7
The wings in the background are certainly He.162 and the fuselage looks to be an He.162 and the number of fuselage frames from the canopy to the nose cone is correct.
The forward canopy is He.162 but there can surely be no doubt that the rear canopy is NOT a standard He.162 unit.

I suggest that this is not an EF126, however there are two other possibilities.

1
A fuselage of an Argus engined He.162 with a revised top fuselage line and revised canopy - slightly different to known drawings.

2
A two seat glider trainer - utilising the standard metal He.162 fuselage but with a revised canopy - possibly intended to have a second canopy behind it (i.e. this is NOT the two seat glider known from photos, which had an entirely different wooden fuselage to the standard He.162.)

Whatever the photo shows, it still needs explaining.
Paul

 

[Grzesio]

A two seat glider trainer - utilising the standard metal He.162 fuselage

There is a cannon port visible - so I think it was not a trainer. The construction stage is pretty advanced, so the port would have been already faired in a trainer.

 

[Mu17]

That is a good point you make.
Of course in these desperate times they might have intended to cover the cannon port with fabric at a later stage - however I think you are correct.
So the probability is that its an He.162 Argus pulsejet powered prototype.
Alternatively, could the revised canopy be intended to improve airflow into alternative engines ?
Paul