Various Gotha projects

[hesham]

Hallo,

some Gotha projects:
P.35 twin engined transport aircraft,P.39 three engined transport aircraft,P.40
asymmetric transport aircraft and P.46 assault glider.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Gotha Go-244A was single engined twin boom transport aircraft,a
version of Go-244.

 

[Jemiba]

"Nice photo of Go 242 A-2"

Here are two photos of the mentioned Go 242 testbed :
(from LUFTFAHRT monographie LS2)

 

[redstar72]

Has anybody some info about this project? Is it real? Very beautiful aircraft, resembling He 112B which I like very much. And this picture is too different from actual Go 149 prototypes, as they are shown at http://www.histaviation.com/Gotha_Go_149.html.

 

[Jemiba]

Comparing the two pictures, I would think, that the one from "Aircraft of the Luftwaffe"
is just a redrawn version of the one from histaviation.com, done with a bit of phantasy,
changing the shape of the nose and fitting a retractable landing gear. The Göppingen
Gö 9, for example, looks more elegant, than the real thing, too.

 

[Stargazer]

Quite a few interesting Gotha-related topics on this forum:

• Gotha Go 345 Transport & Precision Landing aircraft
• Flitzer's Gotha Go P 8 artwork
• Flitzer's Gotha Go P 14 artwork
• Flitzer's Gotha Go P 20 artwork
• Gotha Go P 20
• Gotha Go P 35 and P 39 transport projects
• Gotha Go P 52
• Gotha Go P 55 Flying Bomb
• Gotha Go P 60
• 1/72 Gotha Go P 60C card model
• Kalkert Ka 430 cargo glider

Feel free to add to the list if I forgot something!

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Gotha P.40 asymmetric light transport aircraft project;


http://www.oocities.org/asymmetrics/go40.htm

 

[Jemiba]

Go 149 and P.16

In "Der Flieger", March 1961, I've found 3-views of the Gotha Go 149 and the P.16-001 a development
of the P.149 into a light fighter.
Two prototypes of Go 149 were actually built as single seat advanced fighter trainer. The type wasn't
ordered into production, nevertheless Gotha offered a modified version, the Go 149 L as light fighter
and ground attack aircraft. The original retractable landing gear was replaced by a fixed type and
instead of the Argus As 10C an As-411 would have been used.
The next step as a light fighter was the P.16-001, again fitted with a retractable landing gear.

data:

Go 149: span 7.8 m, length 7.31 m, speed 345km/h,
P.16: span 8.5 m, length 7.96 m, speed 350km/h, armament 2 m guns (probably 20 mm)

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-4 trainer

From "Der Flieger", March 1961 a 3-view of the P-4-003, a development of the Go 145
with folding wings and single strut landing gear.
Given data: Span 11 m, length 9.5 m, height 3.5 m, Argus As-17A engine

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-3 Destroyer

From "Der Flieger", March 1961, two versions of the P-3 destroyer, the first, -001, with a span of 16m
and a length of 11.1 m, the second -002, slightly larger with gull wings and a span of 17 m and a length
of 12.8 m,. Both were driven by fuselage mounted Jumo or DB engines, driving the propellers via shafts.

 

[Wurger]

Great, Jens, thanks for sharing! I didn`t know about the P-4-003. Is it wishful thinking or that P-4-003 has an arrester hook?

 

[hesham]

Amazing projects my dear Jemiba,


and for P.16,it was powered by one 465 hp Argus As-410 engine.

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-9, Training- and Sportsaircraft

P-09, sports and traing aircraft.

P-9-001: Training aircraft, powered by a 4 cylinder HM-60R engine, length 8 m, span 8.8 m
P-9-007: Sports aircraft, powered by BMW Xa radial engine, length 7.05 m, span 10.4 m

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-10 Touring-/Light Transport AIrcraft

An improved version of the Go 150, the P-10-003 would have had more powerful engines,
a span of 11.20 m, length 7.40 m, two seats.

 

[hesham]

Many great thanks to you my dear Jemiba,


and for the P.10,it was powered by two 240 hp Argus As 10C engines.

 

[Wurger]

Hei Jens, keep uploading Gotha projects, please, if there is more in that magazine!

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-8 Light Destroyer Aircraft

Dealt with already here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10404.msg97822.html#msg97822
by Flitzer with his superb artwork, a 3-view abd some data was in "Der Flieger", March 1961, too:
Light destroyer a/c, powered by two Argus As-10C engines, length 8.67 m, span 11 m, height 2.7 m

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-11, Training Aircraft

2-seat training aircraft with side-by-side seating, powered by a 100 hp HM-504 eingine,
length 6.46 m, span 10.4 m, height 1.76 m. developed to participate in the NSFK competition
(1938 ?) for a modern ab-initio trainer.

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-12, Touring Aircraft

P-12-001, pre-study for the Go 241 private touring aircraft. Powerd by two 100 hp
engines (type not mentioned), length 6.4 m, span 12 m

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-17, Training Aircraft

Single seat training aircraft, especially for flying clubs, Zündapp engine,
length 6.15 m, span 7.5 m, height 1.55 m

 

[Jemiba]

Gotha P-21, Training Aircraft

Developement of the P-17 with larger wing and more powerful engine, intended as
aerial target, too. ength 9.8 m, span 15.3 m, height 2.1 m

 

[hesham]

My dear Jemiba,you made my day;


and P.17 was powered by one 50 hp Zundapp 092 engine,and P.21 was powered by
one 100 hp HM 504 engine.

 

[Wurger]

Thanks, Jens, for sharing your stuff. That makes me eager to share something too! I guess I`ll go to the naval projects forum...

 

[lark]

You hit a Bonanza Jens..!

Many thanks.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the P.46,a twin boom high wing light transport monoplane,it was powered by one Jumo 200 enginemounted in the nose,and had a fixed tricycle undercarriage.

 

[hesham]

From Jet & Prop 6/1998,


here is the Gotha Go-147 original design 3-view with its mock-up,and the Go-147 V.2
which never pass a drawing board,with the actually built.

 

[Retrofit]

Thanks Hesham for those drawings!

In his book "The planes of the Third Reich" Edition 1986, William Green mentionned that the Go-147 "was considered as () an aerodynamic test-bed for a projected twin-engined fighter with fore and aft power plants".

Is there more information available on this Gotha push-pull fighter project?

 

[Wurger]

Retrofit said:

"In his book "The planes of the Third Reich" Edition 1986, William Green mentionned that the Go-147 "was considered as () an aerodynamic test-bed for a projected twin-engined fighter with fore and aft power plants".

Is there more information available on this Gotha push-pull fighter project?"

Well put, Retrofit! That would be very interesting to know. This aircraft company has no historian, I believe, although it had much history behind. Take AGO, for instance: it had a much smaller pat in german aerospace industry, but is going to have a full dedicated book by August.

Fieseler, Siebel, Bücker, Klemm are also interesting companies lacking published references, at least covering projected aircraft types.
Does anyone know about incoming books on these ( or other german related ) subjects?

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Retrofit,


and for my dear Wurger,if we don't have a drawing to this push-pull fighter project,
we can imagine its shape,who can do that ?.

 

[Jemiba]

... we can imagine its shape,who can do that ?

With no data apart from the similarity to the Go 147 and the statement, that it would have had
a push-pull engine arangement (at least, that's what I would suppose), we would have to guess
around 95 %. Could have been similar to the Westland Pterodactyl V/VI, with the rear turret
replaced by a pusher engine, but that's just a wild guess, too.

Does anyone know about incoming books on these ( or other german related ) subjects?

There's "Flugzeuge der GWF Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG", for example here
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Flugzeuge-GWF-Gothaer-Waggonfabrik-AG-Air-Plane-Luftfahrt-/221460591945
and as that site shows some pages, including the index, I've saw a chapter "Projekte" (projects)
mentioned. But if it really contains interesting news, I don't know. But perhaps someone else ?

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Jemiba,


but just a sketch may be.

 

[hesham]

From; Secret Nazi Aircraft 1939 -1945 Luftwaffe's Advanced Aircraft Projects


they mention that the Gotha P.43 was a fighter and I think that is a misprint (P.53),but in
the description of it,they speak about Gotha P.49,as a fighter of course,I never heard about
it at all ?.

 

[Avimimus]

So, six Argus pulsejets to extend glide range, air-brakes, a parachute and a retro-rocket??? Ah... interesting.


The part I wonder about is using the pulse-jets: How fuel efficient could they be? How much money is saved through having six of them (instead of one conventional engine)? How much power was this expected to produce? Would the vibrations interact well with the retro-rocket......?


The part I don't wonder about is the crazy part.

 

[hesham]

I am very confuse,

and that's more stranger,if it was a misprint,how he change Horten IX into Gotha P.49 ?! ,
so maybe there is unknown project to us,couldn't be ?.

 

[hesham]

For Gotha P.49,


I can't judge until we ask David Crocker himself about his source,if he said;it's a misprint or a mistake,
then I can say,there is no P.49.

 

[newsdeskdan]

For Gotha P.49,


I can't judge until we ask David Crocker himself about his source,if he said;it's a misprint or a mistake,
then I can say,there is no P.49.

What does the rest of Crocker's ebook tell you about his sources? Does he seem like a paragon of reliability in other areas? I've had that ebook a long time - I was one of the first to buy it. Then he took it down, then put it back with more Wiki stuff in it (I bought it again). Then it was altered a third time with more web links in it. Yeesh.

 

[Stargazer]

Oh, and here are the images referred to in the report:

Truly, I say, you are spoiling us, newsdeskdan!

Another contemporary drawing that might suit this topic: (not from German Aircraft: New and Projected Types this time).

Thanks! There is actually a topic on the subject here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2733.0
where this would best belong (the "Various..." topics are for types we don't have a lot about or which don't have a topic yet).

 

[hesham]

Hi,

in 1937,the Luftwaffe announced for a competition to produce a ground attack airplane,
the tenders were; Focke-Wulf FW.189,Henschel P.46 (later Hs.129,the winner),Blohm
and Voss P.40 and Gotha P.?,who know the Gotha proposal ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

in 1937,the Luftwaffe announced for a competition to produce a ground attack airplane,
the tenders were; Focke-Wulf FW.189,Henschel P.46 (later Hs.129,the winner),Blohm
and Voss P.40 and Gotha P.?,who know the Gotha proposal ?.

To be honest,

I am anther search and discovered that,the Gotha did not respond to this contender
after they asked it.

HS129 Panzerjager

 

[hesham]

The P.50 I drawing.