VAK 191, Development, Variants & Prototypes

[Jemiba]

Just found in an brochure from DaimlerChryslerAerospace. Probably well known,
nevertheless ...

 

[Jemiba]

.. and the supersonic versions :

 

[Matej]

Project well known, but brochure not. Thanx.

 

[elmayerle]

Is it too much to hope that they had a three-view of the proposed two-seat version, too?

 

[elmayerle]

Oh, info on it's predecssor, the VJ-101C, for comparison:

http://www.tomtom-net.de/resources/vj101/vj101.htm

 

[Jemiba]

@ elmayerle : do you mean this two-seater ?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Jemiba: somehow your previous posting attempts caused problems with the forum. If you have particularly large files to post it is best to either (a) make them smaller or (b) send them to me (paul@overscan.co.uk) and I will upload them via FTP.

 

[Jemiba]

Sorry, when I got an error message, I reduced the file size, but still got an error
on the next attempt, before it worked. But I didn't thougt, that pictures of about
80 - 100k are too large. :-[

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Its not the file size, its the dimensions of the image. The script resizes the image to a smaller one for the thumbnail, and in doing that it decompresses the image to uncompressed. if your image is 2500 x 1800 pixels in dimensions, the script errors because it doesn't have enough memory to process such a large image when it is decompressed.

If you resize the image to a maximum of, say, 900-1000 pixels in the longest dimension, you can attach a high-quality copy. If you want to retain the original size of 2000+ pixels, save it as a tif because then it won't try to scale the image for you.

Paul.

 

[Stargazer]

Just a thought: while researching Bell aircraft, I came across this profile view of the projected D-191, a development of the D-188A / "F3L" / "XF-109" designs. I'm just wondering whether this could have been at the very start of the VAK 191 program. Of course the designs are a bit different, but so was D-188 compared to the VTOL D-188A! Besides, the VAK designs are labeled "191B", which indicates earlier configurations. The use of number 191 seems unlikely to be a coincidence. And since the VJ101 is obviously inspired by Bell's D-188A, is there any indication that the VAK 191 could also have its basis in Bell's unbuilt programs?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Purely coincidence on the numbers. Initial VAK 191 design was Fw 1262.

 

[Jemiba]

... and the VAK 191A wasn't an earlier configuration, but a contending design, as were
the C and D (IIRC, the latter was a proposal from Fiat). Similar designations you'll find
for the VJ 101: The A was designed by EWR Süd, the B by Messerschmitt.

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks to both of you for straightening things out and proving my hypothesis wrong!

 

[Barrington Bond]

Warship 2007
Search For A Flattop; The Italian Navy and the Aircraft Carrier 1907 - 2007
Enrico Cernuschi and Vincent P. O'Hara

"During the following decades the Navy expanded its land-based helicopter groups and improved them with new, more powerful machines, despite the budgetary crises of the 1960's which caused the cancellation of the order for Italia and, later, Trieste - a proposed evolution of the Vittorio Veneto design with the capability to embark a new VTOL jet attack plane, the VAK-191, a contemporary of the British P.1227 Harrier proposed by a German-Italian consortium."

The next paragraph mentions Trieste being cancelled in 1969.

Anyone know anymore about shipbourne VAK-191's?!

Regards,
Barry

 

[Barrington Bond]

AW&ST 24 April 1972

 

[brunobardini]

Good night at all,
This is one of the best VTOL with the MIRAGE IIIV and the P1127
I'm searching the original plans whith the cross sections of the VAK 191B.
Especially the factory plans with the cuts and the bulkheads.
To the german community and the american community of this site, Lochkeed had help this project, that's why probably in USA there is probably a person who have seen this plans.
I know where i can find them in Museums but it's too far from me.
I'm able also to buy this plans.
For the members i have already seen the other subject of this plane.
I thank you all in advance for your answers

 

[brunobardini]

Another plans and cuts.

 

[brunobardini]

VFW 1262 Schwebegestell
I'm searching too the original plans of the rig of the VAK 191 B or all the photos you can find.
I can buy the plan if it's necessary.
Thank's a lot.

 

[Mark Nankivil]

Fascinating - thanks! What is the source for these drawings?

Enjoy the Day! Mark

 

[brunobardini]

VTOL AIRCRAFT Mike Rogers
and a site of plans.

http://blueprints.over-blog.es/article-estos-para-variar-un-poco-73870326.html

For the others i'don't remeber!

 

[brunobardini]

Internal

 

[toura]

Hi Brunobardini.
I don't know ! perhaps interesting for you

 

[Aardvark]

Fascinating - thanks! What is the source for these drawings?

VTOL AIRCRAFT Mike Rogers
and a site of plans.
http://blueprints.over-blog.es/article-estos-para-variar-un-poco-73870326.html
For the others i'don't remeber!

These drawings published on Ukrainian aviation magazine "Aviation & time" number 2`2011

http://www.aviation-time.kiev.ua/eng/
The articles not placed on site:
Panorama. (Includes information about issue of the type certificate for the An-158 regional aircraft; combat mission of Ukrainian Mi-24P helicopters in Côte d’Ivoire; familiarization of the Diamond DA-42 MPP NG patrol aircraft by pilots of State frontier forces of Ukraine; deliveries of humanitarian cargoes and special-purpose equipments to Japan by An-225 Mriya and An-124 Ruslan; maiden flight of the second experimental Russian fighter of the fifth generation T-50; use of aircraft in civil war in modern Libya and other reports. 13 photos).
Forefather. (A monograph about the MiG-3 fighter of a period of the Great Patriotic War. This aircraft became a forefather of the famous family of the MiG fighters. 48 photos, colour schemes of 6 aircraft; drawings in scale of 1:72).
Boeing strikes in return. (A story about the Boeing 747-8I, the biggest passenger aircraft of the Boeing company. 1 photo).
Air battle over Chernobyl. (The first part of the article about heroism of the Soviet aviators in liquidation of consequence of the catastrophe at Chernobyl nuclear power plant. 5 photos, scheme of helipads location).
Focke-Wulf of the 4th generation. (The first part of the article about the VAK 191B VTOL jet fighter-bomber. 11 photos, drawings in scale of 1:72).
Chinese Air Dragons. (The 4th part of the article about participation of Soviet fighter pilots in Japanese-Chinese war. A story about events of 1939-40. 4 photos).
Canberra is the bestseller of five continents. (A part of the article about use of British Canberra bombers in Air Forces of other countries, including India, Argentina and Germany. 11 photos).

B.R.
Serge

 

[brunobardini]

Thanks at all!

 

[brunobardini]

Another things

 

[brunobardini]

Wings

 

[Stargazer]

Truly beautiful! Here it is, slightly enhanced until we can get a better scan (the forward end of the fuselage is slightly warped here because of a crease in the original fold-out poster).

 

[brunobardini]

Very good,

 

[brunobardini]

The stick

 

[brunobardini]

Plan

 

[Jemiba]

That design I knew still yet only as a Rolls Royce proposal, see here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4677.msg36916.html#msg36916.

Can you give the source, that brings it in line with the VAK-191 ?

 

[brunobardini]

I'm going to try!

 

[Barrington Bond]

.

 

[Aardvark]

Detail photo VFW VAK-191 in Deutsches Museum:
http://igor113.livejournal.com/136964.html
B.R.
Serge

 

[brunobardini]

Hi,
Like Jemiba now i think it's a Rolls-Royce proposal, But lockheed is the real conceptor of this plane look at the frames, an like the lockheed CL-1980, the A-11 Archangel , the SR-71 and the U2 i have learned recently, all of these planes are Lockheed F-104 Starfighters evolution and the the proof is the cockpit, the instrument panel the nose and some frames of the Vak-191 and also for VJ 101.These two latest ones are modified F-104 starfighters.

 

[Cy-27]

During 1962 and 1963 Germany, Great Britain and Italy agreed on a joint development of tactical VTOL aircraft.
The specifications for the VAK-191 program were derived from the earlier Focke-Wulf Fw.1262 design.

This layout of this original Focke-Wulf design was published in issue 2 of Flieger Review Extra.

For German language speakers there is a major article on German VTOL projects in this issue.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


has anyone a drawing to VFW VAK-191 two seat version?.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Jemiba,


I though it was in tandem position,not side-by-side.

 

[masher47]

There is a good monograph(?) by AIAA written by Albert C Piccirillo titled "German V/STOL Fighter Program: A Quest for Survivability in a Theater Nuclear Environment" (1997). This is 54 pages long and deals with both the VJ101 and Vak191B. Text it interesting and informative, photo quality sucks but drawing are clean. It only refers to the 191 as the B, never a Mk1-3. Additional reading list in back though includes another publication by Piccirillo titled "Case Studies in VTOL Development: Volume One, The German VAK 191B Transonic VTOL Strike Fighter", ANSER, 1995. Since this additional publication was printed two years before the first title noted, I would assume most of it was included in this publication but can not be sure.

To put some of the above entries into perspective, the studies began in 1964 and the Italians dropped out in 1968 for financial reasons. By 1973 all three aircraft were testing systems for the proposed MRCA, which as the Tornado would eliminate the need for the VAK 191. But in 1973 through most of 1974 an additional 60 flights were undertaken with the US Navy.

(From Aviation and Marine, 1975) Prior to the termination of the program a Mk 2 was proposed with a 30% more powerful cruise engines, and 5% more thrust in the lift engines, a larger wing of 7.5m of 19 sq.m.

 

[toura]

Hi all
A little different one !