Please identify who owns the Russian design presumably 1937-1939 years: How to strike complexes "flying bomb" in the fighter-towing and gunner, connected to a twin-boom glider-bomb. The head of the beams, two bombs FAB-1000.
Vakhmistrov composite flying bombs
- Thread starter igor-mich
- Start date
This was one of the two strike composites
designed by Vladimir Sergeyevich Vakhmistrov.
The second design used the same fighter with
a pulsejet powered flying torpedo below.
source : Air Enthusiast No.84 November/December 1989.
designed by Vladimir Sergeyevich Vakhmistrov.
The second design used the same fighter with
a pulsejet powered flying torpedo below.
source : Air Enthusiast No.84 November/December 1989.
- Joined
- 7 June 2009
- Messages
- 528
- Reaction score
- 140
hesham
Of course not. And I-Z wasn't Vakhmistrov design - it was Grigorovich, only used as part of Vakhmistrov "Zveno".
I-Z here: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/iz.html
And what is "850 hp GPK engine"? I-Z was powered by 480-hp M-22 (licensed Bristol Jupiter).
Or do you mean not this I-Z, but something different?
What is you source for this?
Of course not. And I-Z wasn't Vakhmistrov design - it was Grigorovich, only used as part of Vakhmistrov "Zveno".
I-Z here: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww1/iz.html
And what is "850 hp GPK engine"? I-Z was powered by 480-hp M-22 (licensed Bristol Jupiter).
Or do you mean not this I-Z, but something different?
What is you source for this?
Attachments
W
Wingknut
Guest
Sorry if this strays off-topic but I gather there was a proposal c. 1937 for a Zveno-related parasite-fighter (rather like a Polikarpov I-16) called the Grigorivich (or Grigorovich) I-ZW.
See article 'The Parasite Fighters' at: http://www.vectorsite.net/avparsit.html
(Attached image comes from the article.)
See article 'The Parasite Fighters' at: http://www.vectorsite.net/avparsit.html
(Attached image comes from the article.)
Attachments
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 33,482
- Reaction score
- 13,530
No it is not true,
in the book, Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft,it is
anther project,and it was not related to Grigorovich or
I-16 ,the later as modified for Vakhmistrov Z-7.
more info,Vakmistrov began its drawing in 1934-35,weight
1910 kg,only 7,75m span and speed 518 km/h,no landing
gear except centreline skid,prototype started but discontinued
1936 at start of purges.
in the book, Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft,it is
anther project,and it was not related to Grigorovich or
I-16 ,the later as modified for Vakhmistrov Z-7.
more info,Vakmistrov began its drawing in 1934-35,weight
1910 kg,only 7,75m span and speed 518 km/h,no landing
gear except centreline skid,prototype started but discontinued
1936 at start of purges.
W
Wingknut
Guest
Maybe so. The article above cites Colonel Vladimir Lesnitchenko's "Combat Composites: Soviet Use of 'Mother-Ships' to Carry Fighters, 1931-1941", Air Enthusiast No.84, November/December 1999, pp. 4-21. (Which I haven't been able to obtain.)
- Joined
- 7 June 2009
- Messages
- 528
- Reaction score
- 140
Hesham, you are right! I found this project in Shavrov book, but unfortunately without any pictures.
In contrast to Grigorovich I-Z which is written with Latin letter "Z" (И-Z even in Russian, pronounced like "I-Zet"), this project designation used ordinary Cyrillic Z looking like "3" figure (И-З, pronounced "I-Ze").
This "I-Ze" was an all-metal, low-wing aircraft with inverted gull wing. The engine was radial Gnome-Rhone 9Krs (850 hp power is specified by Shavrov, although this is power of bigger GR 14K / M-85 and GR 9K was only 550-hp, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome-Rh%C3%B4ne_9K). The rest known data are specified in Hesham's post (thanks for him!). Hesham's source mentions a centreline landing skid, which looks strange enough with such wing configuration. Shavrov noted two landing skids placed in wing bends, which is more logical. Another specific design features were retractable skyhook system and a special mechanism allowing to stop two-blade propeller in horizontal position (to avoid its damaging during emergency landing).
Source: Shavrov V.B. History of aircraft designs in USSR before 1938. – Moscow, 1986 (3rd edition). – P.543-544 (http://eroplan.boom.ru/shavrov/chr9/fighter/fight4.htm).
This seems to be the same project as described at http://www.vectorsite.net/avparsit.html, though it's probably wrongly connected there to Grigorovich ("Grigorivich" is obviously a misprint). The connection to Zveno Z-7 is also doubtful: Z-7 was a combination of TB-3 and three I-16s, all three mating with carrier aircraft during flight as well as releasing from it. This Zveno version was tested in November 1939 (pilots Nyukhtikov, Suprun, and Stefanovsky) - much later than "I-Ze" project was cancelled.
In contrast to Grigorovich I-Z which is written with Latin letter "Z" (И-Z even in Russian, pronounced like "I-Zet"), this project designation used ordinary Cyrillic Z looking like "3" figure (И-З, pronounced "I-Ze").
This "I-Ze" was an all-metal, low-wing aircraft with inverted gull wing. The engine was radial Gnome-Rhone 9Krs (850 hp power is specified by Shavrov, although this is power of bigger GR 14K / M-85 and GR 9K was only 550-hp, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome-Rh%C3%B4ne_9K). The rest known data are specified in Hesham's post (thanks for him!). Hesham's source mentions a centreline landing skid, which looks strange enough with such wing configuration. Shavrov noted two landing skids placed in wing bends, which is more logical. Another specific design features were retractable skyhook system and a special mechanism allowing to stop two-blade propeller in horizontal position (to avoid its damaging during emergency landing).
Source: Shavrov V.B. History of aircraft designs in USSR before 1938. – Moscow, 1986 (3rd edition). – P.543-544 (http://eroplan.boom.ru/shavrov/chr9/fighter/fight4.htm).
This seems to be the same project as described at http://www.vectorsite.net/avparsit.html, though it's probably wrongly connected there to Grigorovich ("Grigorivich" is obviously a misprint). The connection to Zveno Z-7 is also doubtful: Z-7 was a combination of TB-3 and three I-16s, all three mating with carrier aircraft during flight as well as releasing from it. This Zveno version was tested in November 1939 (pilots Nyukhtikov, Suprun, and Stefanovsky) - much later than "I-Ze" project was cancelled.
- Joined
- 1 May 2007
- Messages
- 2,531
- Reaction score
- 1,739
The following is from :-
"Combat Composites: Soviet Use of 'Mother-Ships' to Carry Fighters, 1931-1941", Colonel Vladimir Lesnitchenko, Air Enthusiast No.84, November/December 1999, pp. 4-21
On the Vakhmistrov Flying Bombs...
"Vakhmistrov also designed two strike composites. The first one...
carrying two FAB-1000s...was to take off on a jettisonable bogie...
After take off, the glider was to be brought to a target...
Once unoupled, the glider would maintain...heading with it's autopilot.
There is some similarity ...(to)the german 'Mistel', However Vakhmistrov's work
dated back to 1944,"
(before the 'Mistel was known about in the USSR)
This is the original image posted in the first post above, and the version from the article is
posted below.
"As for the second...composite...
it's design was ...connected (to the german) V-1...
Vakmhmistrov ...was quick enough to use the pulsejet in his project for a 'flying torpedo',...
was also to take off on a bogie and be coupled with a fighter..."
The image of this from the article is also posted below.
On the I-ZW, the article has this to say :-
"I-ZW - Pure 'Airborne' Fighter
By that time, (spring 1935) work was undertaken...(to)
design an airborne fighter...called 'The Fighter of Zveno', I-ZW.
Though it looked like...the I-16 from the outside, (it) had different dimensions.
THe cockpit was...further back, and an inverted gull-wing was provided.
The lowest points of the wing were to be as 'skis' (for) an emergency landing,
for the I-ZW had no landing gear...
(although the drawing, see below, shows a centreline mounted wheel)
devices to dump fuel quickly an put the propeller in a horizontal position were
installed to increase safety in a... landing.
The mass and dimension (space) saving (from the removal of the landing gear),
Vakhmistrov proposed to use to 'beef up' the armament (to four machine guns),
while the displacement (aft) of the cockpit would make...space for a...large
ammunition store.
At first, Vakhmistrov took the...hooking-up speed of the fighter as...the mother ship's
speed,...
In that case, the wing area of the fighter could be...as little as 32-53 ft2 (3-5m2),
and record speed(s) could be achieved from...500hp.
But NII-VVS demanded the hook-up speed be reduced to the...landing speed...of the time...
The wing area had to be enlarged to 107ft2...
Vakhmistrov hoped...compensation..with a Tumanskii...M-85 of 850hp...
in...1938 Vakhmistrov presented the...data of a(n unknown to me) record breaking aircraft,
...the original...I-ZW, (and) the (redesigned)I-ZW and I-16 type 10...see table
(reproduced below)
cheers,
Robin.
"Combat Composites: Soviet Use of 'Mother-Ships' to Carry Fighters, 1931-1941", Colonel Vladimir Lesnitchenko, Air Enthusiast No.84, November/December 1999, pp. 4-21
On the Vakhmistrov Flying Bombs...
"Vakhmistrov also designed two strike composites. The first one...
carrying two FAB-1000s...was to take off on a jettisonable bogie...
After take off, the glider was to be brought to a target...
Once unoupled, the glider would maintain...heading with it's autopilot.
There is some similarity ...(to)the german 'Mistel', However Vakhmistrov's work
dated back to 1944,"
(before the 'Mistel was known about in the USSR)
This is the original image posted in the first post above, and the version from the article is
posted below.
"As for the second...composite...
it's design was ...connected (to the german) V-1...
Vakmhmistrov ...was quick enough to use the pulsejet in his project for a 'flying torpedo',...
was also to take off on a bogie and be coupled with a fighter..."
The image of this from the article is also posted below.
On the I-ZW, the article has this to say :-
"I-ZW - Pure 'Airborne' Fighter
By that time, (spring 1935) work was undertaken...(to)
design an airborne fighter...called 'The Fighter of Zveno', I-ZW.
Though it looked like...the I-16 from the outside, (it) had different dimensions.
THe cockpit was...further back, and an inverted gull-wing was provided.
The lowest points of the wing were to be as 'skis' (for) an emergency landing,
for the I-ZW had no landing gear...
(although the drawing, see below, shows a centreline mounted wheel)
devices to dump fuel quickly an put the propeller in a horizontal position were
installed to increase safety in a... landing.
The mass and dimension (space) saving (from the removal of the landing gear),
Vakhmistrov proposed to use to 'beef up' the armament (to four machine guns),
while the displacement (aft) of the cockpit would make...space for a...large
ammunition store.
At first, Vakhmistrov took the...hooking-up speed of the fighter as...the mother ship's
speed,...
In that case, the wing area of the fighter could be...as little as 32-53 ft2 (3-5m2),
and record speed(s) could be achieved from...500hp.
But NII-VVS demanded the hook-up speed be reduced to the...landing speed...of the time...
The wing area had to be enlarged to 107ft2...
Vakhmistrov hoped...compensation..with a Tumanskii...M-85 of 850hp...
in...1938 Vakhmistrov presented the...data of a(n unknown to me) record breaking aircraft,
...the original...I-ZW, (and) the (redesigned)I-ZW and I-16 type 10...see table
(reproduced below)
cheers,
Robin.
Attachments
W
Wingknut
Guest
Excellent posts - for a long time now, I've wanted to know more about the Vakhmistrov glider-bomb projects.
Many thanks, 'Wingknut'
Many thanks, 'Wingknut'
A similar project in the Soviet Union had already existed previously.Retrofit said:
According to the decree GKO (Gosudarstvenny Komitet Oborony = State Committee for Defence) on May 10, 1937 at TsAGI was developed remote-controlled "flying torpedo - Strela / Arrow ". With the participation of A. Moskalev (designer); A. Nadashkevich (a specialist in remote-controlled weapons).
Work on controlled cruise missile stopped after the NKVD (People Commissariat of Internal Affairs, forerunner of the KGB) arrested A. Nadashkevicha.
And Indeed, many thanks Robunos! Again.
In the past year there were two jubilees, is inextricably linked with the design work of Vladimir Vakhmistrov - December 4, celebrated its 80th anniversary of the first flight "Zveno-1" (TB-1 and I-4). And this summer marks 70 years of successful use of combat air coupling - "Zveno S.P.B." a flying aircraft carrier consisting of a Mother Ships/carrier bomber - TB-3 and two I-16 fighters (type 24 with the M-63) with two suspended bombs weighing 250 kg used as dive bombers.
Three projects by Vakhmistrov already known (see above data)
On schemes with strike composites complex as suggestive fighter conventionally shown LaGG-3.
Little information about a competitor Vakhmistrov’s project - "PI-17" or "TsKB-43p" by N.Polikarpov - program "SSI-Z" - super high-speed fighter of Zveno/«ССИ-З» - сверх скоростной истребитель звена (1935):
span – 6,7m
areal wing – 9,13m2
engine – M-100
armament – 2 x ShVAK
MTOW – 1716 kg
Empty w.– 1227 kg
max. speed (on 3000m) – 550-575km/h
Three projects by Vakhmistrov already known (see above data)
On schemes with strike composites complex as suggestive fighter conventionally shown LaGG-3.
Little information about a competitor Vakhmistrov’s project - "PI-17" or "TsKB-43p" by N.Polikarpov - program "SSI-Z" - super high-speed fighter of Zveno/«ССИ-З» - сверх скоростной истребитель звена (1935):
span – 6,7m
areal wing – 9,13m2
engine – M-100
armament – 2 x ShVAK
MTOW – 1716 kg
Empty w.– 1227 kg
max. speed (on 3000m) – 550-575km/h
Attachments
- Joined
- 26 May 2006
- Messages
- 33,482
- Reaction score
- 13,530
From this Russian book.
Attachments
Similar threads
-
Vakhmistrov Unknown Composite Aircraft Projects- Started by hesham
- Replies: 13
-
Radio-controlled bombs made common before WW2- Started by Dilandu
- Replies: 1
-
-
Air to Ground Combat Tactics: Use of PGM on night and poor visibility
- Started by Pit
- Replies: 3
-
Jess Dixon and his "Flying Ginny": an untold helicopter pioneer- Started by Stargazer
- Replies: 9