Vertical flat engine (Puch Aviation Engine)

[Norse]

Is there a box for engine that is vertically mounted? If not how would it perform

 

[Scott Kenny]

Is there a box for engine that is vertically mounted? If not how would it perform

I suspect it wouldn't be as powerful as a conventional flat engine, the oil building up in the lower bank would cause problems similar to radial engines. Lots of oil consumption, always leaking oil.

 

[Norse]

But a lot more aerodynamic cowling and probably water cooled?

 

[Arjen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Gipsy_Major

The De Havilland Gipsy Major 31

DH Gipsy Major in flight, powering a DHC-1

 

[Norse]

It's air cooled!

 

[Arjen]

Compare with the DB 600/601/603 series inverted V-12s. And other German inverted V-12s of WW2.

 

[Jemiba]

To me, the point here seems to be, that a boxer engine is mounted vertically. Not sure, if this was tried before, because the mass balance of the pistons may be different to a horizontally mounted eingine.

 

[Arjen]

Napier Dagger 24-cylinder H-pattern engines were mounted with 2 cylinder banks pointing up, 2 down. If I've understood correctly, the Dagger was akin to two flat V-12s mounted side by side.
Hawker Hector:

Napier Dagger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Arjen]

Napier solved the engine cooling for 16- and 24-cylinder engines, so what looks like a Puch 4-cylinder engine should not pose a problem cooling-wise. A 4-cylinder boxer should run smoothly, but 'should' and 'will' are different worlds.

 

[Tonton-42]

I suspect it wouldn't be as powerful as a conventional flat engine, the oil building up in the lower bank would cause problems similar to radial engines. Lots of oil consumption, always leaking oil.

What is the problem ?

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[Scott Kenny]

What is the problem ?

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The bottom cylinders of a radial are a potential hydraulic lock on startup (that's why you see American bomber crews pulling their engines around by hand before startup in WW2, to make sure no cylinders are full enough to lock), and they tend to burn a lot of oil. Plus, the bottom cylinder's valve gear space tends to fill with oil and then leak.

 

[Foo Fighter]

Leyland L60, also a verticaly opposed boxer engine.

 

[Tonton-42]

The bottom cylinders of a radial are a potential hydraulic lock on startup (that's why you see American bomber crews pulling their engines around by hand before startup in WW2, to make sure no cylinders are full enough to lock), and they tend to burn a lot of oil. Plus, the bottom cylinder's valve gear space tends to fill with oil and then leak.

Certainly, but it has always been known that you have to shoot down the engines before starting, whatever vehicles in particular some tanks, it has nothing to do with the power they can develop ! Moreover, the most powerful mass-produced aircraft engines were radial air-cooled engines !

Pratt & Whitney R-4360 — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org

 

[1635yankee]

Leyland L60, also a verticaly opposed boxer engine.

A vertically-mounted opposed-piston engine. Not the same thing at all. Most OP engines are mounted with the pistons running vertically.

 

[Foo Fighter]

A vertically-mounted opposed-piston engine. Not the same thing at all. Most OP engines are mounted with the pistons running vertically.

I think you mean rotated mount. I get what you are saying but not at the same time. Most boxer engines are laterally opposed rather than vertically opposed as in the VW types.

 

[Foo Fighter]

BTW, the L60 has pistons oerating vertically rather than from side to side. So, the same thing that you are talking about.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Certainly, but it has always been known that you have to shoot down the engines before starting, whatever vehicles in particular some tanks, it has nothing to do with the power they can develop ! Moreover, the most powerful mass-produced aircraft engines were radial air-cooled engines !

Pratt & Whitney R-4360 — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org

That's because the radials had at least double the displacement of the inlines. A Merlin is only 1650 cubic inches, the classic Allison is 1710.

 

[Scott Kenny]

BTW, the L60 has pistons oerating vertically rather than from side to side. So, the same thing that you are talking about.

Opposed-piston engines, where the crankshafts are at the top and bottom of the engine and the pistons meet in the middle, are a very different architecture to a flat engine like a VW or Porsche (or Subaru) with the crankshaft in the center.

 

[Foo Fighter]

I was talking about the orientation of the engine when I mentioned the VW flat four or the flat six Porsche motors. The L60 does as you describe, vertically.

 

[Nicknick]

This is a H-engine with two crankshafts and the cam in the middle. The camshaft drives the prop.

I'm not sure, if it is a H engine with two two cylinder boxer engines or two 180 deg V-engines. With counterrotating crank shafts, full mass balancing would be possible even in the 180 deg version, but it would require heavy counterweights (100 % rot + 100 % oszillating).

 

[Scott Kenny]

I was talking about the orientation of the engine when I mentioned the VW flat four or the flat six Porsche motors. The L60 does as you describe, vertically.

Completely different architectures between opposed piston types (crankshafts at each end) and boxers (crankshaft in the middle), whether the two are mounted the same way or not.

 

[Foo Fighter]

I am obviously missing ther football pitch, perhaps I should take a few days.

Sorry folks.

Maybe later.