1939 US Carrier Torpedo/Bomber Aircraft Competition (Devastator Replacement)

[swallow]

Hi everyone

In 1939 a competition was made for a replacement of the Douglas TBD Devastator.
There where six manufactures Grumman / Douglas / Vought / Hall / Brewster & Vultee.
I have only the Grumman Avenger & Vought Sea Wolf and the Douglas , missing the rest !
There where thirteen designs in total.
Anyone knowing more


Source : Grumman Aircraft since 1929 René J Francillon.

 

[Antonio]

Re: Devastator replacement

Minidocavia Nº10
Les Bombardiers et Torpilleurs Navals Américains. Alain Pelletier.
Editions Larivière

1939 VTB Competition (3-crew carrier torpedo-bombers) for Douglas TBD Devastator replacement:

Douglas VTB. Wright R-2600 engine. Tricycle landing gear.

Vultee TBV Georgia: naval version of A-31 Vengeance

Grumman TBF Avenger

Vought TBU Sea Wolf

 

[swallow]

Re: Devastator replacement

Many thanks Pometablava

 

[nugo]

Re: Devastator replacement

Hi pometablava.


If it is possible tell what projects are shown in the book? ( Minidocavia Nº10
Les Bombardiers et Torpilleurs Navals Américains. Alain Pelletier.
Editions Larivière)

If it is possible tell what firms participated in competition: XSB2C-1 & XSB2A-1

1) Curtiss Model 84
2) Brewster Model ?
...............?

 

[Antonio]

Re: Devastator replacement

Nugo,

I'm working on a USN torpedo and bomber carrier aircraft evolution tree from 1935 to 1945. I'll post it here as soon as finished...

regards,

Antonio

 

[Antonio]

While looking for info to post a mini-report I have found some interesting bibliography:

Minidocavia Nº10: Les Bombardiers et Torpilleurs Navals Américains. Alain Pelletier. Editions Larivière.

Wings October 1988 Volume 18 Nº5: "Douglas AD Skyrider" by Steve Pace

Wings June 1992 Volume 22 No 3: "Grumman's Avenger Torpedo Bomber" by Joe Mizrahi.

Le Fana de L'Aviation Numbers: 442, 443 and 444. "Aux origines du Skyrider. Les dessous de la légende" by René J. Francillon.

SB2C Helldiver in action. Squadron/Signal 54 by Robert Stern (On page 49 there is a couple of pics of the Curtiss XSB3C mock-up)

 

[robunos]

according to Naval Fighters 33, the vought XTBU-1 Sea Wolf placed second in the competition to the XTBF-1 Avenger, however one XTBU-1 was ordered, and following early testing, showed a 50mph speed advantage over the Grumman plane. as a result the Navy ordered 1000 TBU-1s.
vought, however, was fully occupied with the F4U corsair, so sub-contracted the TBU to vultee, who converted a truck factory in Allentown, Pennsylvania, to produce it.
delays in converting the factory, and training the workforce meant the first production TBY-2 did not fly until august 20th, 1944.
180 more were completed by the time the contract was cancelled due to the war's end. due to the production delays, the Pratt and Whitney R-2600 'B' powered TBY-1 was replaced by the TBY-2, powered by the uprated R-2600 'C' engine.

cheers,
Robin.

 

[frank]

P & W R-2800 or Wright R-2600?

according to Naval Fighters 33, the vought XTBU-1 Sea Wolf placed second in the competition to the XTBF-1 Avenger, however one XTBU-1 was ordered, and following early testing, showed a 50mph speed advantage over the Grumman plane. as a result the Navy ordered 1000 TBU-1s.
vought, however, was fully occupied with the F4U corsair, so sub-contracted the TBU to vultee, who converted a truck factory in Allentown, Pennsylvania, to produce it.
delays in converting the factory, and training the workforce meant the first production TBY-2 did not fly until august 20th, 1944.
180 more were completed by the time the contract was cancelled due to the war's end. due to the production delays, the Pratt and Whitney R-2600 'B' powered TBY-1 was replaced by the TBY-2, powered by the uprated R-2600 'C' engine.

cheers,
Robin.

 

[robunos]

apologies, my typo, P&W R-2800, R-2800-22 in TBY-2, sub-type not specified in XTBU-1.

cheers,
Robin.

 

[Antonio]

Still unfinished but I'm at work

 

[Bill S]

For SD-114-6


Vought mentions the V-174A/B/C/D/D-1 in their responses to SD-114-6




bill

 

[hesham]

From Air International 8/1995,


here is the Douglas proposal for VTB competition of 1939,can anyone make a
complete 3-view to it,the drawing is missing a part of wing.

 

[joncarrfarrelly]

From Francillon McDonnell Douglas Aircraft since 1920: Vol.1

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Jon.

 

[Pioneer]

Re: Devastator replacement

Nugo,

I'm working on a USN torpedo and bomber carrier aircraft evolution tree from 1935 to 1945. I'll post it here as soon as finished...

regards,

Antonio

Looking forward to seeing your work

Regards
Pioneer

 

[hesham]

My dear Tailspin,


can you discover the proposals,which was submit in those two contests,VTB & VTBS ?.

 

[fightingirish]

XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part One
Vought's entry in the competition to replace the Douglas TBD torpedo bomber became a footnote in history due to the success of it's stablemate the F4U and the lack of production space at the factory. The aircraft was sleeker and provided better performance than it's Grumman competitor the XTBF-1.
Production rights were transferred to Consolidated as the TBY-2 and eventually less than 200 were manufactured before the end of the war caused contract cancellation.
Here are the mockup photos of the XTBU-1 taken on May 4, 1940 showing the design from several different angles. Photos are from NARA II Collection 72AC Box101C.

Link:Voughtworks.blogspot.com - XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part One

XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part Two
Continuing with the series on the XTBU-1 mockup here are photos of the aircraft in the flight level position, wing folded, from the front and a side view with the cabin enclosure open. Of additional interest is the XF4U mockup with the original tail hook concept sharing the same space in the hangar. NARA II Photos RG 72AC Box101.

Link:Voughtworks.blogspot.com - XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part Two

XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part Three
Continuing on with the series on the XTBU-1 mockup. Here is a series of five photographs that show the turret gun installation. Each of the photos shows the turret in a different position showing it's flexibility and fields of fire for defense of the TBU from upper, rear and side attack, The tunnel gun will be in a further posting. All photos Vought via NARA II RG72.

Link: Voughtworks.blogspot.com - XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part Three

XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part Four
Here are the images of the tunnel gun installation for lower rear defense of the XTBU-1. Also included in this series is a view from the inside looking at the gun installation. Chance Vought photos from NARA II RG72 collection.

Link: Voughtworks.blogspot.com - XTBU-1 Mockup 76 Years Later Part Four

 

[Steve Pace]

Good stuff - thanks! -SP

 

[Bill S]

Here are the attachments from my blog posts for the files here.

V/r

Bill

 

[Bill S]

Here are the Gun Turret mockup photos for my next blog posting.
These shots show the field of fire afforded this turrent installation.
NARA II photos.

 

[Bill S]

Here are the images showing the Tunnel Gun fields of fire and a look from the inside.
NARA II RG72 copies of Chance Vought photos

 

[hesham]

For this Competition;

VSB-VTB; Chance Vought V-330 and Vultee V-57.

 

[TomcatViP]

Interesting modern color footage (with audio) of the recent TBM Avenger ditching, meters only from the shore:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1383474998136819722

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1383474998136819722

WATCH: World War II-Era TBM Avenger Ditches Off Cocoa Beach During Airshow 'Warbird Parade' - Space Coast Daily

Airshow fans got more than they expected on Saturday afternoon about 1:15 p.m. when a World War II era TBM Avenger was forced to ditch off Cocoa Beach due to mechanical issues. [...]

spacecoastdaily.com

 

[Justo Miranda]

Chance-Vought TBY-2 Sea Wolf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

what was the Scout Bomber competition of 1941,which Naval Aircraft Factory involved
in it ?.

 

[VictorXL188]

Hi,

Boeing Model-289 was submitted to SD-119-3,as a bomber and torpedo
aircraft competition VB-VT,never heard about it before ?.

Re https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/boeing-model-designations.17491/page-2, you will see that the VB-VT competition was met by the Boeing Model 315 as well as the Model 289

 

[BlackBat242]

Posts #1 - #23, and #32 are about the 1939 competition, which is what the OP specifies as the thread subject.
#3 is about a different 1941 competition, and #38 & 40 refer to a biplane submission to a much earlier competition.

Most of the rest of the posts are about the aircraft designed and built for the completely separate and different 1943+ competition... shouldn't they be in separate threads!

 

[hesham]

Posts #1 - #23, and #32 are about the 1939 competition, which is what the OP specifies as the thread subject.
#3 is about a different 1941 competition, and #38 & 40 refer to a biplane submission to a much earlier competition.

Most of the rest of the posts are about the aircraft designed and built for the completely separate and different 1943+ competition... shouldn't they be in separate threads!

I disagree with you BlackBat,it's a collections of naval competitions in this period,they are connected.

 

[BlackBat242]

I disagree with you BlackBat,it's a collections of naval competitions in this period,they are connected.

If they are to remain, some mention that they are NOT about the originally discussed competition should be inserted for clarity.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

what was the Scout Bomber competition of 1941,which Naval Aircraft Factory involved
in it ?.

That's for VSB competition,and main tenders were;

Brewster 37,Vought V-319,Curtiss XSB3C-1,Douglas XSB2D-1,Vultee V-57 and Martin ?.

 

[airman]

From Francillon McDonnell Douglas Aircraft since 1920: Vol.1

Douglas VTB seems be an " upgraded Douglas Devastator" .

 

[Apophenia]

That's for VSB competition,and main tenders were;

Brewster 37,Vought V-319,Curtiss XSB3C-1,Douglas XSB2D-1,Vultee V-57 and Martin ?.

Are you sure about that Vultee V-57? The Model 57 was the projected TBV-1 Georgia - a Vengeance shipboard torpedo bomber derivative to a 1939 VTB contest.

 

[hesham]

Are you sure about that Vultee V-57? The Model 57 was the projected TBV-1 Georgia - a Vengeance shipboard torpedo bomber derivative to a 1939 VTB contest.

Sorry for that,I meant a design from early 80s series.

 

[tallguy]

Hi everyone

In 1939 a competition was made for a replacement of the Douglas TBD Devastator.
There where six manufactures Grumman / Douglas / Vought / Hall / Brewster & Vultee.
I have only the Grumman Avenger & Vought Sea Wolf and the Douglas , missing the rest !
There where thirteen designs in total.
Anyone knowing more


Source : Grumman Aircraft since 1929 René J Francillon.

Still very interested in any info on Halls submission

 

[Justo Miranda]

Vought/Convair/Consolidated TBU/TBYTBM Sea Wolf

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-2

 

[Justo Miranda]

Post-3