UK Ministry of Supply Aero-Engine Designations

Apophenia

Apophenia

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I thought I'd make a start on these. Generally, I find them to be designations that pop up at odd times rather than something I have any luck actually searching for.

Flight (08 Sept 1949) noted the standardization of designations for gas turbines. It doesn't mention rocket engines (which certainly did fall under this MoS scheme) or piston engines. I haven't included any piston engines here.

(BTW: Are the designations R.G. (eg: Griffon R.G. 14 S.M.) and R.M. (eg: Merlin R.M. 14 S.M.) actual MoS designations? I've also seen A.Le.M. for the Alvis Leonides Major but no corresponding 'A.Le.' for the Leonides.)

Anyway, I'll launch off with some turbines and rockets ...
______________________________________________________________

Armstrong Siddeley Motors Ltd. - AS.

- AS.A. = Adder
- AS.Ma. = Mamba
- AS.M.D. = Double Mamba
- AS.P. = Python (NB: ASP was also internal designation)
- AS.Sa. = Sapphire (ex-Metrovick)
- AS.Sc. = Screamer
- AS.Sn. = Snarler
- AS.St. = Stentor (later BSSt.)
- AS.V. = Viper

Blackburn Engines Limited - Bn.

- Bn.N. = Nimbus
- Bn.Pe. = Palouste

Bristol Aero Engines - B.
-- 1958, become Bristol Siddeley Engines (qv)

- B.Ol. = BE.10 Olympus
- B.On. = BE.25 Orion
- B.Or. = BE.26 Orpheus
- B.Ph. = BE.(?) Phoebus (Flight had as 'B.Pb.')
- B.Pr. = BE.(?) Proteus (Flight had as 'B.Pt.')
- B.Pr.C. Coupled Proteus (speculative, Flight had as 'B.PtC.')
- B.T. = Thor (later Bristol Siddeley BS.1009 Thor)
- B.Th. = Theseus

de Havilland Engines Company Ltd - D.

- D.G. = H.2 Ghost (Flight had as 'D.Gt.')
- D.Ge. = Gnome
- D.GJ. = PS.43/PS.50 Gyron Junior (eg: D.GJ.10)
- D.Gn. = H.1 Goblin
- D.Gy. = PS.26/PS.48 Gyron
- D.Spe. = Spectre
- D.Spe.D. = Double Spectre
- D.Spr. = Sprite (DSpr.1/'2) Super Sprite (D.Spr.4)

Metrovick-Vickers - MV.

- MV.B. = F.2/4 Beryl
- MV.Sa. = F.9 Sapphire

Napier and Son Limited - N.

- N.El. = E.151 Eland
- N.Ga. = Gazelle
- N.Na. = Naiad)
- N.Na.C. = Double Naiad (or Naiad Coupled)
- N.Or. = E.164 Oryx (sometimes seen as 'N.Ov.'?)
- N.Sc. = Scorpion
- N.Sc.D. = Double Scorpion
- N.Sc.T. = Triple Scorpion

Rolls-Royce Limited - R.

- R.A. = A.J.65/RB.146 Avon
- R.C. = RB.39 Clyde
- RCo. = RB.80 Conway
- R.D. = RB.37 Derwent
- R.Da. = RB.53 Dart
- R.N. = RB.41 Nene
- R.Sp. = RB.163/RB.168 Spey
- R.Sr. = RRB.93 Soar
- R.Ta. = RB.44 Tay
- R.Ty. = RB.109 Tyne

________________________________________________

So, plenty missing there ... who has more?:D
 
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Thanks Nate. And great website!
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/jet-engine-net-database.37863/#post-481712

I noticed on your Military Turbojet/Turbofan Specifications page you had the MoS designation for the DH Ghost as 'D.Gu.'. I've had a hard time pinning down the Ghost - I've seen 'D.G.' (which seems dubious) and 'D.Gt.' So, I'm going to add 'D.Gu.' too.
Military Turbojet/Turbofan Specifications -- https://jet-engine.net/miltfspec.html

RT.172 - Yup, definitely internal (Rolls-Royce/Turbomeca) but R.D. is new to me. Cheers .... added!
 
Apophenia said:
Thanks Nate. And great website!
-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/jet-engine-net-database.37863/#post-481712

I noticed on your Military Turbojet/Turbofan Specifications page you had the MoS designation for the DH Ghost as 'D.Gu.'. I've had a hard time pinning down the Ghost - I've seen 'D.G.' (which seems dubious) and 'D.Gt.' So, I'm going to add 'D.Gu.' too.
Military Turbojet/Turbofan Specifications -- https://jet-engine.net/miltfspec.html

RT.172 - Yup, definitely internal (Rolls-Royce/Turbomeca) but R.D. is new to me. Cheers .... added!
Click to expand...

I had a series of IT difficulties and I've lost some of my source references (shame - no backups...), so it will be hard for me to track down the specific source for D.Gu. It could very well be a typo/misread source material.

I see in my more recent offline spreadsheet, I've got this corrected to D.Gn in lieu of D.Gu as the following models, so maybe don't add D.Gu as a potential designator:

Goblin H.1
Goblin DGn.2
Goblin 2
Goblin DGn.3
Goblin 5
Goblin 6
Goblin 27
Goblin 33
Goblin 35
Goblin 35B
 
Bristol Siddeley Pegasus
Bristol Siddeley Odin
Bristol Siddeley Gamma
Bristol Siddeley BS.1012
Bristol Siddeley Zeus
Bristol Siddeley BS100

Rolls Royce RZ2 (why no name?)
 
Thanks Nate.

Zoo Tycoon: Do you have any MoS designations for your list?

Since Thor was B.T., it makes sense that the BS.1003 Odin would have an MoS designation too ... but I just can't find one.

Gamma came from Armstrong Siddeley but I can't find 'AS.' designations for their 'letter' rockets - Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, or Double Gamma ... only the 'named' - Stentor, Screamer, and Snarler.

But if we're doing MoS designation wish-lists, here's mine ... (for now) ;)

Armstrong Siddeley Motors - Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, Double Gamma.

Blackburn - Artouste; Turmo (pre A 129 Nimbus?); Cumulus APU; Palas gas generator

Bristol/BSEL - Janus; Odin; BE.22 Saturn; Spartan; BE.30 Zeus; BE.47; BE.53 Pegasus; BS.605
-- Also need BE/BS numbers for Janus; Odin; Phoebus; Theseus; Thor

DHEC - H.3, H.5, H.7, Gem (later BS.360)

Metrovick-Vickers - F.2 Freda

Napier - NRE.11; NRE.17; and NRE.19 rockets; E.237 turborocket

Rover - Marton APU (Rover 2S/150) and Moreton turbojet derivative; Ryton (2S/75 turboshaft variant).
 
So I did once know Odins ministry designation, but I’ve forgotten it (a long time ago, it was a bit mundane, and we just called it Odin) and I’ve not found it in my notes.

But in going through my notes I did come across the following for Bristol ramjets;-

RP = Generally speculative projects but a few of these made it to “boilerplate” prototypes or flow visualisation models (transparent models of the combustion with water/dye flow) ,
RP1 - Integral wing ramjets for English Electric P10
RP2 - 32’ & 36’ ramjet for Avro stand-off Bomb
RP3 - Combined Turbojet/Ramjet for SR177
RP4 - Axi-symmetric ramjet for Vickers stand off Bomb
RP6 - 40’ Ramjet for HP stand off Bomb
RP10 - Integral wing ramjets for English Electric Mach 3 aircraft
RP11 - Podded ramjets for Vickers Mach 2.5 Swallow
RP12 -Integral Turbo ramjets for Vickers Mach 3 aircraft

RP’s 5, 7,8,& 9 unknown but I suspect one of these studies was for the Avro Nuclear powered stand of missile study Z59…. While I was not aware of this project at the time I remember comments which in hindsight are now quite intriguing.

Then the more significant projects;-
BRJ8 mk3 - Blue Steel mk2 - Cell test
BRJ 820 - Blue Envoy - Flight test
BT2 (also referred to as 100 series) Thor for Bloodhound mk1 - Production
BT3 (also referred to as 200 series) Thor for Bloodhound mk2 - Production
R2 - Variable Geometry Mach 4 Ramjet- Cell tested - intended application unknown.
 
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I find it quite odd that looking through MoS files at Kew you rarely come across the MoS designations and often as not you just get the manufacturer's designation.
Which begs the question why the MoS went to the bother and what they were actually used for? Or is the same situation as the SBAC designations - they only survived in circulation as long as the manufacturer bothered to use them?
 
Indeed. You see mention of airframe developments being actively encouraged by that Ministry with nary of mention of MoS designations for its engine(s). As you say, if the MoS wasn't even bother to use such designations in its own documents, why bother creating them in the first place?

Mind you, if all such designations were widely-known, we wouldn't be nerding out on this thread ... :D
 

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