USAF/USN 6th Gen Fighters - F/A-XX, F-X, NGAD, PCA, ASFS News & Analysis

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dark sidius said:
bring_it_on said:
Grey Havoc said:
I fear they are going down a dead end there.
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IMHO they are headed towards at least 60 additional Super Hornets. Just last year they told Congress that they want to stop buying the Super Hornet because they are ready to move ahead with NGAD..have an office set up etc etc (which was the right thing to ask for IMO). Now they are publicly saying that they don't even know what the SH replacement actually looks like. It could be manned, or it could be unmanned. I suppose they may have ruled out optionally manned or perhaps just forgot to mention it as an option still on the table. Congress is likely to turn down their request, keep adding SH's until they figure out what they actually want.
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At a moment its time to stop buying ineffective plane just for making number, SH is at the end of is life and un-able to make superiority for conflict in a neuar futur.
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If superhornet were about air superiority then wouldn't they have opted for the more powerful engine? I always was under the impression that the superhornet was a jack of all trades part fighter part A7 that could generate more sorties than the f14. Is the navy even concerned about air superiority against near peer adversaries? Ngad is a long way away from introduction even assuming congress buys what they develop so new superhornets are needed to drive down the age of the fleet. I think its prudent to keep the SH going until they can develop a viable new alternative.
 
rooster said:
dark sidius said:
bring_it_on said:
Grey Havoc said:
I fear they are going down a dead end there.
Click to expand...

IMHO they are headed towards at least 60 additional Super Hornets. Just last year they told Congress that they want to stop buying the Super Hornet because they are ready to move ahead with NGAD..have an office set up etc etc (which was the right thing to ask for IMO). Now they are publicly saying that they don't even know what the SH replacement actually looks like. It could be manned, or it could be unmanned. I suppose they may have ruled out optionally manned or perhaps just forgot to mention it as an option still on the table. Congress is likely to turn down their request, keep adding SH's until they figure out what they actually want.
Click to expand...
At a moment its time to stop buying ineffective plane just for making number, SH is at the end of is life and un-able to make superiority for conflict in a neuar futur.
Click to expand...
If superhornet were about air superiority then wouldn't they have opted for the more powerful engine? I always was under the impression that the superhornet was a jack of all trades part fighter part A7 that could generate more sorties than the f14. Is the navy even concerned about air superiority against near peer adversaries? Ngad is a long way away from introduction even assuming congress buys what they develop so new superhornets are needed to drive down the age of the fleet. I think its prudent to keep the SH going until they can develop a viable new alternative.
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Maybe Grumman will continue their partnership with the navy and bring a Tomcat stealthy heir maybe named Bobcat
 
dark sidius said:
bring_it_on said:
Grey Havoc said:
I fear they are going down a dead end there.
Click to expand...

IMHO they are headed towards at least 60 additional Super Hornets. Just last year they told Congress that they want to stop buying the Super Hornet because they are ready to move ahead with NGAD..have an office set up etc etc (which was the right thing to ask for IMO). Now they are publicly saying that they don't even know what the SH replacement actually looks like. It could be manned, or it could be unmanned. I suppose they may have ruled out optionally manned or perhaps just forgot to mention it as an option still on the table. Congress is likely to turn down their request, keep adding SH's until they figure out what they actually want.
Click to expand...
At a moment its time to stop buying ineffective plane just for making number, SH is at the end of is life and un-able to make superiority for conflict in a near futur.
Click to expand...

Yes, I don't think that is in dispute. But I don't think that Congress is going to let the Navy kill off one of its production programs without having a concrete plan in place for NGAD/FA-XX. Asking them to stop the SH buy but then also saying that "we've still not figured out what will replace it" is probably not going to cut it with Congress when it comes time to ask for SH termination once again this budget cycle (after the current MYP is delivered).
 
In_A_Dream said:
It's also hard to speculate about the future when so many programs are classified. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes that makes it difficult to see the bigger picture.
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Yea until we get a look at the demonstrator I don’t think we’ll have a great idea of what the Air Force has in mind. I also think the Navy is very much following the air forces lead on this.
 
F-2 said:
In_A_Dream said:
It's also hard to speculate about the future when so many programs are classified. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes that makes it difficult to see the bigger picture.
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Yea until we get a look at the demonstrator I don’t think we’ll have a great idea of what the Air Force has in mind. I also think the Navy is very much following the air forces lead on this.
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And this is in the context of the entirety of next generation combat architecture going into the upcoming warfighting era. Everything is getting re-defined, traditional roles, taskings, etc. The injection of AI, high speed data transfers, & unmanned aircraft into the battlefield completely changes everything. Look at the disruption that's happening across the DOD right now. Big plans are coming, the United States knows that there is no stopping China's emergence right now.
 
Does anyone think this is close to the configuration? I'm reminded of the Syd Mead artwork that was floating around before the YF-22/YF-23 configuration was revealed.
 

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doggedman said:
Does anyone think this is close to the configuration? I'm reminded of the Syd Mead artwork that was floating around before the YF-22/YF-23 configuration was revealed.
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E X A C T L Y ! ! !
 
Moose said:
bring_it_on said:
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Not to put too much stock in anything, but it strikes me that those vertical-ish tails look like a tacked-on afterthought to that concept.
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I was actually wondering are they variable, it looks like they fold down. I know a totally tailless aircraft is great for stealth but presents some difficulties for mobility.
 
Wyvern said:
Not sure if this is related:
ukdefencejournal.org.uk

US reveals image of fighter that will replace the F-22

The U.S. Air Force has published a report featuring concept art for the 'Next Generation Air Dominance' fighter.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk ukdefencejournal.org.uk
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It's just an image of an advanced fighter. I still haven't figured out what the landing gear looking thing is at the back. If that's meant to be the MLG, they screwed up royally. Not to mention all of the antenna sticking up all over the top, which aren't very stealthy. It makes me think of them going to an artist and asking him/her to make an image or 3D model of an advanced fighter and the artist puts together all kinds of cool things they've seen in manufacturer concepts without really knowing how to put them all together.
 
The landing gears are meant to designate variable configurations (there is also an Unmanned variant depicted below).
The verticals look to be collapsible, you are right @F-2 .
 
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F-2 said:
Moose said:
bring_it_on said:
Click to expand...
Not to put too much stock in anything, but it strikes me that those vertical-ish tails look like a tacked-on afterthought to that concept.
Click to expand...
I was actually wondering are they variable, it looks like they fold down. I know a totally tailless aircraft is great for stealth but presents some difficulties for mobility.
Click to expand...
If you look in the PDF file that the picture came from, and enlarge the page a bit you can see that those fins are definatively fold-down: There's actual recesses in the wings for them in the rendering.
 
MihoshiK said:
F-2 said:
Moose said:
bring_it_on said:
Click to expand...
Not to put too much stock in anything, but it strikes me that those vertical-ish tails look like a tacked-on afterthought to that concept.
Click to expand...
I was actually wondering are they variable, it looks like they fold down. I know a totally tailless aircraft is great for stealth but presents some difficulties for mobility.
Click to expand...
If you look in the PDF file that the picture came from, and enlarge the page a bit you can see that those fins are definatively fold-down: There's actual recesses in the wings for them in the rendering.
Click to expand...
interesting, but could be titbits, could be misinformation, could be artistic license.

some clearer statements, sounds like a pure fighter. upgrade options sound like a video game, how many kills needed to get the top engine?

Fold up 'rudder?' Really with thrust vectoring and FBW we cant replicate this without a rudder?

Almost sounds like a permanent opportunity to spend money, new airframes every 5-10 years.
 
Total flying wing for subsonic speed and vertical tail for supersonic phase.
 
Don't put too much faith in photos, there is a psychological war going on right now.
 
25 years from IOC to the start of phase-out is nothing to sneeze at, particularly when production was cut early and no major sub-types were developed.
 
LRIP started in 2002 IIRC so the early 2030's would make it nearly 3 decades. That's probably just to begin the process IF EVERYTHING goes as planned with NGAD. The eventual phasing out could easily go into the mid to late 2030's.
 
B/w the F-35 and NGAD they a have comfortable margin (the NGAD is said to be flying already).
 
No, just human failings and politics, they rarely fall far from the apple tree.

Sorry, badly written. human failings, politics, a recipe for failure.
 
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Well one question answered...I always thought perhaps that the NGAD demonstrator was a drone component of the program for it to exist so quickly. But:

“We still have to make it real, and there’s a lot to do in the program, but when you see what is going on, and you hear it from the Airmen who are flying it, you get a chance to really understand … where we’re going.”

That makes it sound like it isn't a UAV or a technology surrogate flying avionics equipment but some kind of actual manned fighter prototype. Perhaps I'm reading too much into that. So weird post cold war for there to be a project this big and know nothing about it; I feel like even in the bad old days there was never this level of secrecy for fighter programs. The Streak Eagle broke all sorts of speed and acceleration records and the USAF was hardly shy about it.
 
I wonder when it will actually be unveiled.
 
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The article says “politicians were somewhat impressed” knowing how easily impressed the average politician is the exterior must not be too “exoticly” shaped just guessing.
 
Ingraman said:
Second NGAD type? Congressmen already saw demo system? WOW!!

www.airforcemag.com

New Force Design: NGAD Needed Soon, F-22 Sunset Begins in 2030 | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The F-22 will begin to phase out in about 2030, and the Next-Generation Air Dominance fighter will be needed soon to defeat new threats.
www.airforcemag.com www.airforcemag.com
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That is wild, a successor to the successor is already in the work?! They aren't kidding around about going fast. If true this is encouraging, it feels more like a SpaceX pace of development than what we're (painfully) used to.
 
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TomcatViP said:
B/w the F-35 and NGAD they a have comfortable margin (the NGAD is said to be flying already).
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Don't know how it could be. They haven't even run the engines yet (or likely even started building them).
 
sferrin said:
TomcatViP said:
B/w the F-35 and NGAD they a have comfortable margin (the NGAD is said to be flying already).
Click to expand...
Don't know how it could be. They haven't even run the engines yet (or likely even started building them).
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That we know of.

It will not surprise me if we are seeing the return of the COLD WAR testing.

AKA we are not finding out shit happening until months later if that.

NDAS and Classified stamps everywhere.

Will be heartening if true cause that means the we can still keep shit secret in this age of everyone having a camera or twelve with access to everydamnwhere on this planet.
 
When they say 'fly' they probably mean in a simulator.
 
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