US Navy Outline Specification OS-112

[Stargazer]

This specification called for a penetration/escort fighter.

Here is a list of designs which I believe were submitted to OS-112, a specification that produced no actual aircraft. Perhaps Paul can confirm the following from Jared's book, which I do not have (I would appreciate details as to the title and publisher of that gem!).

• Boeing 482
• Curtiss-Wright VF-31
• Curtiss-Wright VF-37 (P-538)
• Curtiss-Wright VF-38 (P-551)
• Douglas 1163
• Lockheed L-180

There may have been others but I'm not aware of them. Any ideas or info?

 

[Stargazer]

A very interesting analysis of OS-112 is proposed by Tommy H. Thomason on his U.S. Navy Aircraft History blog. He also shares an amazing picture of the P-551 (or VF-38) proposal from Curtiss-Wright, which owes a lot to the earlier P-87 Blackhawk design...

In 1946, both the Air Force and the Navy realized that they needed to develop long-range escort fighters to protect the strategic bombers in the next war, if it came to that. Neither service was actually successful in that regard, but the Air Force's efforts to develop parasite fighters (the McDonnell F-85) and long-range fighters (the McDonnell F-88 and Lockheed F-90) are well known and documented. Not so the Navy's. I had only heard about studies but seen nothing specific until diligent researcher Ryan Crierie found two Curtiss-Wright proposals in George Spangenberg's papers at the National Archives.

I'm still a little fuzzy on the details, but it appears that the Navy issued OS-112 to define the requirements for a carrier-based fighter to accompany its planned force of long-range, carrier-based, atomic bombers. The most significant number was the combat radius: 1,200 nautical miles, roughly twice that of existing carrier-based fighters. As envisioned by Curtiss-Wright, it was to be a big airplane with a four-man crew. The armament consisted of a forward and aft facing radar-directed turrets. The large pods on the wing tips were not fuel tanks, but housed search radars, one covering the upper hemisphere and the other the lower. (An alternate approach had one covering the right hemisphere and the other the left.)

The crew consisted of a pilot and copilot and two gunners, one facing aft and one forward across from each other in a compartment aft of the cockpit. Presumably the copilot was there as a relief pilot, since the mission time was over six hours for the jet version and almost eight hours for the turboprop. (As it happened, all the Navy's strategic bombers were single-piloted, with the crew consisting of a bombardier and a third man whose duties varied over time and with the aircraft type.)

The artist's concept above is the Curtiss Wright 551, which was powered by four Westinghouse J46 engines with afterburners and had a takeoff gross weight of 68,500 pounds. The turboprop version, the 538, was powered by two Allison T40s and only weighed 51,000 pounds. By way of comparison, the biggest Navy carrier-based jet fighter at the time, the Douglas two-seat F3D Skynight, weighed about half that and had a combat range, not radius, of 1,200 nautical miles. (It was actually used to escort Air Force B-29s on night missions during the Korean War.)

The operational concept appears to have been that the crew of the escort "fighter" would detect the approaching enemy interceptors with its search radars, get into position to block them from approaching the bombers, and shoot them down when they came within range of either the forward or aft turrets.

After a review of the proposals and a rethink, the Navy decided to send its bombers out on their own, protected only by speed in the case of the AJ Savage, the placeholder for the A2J and A3D that were both designed with tail turrets.

http://thanlont.blogspot.com/

 

[Skybolt]

These are the Lockheed submissions. Original specs for the type were: 4-man crew, combat radius = 1.788 Nmi, cruise speed = 335 knots, maximum speed @ 48,888 feet = 465 knots, rate of climb @ SL = 5600 fpm.
L-180-2 was on the specs but was too slow and too heavy for small-carrier operations; L-180-3 (I don't have this design) was a compromise, lighter but too short on range; L-180-4 was a simplified design, essentially an F-90 with enlarged surfaces. Lockheed results showed that an aircraft designed exactly to specs would have been impractical. Lockheed went on and proposed a bomber able to attack without escort on most missions. Designated L-180-5 it could be included in the OS-111 projects. Main data were at a GTOW of 52.625 pounds: bombing raius 1200 nmi, bombing atitude max 45.000 feet, cruise speed 450 knots, max speed 500 knots, max speed with a/b 600 knots, stall speed 94 knots, rate of climb at SL 2860 fpm, with a/b 5800 fpm. The L-180-5 used drop-tanks, had no landing gear but took-off from a dolly and landed on belly, the bomb-bay was targeted to a single type of bomb (nuclear).

 

[Bill S]

According to Mr. Buttler the Vought V-356 was a Vought contender for the OS-112 competition. In his book there is the drawing and model that look like CVS-17416 below. I have found several other design studies that were labeled V-356 including a couple that were VA aircraft not VF aircraft. With consideration to the fact that like the V-358 which also produced VA and VF designs this post might not belong in the topic of OS-112. I leave that to the smarter people running/moderating the forum to decide.


For your interest and viewing pleasure I offer up the following:



CVS-17416 V-356 Fighter Design Study Rolls Royce AJ-65's, no sweepback, aspect raion 5.0 and tip tanks


CVS-17423 V-356 Design Study VF-VA Airplane Two 7500# Jet Engines


CVS-17419 V-356 Design Study VF Airplane Single Allison XT-40 Tractor


CVS-17402 V-356 Design Study VA Airplane 2 DeLaval Gas Turbines, External Stores


All courtesy of my scanning and the Vought Aircraft Heritage Foundation Archives


bill

 

[hesham]

Fantastic and amazing search ,Bill S, you made my day.

 

[Stargazer]

Fantastic finds once again, Bill. You rock!

Second design looks a bit like the Curtiss Blackhawk...

 

[Bill S]

Here is another V-356 general arrangement, VAHF microfilm

 

[hesham]

Great find my dear Bill.

 

[Pioneer]

Great find my dear Bill.

I second that sentiment!!

Regards
Pioneer

 

[thehay95]

USN competition of Carrier-Based Long-Range Escort Fighter

Hi All!
That's what I found:
American Secret Projects-Fighters & Interceptors 1945-1978
page 36: A New Carrier-Based Long-Range Escort Fighter
Another competition was held for a new carrier-based long-range escort fighter. Sadly it has proved difficult to uncover much information about this program. It appears that work began in the second half of 1946 and Convair and Vought, for certain, prepared designs. However, no hardware was produced and the specification was revised in 1947-1948. As such it was issued as OS-112, and rather more response from industry was then forthcoming. Taking the 1946 work first, no information has been traced for Convair's multi-engine "VF" escort fighter project, but some drawings are available for Vought's proposals under its Model V-356 project.
and page 37 about V-356 and OS-112 ...
and Early Lockheed XF-90 Concepts — the L-153, L-167 and L-169 Studies (source: RetroMechanix.com):
L-169-1 Long Range Naval Fighter
Maybe L-169 is a competitor of the V-356 and the Convair Model ?
I think so, because the radius of action of the two projects are the same (1200).
Other possible competitors I still do not know.
Wondering your opinion on this argument...

 

[hesham]

Re: USN competition of Carrier-Based Long-Range Escort Fighter

Welcome aboard Thehay95,

and all thing about this competition is here;

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9866.msg211851.html#msg211851

 

[masher47]

This is to either clarify some points or make them more confusing. My data comes from 40 years ago sent to me by Jerry Scharfenberger, but I’m showing a section of the same document from Jared’s site as the drawings are much cleaner. Hopefully Bill S will join in.

This material crosses several threads, Bill S’s US Navy Outline Specification OS-112, allysonca’s

Vought V-356 Navy Attack Proposal, and nugo’s USN competition of Carrier-Based Long-Rang Escort Fighter.

To me all of the views shown are as Bill S mentions are V-356 variation. Enclosed are four of the turbo-prop versions, one PT-2 powered model CVS 17421, and three XT-40 powered designs, one a twin engine CVS 17407 and two single engine, the tractor tail dragger Bill S has posted the CVS 17419, and a tricycle gear pusher CVS 17420.

Bill S has produced some interesting data, I couldn’t find the T40 models when I had the opportunity to go through the files in Arlington, nore could anyone else when I asked for specific models. I under stand all the microfilm has been transferred to the SDASM. If so did they also get the color portrate of the 30 F6U Pirates on the runway? Bill S do you still have access? Would love more views of the pusher CVS 17420, especially a cut-away. Where did the CVS 17402 DeLaval views come from? Are there more XT-42 designs? Where did Allysonca drawing come from and what is the sub number, the CVS 17---? Feel free to contact me is you don’t want to post.

 

[masher47]

Sorry Stargazer2006, didn't mean to slight you, this is his thread, not BillS.

 

[Bill S]

This is to either clarify some points or make them more confusing. My data comes from 40 years ago sent to me by Jerry Scharfenberger, but I’m showing a section of the same document from Jared’s site as the drawings are much cleaner. Hopefully Bill S will join in.

This material crosses several threads, Bill S’s US Navy Outline Specification OS-112, allysonca’s

Vought V-356 Navy Attack Proposal, and nugo’s USN competition of Carrier-Based Long-Rang Escort Fighter.

To me all of the views shown are as Bill S mentions are V-356 variation. Enclosed are four of the turbo-prop versions, one PT-2 powered model CVS 17421, and three XT-40 powered designs, one a twin engine CVS 17407 and two single engine, the tractor tail dragger Bill S has posted the CVS 17419, and a tricycle gear pusher CVS 17420.

Bill S has produced some interesting data, I couldn’t find the T40 models when I had the opportunity to go through the files in Arlington, nore could anyone else when I asked for specific models. I under stand all the microfilm has been transferred to the SDASM. If so did they also get the color portrate of the 30 F6U Pirates on the runway? Bill S do you still have access? Would love more views of the pusher CVS 17420, especially a cut-away. Where did the CVS 17402 DeLaval views come from? Are there more XT-42 designs? Where did Allysonca drawing come from and what is the sub number, the CVS 17---? Feel free to contact me is you don’t want to post.

Masher47 the microfilm actually went to UT Dallas. Since the films have been transferred I no longer have special access. I do not know where the F6U photo went it disappeared with the closure of the Building 76 activities. All the images I shared in post #4 of this topic were from finds on microfilm.

 

[masher47]

Thanks Bill for taking the time to fill me in. Did you guys disband and if so did the O2U Corsair replica get finished? I was last there when you were painting the V-173 and and the Pirate had been primed. I see its at Pensacola now. Thank you and your fello Vought employees for working all those years filling in voids of our history that others so willing disregard.

 

[Bill S]

Thanks Bill for taking the time to fill me in. Did you guys disband and if so did the O2U Corsair replica get finished? I was last there when you were painting the V-173 and and the Pirate had been primed. I see its at Pensacola now. Thank you and your fello Vought employees for working all those years filling in voids of our history that others so willing disregard.

@masher47 No Sir, the group is still working the O3U-3 replica. The work continues in an old TXDOT facility that belongs to Grand Prairie Schools. The V-173 is on display at Dallas Love Field Frontiers of Flight Museum, the F6U ended up in Pensacola and the F7U-3 was returned to the USS Midway with a considerable amount of work completed but not all.

 

[acegeek9992]

These are the Lockheed submissions. Original specs for the type were: 4-man crew, combat radius = 1.788 Nmi, cruise speed = 335 knots, maximum speed @ 48,888 feet = 465 knots, rate of climb @ SL = 5600 fpm.
L-180-2 was on the specs but was too slow and too heavy for small-carrier operations; L-180-3 (I don't have this design) was a compromise, lighter but too short on range; L-180-4 was a simplified design, essentially an F-90 with enlarged surfaces. Lockheed results showed that an aircraft designed exactly to specs would have been impractical. Lockheed went on and proposed a bomber able to attack without escort on most missions. Designated L-180-5 it could be included in the OS-111 projects. Main data were at a GTOW of 52.625 pounds: bombing raius 1200 nmi, bombing atitude max 45.000 feet, cruise speed 450 knots, max speed 500 knots, max speed with a/b 600 knots, stall speed 94 knots, rate of climb at SL 2860 fpm, with a/b 5800 fpm. The L-180-5 used drop-tanks, had no landing gear but took-off from a dolly and landed on belly, the bomb-bay was targeted to a single type of bomb (nuclear).

If you said you didn't have the L-180-3 design, then why is there a picture of it on your post? On the other hand, I'd love to see a drawing for the L-180-4

 

[hesham]

If you said you didn't have the L-180-3 design, then why is there a picture of it on your post? On the other hand, I'd love to see a drawing for the L-180-4

May it will be mention in the book,ASP5 ?.

 

[acegeek9992]

If you said you didn't have the L-180-3 design, then why is there a picture of it on your post? On the other hand, I'd love to see a drawing for the L-180-4

May it will be mention in the book,ASP5 ?.

If that book ever exists, I wonder when it could be released for all of us to read

 

[hesham]

If that book ever exists, I wonder when it could be released for all of us to read

That's under construction as I know.

 

[acegeek9992]

These are the Lockheed submissions. Original specs for the type were: 4-man crew, combat radius = 1.788 Nmi, cruise speed = 335 knots, maximum speed @ 48,888 feet = 465 knots, rate of climb @ SL = 5600 fpm.
L-180-2 was on the specs but was too slow and too heavy for small-carrier operations; L-180-3 (I don't have this design) was a compromise, lighter but too short on range; L-180-4 was a simplified design, essentially an F-90 with enlarged surfaces. Lockheed results showed that an aircraft designed exactly to specs would have been impractical. Lockheed went on and proposed a bomber able to attack without escort on most missions. Designated L-180-5 it could be included in the OS-111 projects. Main data were at a GTOW of 52.625 pounds: bombing raius 1200 nmi, bombing atitude max 45.000 feet, cruise speed 450 knots, max speed 500 knots, max speed with a/b 600 knots, stall speed 94 knots, rate of climb at SL 2860 fpm, with a/b 5800 fpm. The L-180-5 used drop-tanks, had no landing gear but took-off from a dolly and landed on belly, the bomb-bay was targeted to a single type of bomb (nuclear).

How much wing sweep does the L-180-5 have? Wonder if it could go supersonic with enough engine power

 

[Bill S]

Attached are General Arrangements for the Curtiss OS-112 entries of the P-538 (VF-37) and the P-551 (VF38)
Source NARA II

 

[acegeek9992]

Anyone have pics on the Boeing 482 and Douglas 1163 yet?

 

[hesham]

Anyone have pics on the Boeing 482 and Douglas 1163 yet?

They are displayed in the book, Early US Jet Fighters,by my dear Mr. Tony Buttler