Weymann / Weymann-Le Père Aircraft and Projects

[hesham]

Hi,

who can identify those two Weymann aircraft ?.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1930/untitled0 - 1515.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1934/1934 - 0107.html

 

[toura]

re hello
Your first aircraft is a weymann lepeire 52
engine renault 140hp
This plane was construct after the unsuccesful
byeweymann 50

 

[toura]

hello
Tank you for your mail
All my responses came from an old french magazine
"aviation magasine" dated 1979.
bye

weymann 52 year1930 1 ex "tourisme"
i engine renault 4ph 95hp
span 12.5 m
length 9.3 m
height 3.10 m
empty 470 kgs full 750 kgs
speed 150 km/h

 

[Apophenia]

Another shot of the model 52 "flying boat on wheels" (original from 'The Aeroplane', 3 Dec 1930). Thanks as always, Hesham, for the Flight link.

The company name was Weymann-LePère (Societé des Avions). Charles Terres Weymann was an American. Capt. Georges LePère (LUSAC-11, etc.) was the designer for the Société Aviméta, a Schneider subsidiary.

I notice that Flight says that "the whole cabin arrangement looks more like the interior of a car" (and a similar comment about the windscreen). There's a simple explanation for that. Charles Weymann was better known for his 'metal-panelled' auto coachwork than for his aircraft.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dears Jemiba,Toura and Apophenia.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

we know Weymann W-1 single seat fighter prototype of 1916,
does anyone know the Weymann metal wing colonial biplane
of 1918 ?, which was powered by one engine.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


CTW-40 was light transport aircraft project.
WEL-70 was recce aircraft project.
WEL-81 was also recce aircraft project,derivative of WEL-80.
CTW-132 was a light transport aircraft,obviously based on CTW-130.


http://www.vignaud.org/Gestion_BD/Recherche.php


I think we must transfer this topic to Early Aircraft Projects section.

 

[toura]

miscellaneous Weymann from "aviation magazine

 

[toura]

and......

 

[Stargazer]

Too many different types here.

I must say, toura, that you really need to use the search engine before posting random pictures like that in a dedicated topic.

We already had four topics dealing with these Weymann types, most of which you reposted here...

• Weymann biplane colonial aircraft of 1918
• Weymann-Le Père Type 66 "colonial" aircraft
• French 1930 colonial competition
• Weymann CTW.130, CTW.131 and CTW.231

 

[hesham]

Great pictures my dear Toura.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


I heard that,the WEL-51 was ordered in two aircraft prototypes,but never completed,
am I right ?.

 

[memaerobilia]

Found this list somewhere on the Intenet-Forget where?

Weymann WEL-10

[/t]

1929​

Reconnaissance
Monoplan parasol.

Weymann WEL-50

1930​

Tourisme
Monoplan aile haute. Moteur propulsif sur pylône.

Weymann WEL-52

1930​

Tourisme
Monoplan aile haute. Moteur propulsif sur pylône.

Weymann CTW-66

1933​

Police coloniale
Biplan. Bipoutre.

Weymann WEL-80

1931​

Reconnaissance
Biplan.

Weymann CTW-100

1933​

Reconnaissance
Biplan.

Weymann CTW-130

1932​

Tourisme
Biplan.

Weymann CTW-131

1932​

Tourisme
Biplan.

Weymann CTW-200

1932​

Autogire de tourisme
Monorotor de sustentation quadripale. Cabine fermée.

Weymann CTW-201

1931​

Autogire de tourisme
Monorotor de sustentation quadripale.

Weymann CTW-210

1931​

Autogire de tourisme
Monorotor de sustentation quadripale.

Weymann CTW-231

1933​

Tourisme
Biplan.
Lots of questions raised. I believe that the CTW-200 Autogire (that is the way Weymann spelled it) was derived from the basic airframe of the CTW-130 biplane. Then the CTW-201 Autogire has very little in common with the CTW-200 autogire. Some of his obscure designs with Weymann Lepere, seem to have been incluenced by the company they absorbed, Aviamet. I find it odd that they went from simple strut bracing to the maze of wire bracing, from the design of the WEL-50 to the WEL-52. Photos of Weymann or Weymann Lapere aircraft are hard to find
Does anyone have any other models to add or photo suorce references? Spent a couple of days browsing for history but not much out there, it would seem. There is more info on Weymann's important participation in the pre-WWI major air events and competitions, and a bit on his Schneider Cup involvement. He was quite an imporant figure in early aviation history

 

[hesham]

Hi Memaerobilia,


there is also a strange Project to Weymann,but no one heard about it;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8811.msg78684.html#msg78684

Threads merged

 

[toura]

Hi Hesham
Thanks for your last mails
And here from an old "aviation magazine"
the Weymann w 1

 

[memaerobilia]

My Weymann research continues.
In a bit of aviation "archeology," I have found several old boxes of Original French glass stereo diapositives. All seem to be at/from the Weymann Company circa 1933-34. Some are in poor conditon,. some have been photographed with poor lenses/exposures etc. These are obviously a private set, rather than one of the commercial glass stereo slide group offerings of the period.
According to the dwgs found by Toura, (and photos in Janes 1930-33)it does not "quite" fit the WEL 50. but is certainly not the WEL52, Differences from the 50 dwg show the plane in the photo to have another window, aft of the door. It also has the longer nose in front of windshield, that is more similar to the 52. Finally... there can be NO confusing a 50 and 52, as the 50 has a completely different, riveted, metal wing, unlike the fabric covered wing of the 52. Also 50 has solid struts and 52 has wire bracing. Look at the wonderful riveted metal design of the 50 (and the one in my photos) It is possible that there are no internal ribs, and it is "possibly" a design using rivet-together sections that form external wing ribs. (*Much like the Emigh Trojan, of some 15 years later). Again, the tail surfaces of the 50 and 52 are completely different shape.Nothing but a "guess' but could it be the missing Model 51? Or is it simply a modified 50?
As to referring to the WEL 50, as "unsuccessful," I have photographic evidence that it did fly. Almost all of Weymann's designs were one of a kind aircraft, and did not go into mutiple construction, with a few exceptions, even THEN, limited.

 

[hesham]

Good search Memaerobilia.

 

[memaerobilia]

Another Weymann Lepere autogyro.
This one is a 1929 all metal, enclosed cabin. Still trying to put a "WEL" (Weymann-Lapere) model number to it. Source of photo is the "Vingt Cinq Ans D'Aeronautique Francaise, Volume II." One reference says it is derived from Cierva 18, but does not look much like it to me.

 

[dan_inbox]

What is your source for "derived from Cierva 18"?

Another version is that there was a single Cierva C-18 built, construction of which was outsourced by Cierva to Weymann-Lepère.
Which seems to be also the opinion of this interesting blog: http://alasvirtuales.blogspot.ch/2011/02/cierva-autogiros.html
"La designación C.18 recayó en un autogiro con cabina cerrada biplaza construido en 1929 en Francia por Weymann-Lèpere. El único ejemplar fabricado, propulsado por un motor Salmson AC7 de 195 hp."

Your photo looks like the genuine item to me.

 

[Stargazer]

It IS the elusive Weymann-Le Père C.18 indeed, also known inhouse as the CTW.20.

Here is another photo of that rare bird, one of the most obscure Cierva types:

 

[memaerobilia]

The boxes of glass stero slides, that I found from of different Weymann company aircraft, had about a half dozen dfferent autogiros, including some Ciervas (another assumption") becasue I have not had time to check their registration numbers. Several are purely CTW models that are marked on tail, but several of them had British registrations, and several had French registrations. There are photos of one or two giroplanesthat appear to be in the middle of major modifications, ad he had some Cievas there, I believe..most of the planes he built were one of a kind. My source that it was 'derived' was perhaps an incorrect "assumption?" The C.18 reference was from www.rotorcraft.nl wth a line reference of :

G-AAIH

Weymann-Lepere / Cierva 18 [gyro]

18

G-AAIH,N.....

 

[Stargazer]

The C.18 reference was from www.rotorcraft.nl wth a line reference of :

G-AAIH

Weymann-Lepere / Cierva 18 [gyro]

18

G-AAIH,N.....

Cierva had a unique system of designations whereby the manufacturers who built Cierva-type autogiros were allocated a number within Cierva's model number sequence (see: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13436.msg132998.html#msg132998).

And so the reference you quote seems perfectly normal: G-AAIH was the Weymann-Lepère/Cierva (C.)18, just like G-ABLM was the De Havilland/Cierva C.24 or G-ABTO the Comper/Cierva C.25.

 

[Kdmoo]

Previously unknown type, the Weymann-Lepere WEL 63 trimotor.

 

[Stargazer]

Previously unknown type, the Weymann-Lepere WEL 63 trimotor.

One of my favorite words of English (and one which has no one-word equivalent in my language) is "serendipity": a sudden, pleasant and unexpected discovery. Well... this WEL 63 is just that: a sweet, sweet serendipity! Thanks a lot Kdmoo.

 

[memaerobilia]

Yes; That is my WEL 63 scan, from the over 100 glass stereo slides from the Weymann and Weymann-Lepere hangar and factory, that I found in France. That scan started my research. I was initially intrigued by the tail identification of WEL 63, not knowing a company whose spelling started with those three letters? Then discovered it was the combination of Weymann and Lepere.. and from that.. able to identify most of the other photos and planes.
It was quite exciting to discover a "lost" type aircraft. In Google and bing searches there was not only Not even one photo, but not even one listing or mention of, or referrence to, the type 63 in any text or web searches. Lots of lost history it would seem.

I have been busy researching them, as previously mentioned. I was intending to post it here, following my use of the photo as an identification challenge series, on theaerodrome forum, which just ended.
Not only decent photos of some of the above known Weymann types, (for example the riveted metal wing rib sections on the model 50, as I have shown.) Then there are quite a number of photos of the company’s own CTW autogires, and some of its Ciervas, (Cierva C-19 MkII) as well. It even includes photos of other type planes owned by Weymann, (Such as his 1930 Potez 36.10) and some of his famous exotic cars at the hangar. (Weymann was quite famous for his unique design auto bodies for everything from Duesenbergs, to Bugattis, and many more famous, elegant Classics cars.)

 

[hesham]

Thank you Kdmoo,


but we know only Weymann CTW-66,first time to hear about Model-63 ?.

 

[Stargazer]

but we know only Weymann CTW-66,first time to hear about Model-63 ?.

I think Kdmoo pretty much answered your question when he posted it:

Previously unknown type, the Weymann-Lepere WEL 63 trimotor.

 

[Kdmoo]

Joe, thanks for posting it on the aerodrome quiz. I was excited as well. Hope to see more from your collection.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

there was also WEL-60,a three motors colonial transport aircraft,powered by three 230 hp
Hispano-Suiza engines.

 

[hesham]

From Aerophile 1919,

here is a strange drawing to Weymann fighter,the actually built in 1915 was
different ?,so maybe it was a Project.

 

[hesham]

By the way,

the Wel-60 was a high-wing colonial police monoplane of 1930,failed to fly in this year,and powered by three 250 hp Wright-Hispano 9 Qa engines,mounted above the wing as Wel-63.

TU magazine

 

[hesham]

Previously unknown type, the Weymann-Lepere WEL 63 trimotor.

My dear Kdmoo,

I think the wrote on its tail fin for this airplane was a registration number only,and not a designation
number,because it was very similar to Wel-60 as I mentioned,and maybe it was the only aircraft built
in this shape as I thought ?.

 

[hesham]

the Wel-60 was a high-wing colonial police monoplane of 1930,failed to fly in this year,and powered
by three 250 hp Wright-Hispano 9 Qa engines,mounted above the wing as Wel-63.

From Ailes 1930