Unknown Nakajima WW II Designs

[Jemiba]

I split those two unknown designs, posted by blackkite and found by him here http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ak277301/28343919.html,
from the "Fugaku : Z-plane, G10 or G12" thread and took the liberty to start this new one .
The title will be changed, when we know more about their origins, but I thought this find worth
an own thread.

 

[blackkite]

Re: Unknown Japanes WW II Designs

I can add some information of these project. Please wait. Of course these were Nakajima's private project. Give me time.
It will be a tiny my Christmas present for you. ;D

 

[T-50]

wow Blackkite san these are awsome pics! I thought there is nothing more to discover!
But Ididnt know that Nakajima was developing a twin boom fighter!
I know these days they discover after 70 years more movies,pics and documents in the archives of the countrys who participate in the second world war,but blue prints of on known projects are very rare!
my compliments for putting this pics on the internet!

 

[theponja]

Ohh Ahh an unknown japanese project I ... need ... more information ....

 

[blackkite]

There were following planes in Nakajima's document called "Planes list for winning game".
(1) Four engines gun ship
(2) Single engine fighter
(3) Twin engines interceptor
[Four engine gun ship]
attacking armament : 7.7mm gun×198(bullets several ten thousant), or 13mm gun×100(bullets 50000)
protecting armament : 20mm cannon×1, 13mm gun×5, crew :7
[Single engine pusher fighter]
Span : 17.12m, Height : 4.15m, Wing area : 40 square meter, Combat Radius : 800km+α, Armament : 57mm cannon×1, 30mm cannon×4
[Twin engine long range interceptor]
Long range interceptor which intercept super heavy bomber far from the target area.
Span : 26.8m, combat radius : 2500km!, Maximum speed : 760km/h/9000m, Armament : 57mm cannon×1, 30mm cannon×7

All three aircrafts had high power engine which need contra rotating propeller. I think those engines were 5000 hp 36 cylinders aircooling radial HA-54 same as Fugaku.

 

[theponja]

[Single engine pusher fighter]
Span : 17.12m, Height : 4.15m, Wing area : 40 square meter, Combat Radius : 800km+α, Armament : 57mm cannon×1, 30mm cannon×4

A pusher fighter!!! Great. We need a 3d view of this one.

Blackkite as always thank a lot for the incredible information you bring us about Japanese projects.

 

[blackkite]

I would also like to see an exact three side view drawing.
However, the owner of these drawings is stubborn and will not show a drawing as a publishing company by any means.
The owner said that this is useless possession.
I cannot understand at all why he takes such an attitude indeed.
Any way, please enjoy larger images. ;D
Pusher fighter engine cooling was a difficult problem. I can't understand how to cool the engine from this drawing. Take cooling air from small slit? Perhaps air intake area was to small compared with Senden's design.

 

[Jemiba]

For the twin-boom fighter, the problem should be solvable. The plan is curved just
in one direction. Will have a closer lok at it for the twin engined/contra-prop design
the side view could only be deduced, with a relatively low accuracy.
So I'll start with the twin boomer.

 

[blackkite]

Wow good challenge!
These plans may be what the engineer created reluctantly with Chikuhei Nakajima's directions.
I think the plan examined not much earnestly.
Ha 54 engine was a difficult engine which held the problem in cooling. Pusher fighter was a side by side two seater?
Pusher fighter tail looks like Manshu Ki-98.

 

[Jemiba]

Still not perfect, but maybe a basis:

 

[gerhard]

Wow, this is incredible. Unknown designs from Nakajima! Cannot wait for more!

 

[Stargazer]

Hi folks. Did my own reinterpretation of the twin-boom project, for now in top view only.

Of course there is no guarantee that the proportions are 100% accurate, but I hope it's a step in the right direction.

Any remarks/suggestions/criticism are most welcome.

[picture removed and replaced by this one: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20978.msg206822.html#msg206822]

 

[hesham]

Hi,


if we know what was the year of it,we can ID for which competition it was submitted.

 

[T-50]

I think this fighter has contra rotating props,anyway it was a very advanced design !

 

[blackkite]

Thanks everyone for your attention. I imagine that these aircrafts were Chikuhei Nakajima's private projects same as Z-plane, no concern to the IJA and the IJN. Of course the target of these fighters were B-29/B-36. These multi seat fighter could become a night fighter when had a radar.

 

[windswords]

From the drawings it looks like the pusher fighter has a very wide cockpit. Maybe it was meant to have a two person crew that sat side by side?

 

[Jemiba]

.. Did my own reinterpretation of the twin-boom project, for now in top view only.

Thanks Stéphane, you beat me to that ! I'm mostly starting with the side view.
I'm still not sure if it was a side by side two seater, as blackkite suggested. Are there
any clues, that it is a two-seater ?

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Another 4 engine gun ship.
This aircraft had sigle propeller. The engine was HA-44, 18 cylinders aircooling radial engine(take off power 2400hp).

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks Stéphane, you beat me to that ! I'm mostly starting with the side view.

It doesn't matter! I think there is ample room for several interpretations, and hopefully we'll be doing a better job all together!

I'm still not sure if it was a side by side two seater, as blackkite suggested. Are there any clues, that it is a two-seater ?

Canopy looks waaay too large for a single-seater. Makes me think of the D.H. Mosquito's canopy a bit.

 

[Stargazer]

I have attempted to do the profile view (which is a lot more difficult to do, given the extreme warp of the image there). I have added the nose probe and stretched the nose on the original top view a little bit.

Of course, any comments bla bla bla... ;D

[picture removed and replaced by this one: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20978.msg206822.html#msg206822]

 

[blackkite]

Thanks. What a fast and excellent work!!!

 

[Jemiba]

Ok, ok, I should have better sat at my screen, than been hunting for Xmas presents ! ;D

Great work indeed and you're right, Stéphane, with the framing it reminds more to the Mossie,
than to the Sabb 21.
A detail, we can only speculate about is the landing gear. But I think, at least for the kinematic
of the main gear, we have a clue, as the retracted wheel is shown nearly directly above the extended
one. So to my opinion, it would have used a kind of knee joint.

 

[Stargazer]

Thanks blackkite! And Jemiba, you're right I think. Told you that working as a team gives faster and better results!

Here a reworked view of the front. No line drawing done yet (I ALSO have to go and buy presents... lol).

 

[Stargazer]

Working on the third and final (and most accurate) part of the three-view arrangement, I realize I made MANY mistakes in the previous plan, so please do not take it too seriously. I'm currently reworking the thing entirely. Nose shape and size were wrong, tail elevation and boom inclination too, and many little things here and there. :-[ So stay tuned... :-\

 

[airman]

The four engine project of Nakajima was a gunship : could be interesting a graphical reconstruction !

 

[T-50]

Hi! Another 4 engine gun ship.
This aircraft had sigle propeller. The engine was HA-44, 18 cylinders aircooling radial engine(take off power 2400hp).

Hi Blackkite san this aircraft looks like a mini version of the G10N fugaku!
I was wondering is this aircraft design connected to the Z program or is it part of a other new program for a heavy bomber?

 

[Stargazer]

Here is my three-view plan of the twin-boom fighter. Took me many hours to finish it and there are still a few things I'm not satisfied with, but I guess it will have to do for now. This cancels all previous versions posted, which contained many mistakes. Please delete them if ever you saved them!

[artwork removed and replaced with more up-to-date version here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20978.msg206862.html#msg206862]

 

[blackkite]

Oh! Perfect Japanese!! ;D
I think that nose one is 57mm cannon, not pointed.

 

[Stargazer]

Oh! Japanese!!

Hope I didn't make too many mistakes... I love to add some "local" touch! ;D

 

[theponja]

Thanks a lot Stéphane great work in a very short time. I'm very grateful you put the 3d view in a great size.

 

[Stargazer]

I think that nose one is 57mm cannon, not pointed.

Thanks for the suggestion blackkite. I have searched a bit and found an example of a nose-mounted 57mm cannon (Ho-401) installation in the nose of the Ki-102, but the arrangement was different, so I tried to do what I can to stay in line with the plan.

I have reworked the front view, too, as there was a wealth of details I had missed out, especially the fins, horizontal tail and top of the booms.

Unfortunately if there are more changes to be done in the future, I'm afraid I'll have to redo the whole plan completely... I made a beginner's mistake, saving a modified GIF instead of using the "Save as..." function before exit, therefore I lost ALL my layers!!!

 

[Jemiba]

... I love to add some "local" touch! ;D

Wise decision and well done ! In many cases there's a "family resemblance", here I thought of the
J5N1 Tenrai as a pattern and the nose shape now matches quite good that of the Tenrai, as shown
Francillons "Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War".
Have experimented further with the dewarping function of ScanTailor, but actually there's no definite
result, as using the photos of the plans still leaves enough clearance for getting many shapes. :-\

 

[blackkite]

Wow Ho-401!!
IJA
http://gunsight.jp/b/1/ja-gun.htm
IJN
http://gunsight.jp/b/1/jn-gun.htm

 

[theponja]

...

 

[theponja]

[quote author=Stargazer2006
Unfortunately if there are more changes to be done in the future, I'm afraid I'll have to redo the whole plan completely... I made a beginner's mistake, saving a modified GIF instead of using the "Save as..." function before exit, therefore I lost ALL my layers!!!

Sad to heard that but thanks againt for all the effort. The 3d view looks great.


a picture of HO-401:

 

[T-50]

Wow Ho-401!!
IJA
http://gunsight.jp/b/1/ja-gun.htm
IJN
http://gunsight.jp/b/1/jn-gun.htm

It gave a quit big punch thats for sure!!

 

[Justo Miranda]

Nakajima unknown project

More info please

 

[lark]

Re: Nakajima unknown project

Justo , I see that the drawing is Skyblazer's interpretation.
Perhaps he knows more..?

 

[Stargazer]

Re: Nakajima unknown project

Justo , I see that the drawing is Skyblazer's interpretation.
Perhaps he knows more..?

Sure! Thanks lark for noticing that it's my work.

I'm pretty sure this plan was already posted in another topic, but since the Japanese aircraft topics are a mess it's pretty difficult to remember where...

I'm attaching the plan in its original format, and the photo which I based it upon.

 

[lark]

Re: Nakajima unknown project

There's also more information about in :

"Unknown Nakajima WW II designs"

File started by Jemiba in this 'Early Aircraft projects'