Trump admin considers giving up NATO command that has been exclusively American since Eisenhower

[Flyaway]

They give this up I cannot see the US ever getting it back.

Trump admin considers giving up NATO command that has been American since Eisenhower

The move is being discussed as part of a possible restructuring of combatant commands that would help the Defense Department cut costs.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[VishnuOsiris]

They give this up I cannot see the US ever getting it back.

For what it's worth, I think that horse has already left the barn. I'm convinced: everything he announced during his Inauguration will come to pass. Greenland, Canada, Panama... all of it. IMO, this is the early beginning of a paradigm shifting cultural revolution along with the policy shifts and everything else. American global hegemony is coming to an end out of spite.

 

[Justo Miranda]

The British tribal chiefs rejoiced when the tax collectors left the island along with the last legion.

The Romans left for two reasons:

-They needed the troops elsewhere in the empire.

-The silver mines did not justify the maintenance expenses.

History repeats itself.

BBC - History - Ancient History in depth: After the Romans

What happens when the greatest empire in the world pulls out and leaves you to your fate?

www.bbc.co.uk

Invasion of Britain

Invasion of Britain. Original artwork for Look and Learn or Treasure (issue yet to be identified).

www.lookandlearn.com

 

[Orionblamblam]

I'm convinced: everything he announced during his Inauguration will come to pass.

That would be *spectacular.* A nuclear power renaissance, revived US manufacturing, mass remigrations... sure, US global hegemony would be gone, but it'd be replaced with US Solar Hegemony, the USSF patrolling the LEO Border. Hourly flights to the US states of Luna, Ceres, Islands 1 through 27 in L4 and L5, daily flights to the US possessions and territories on Mars, Venus, Mercury, Ganymede...

 

[Justo Miranda]

All the measures adopted to date by the new administration are reversible, a paradigm shift will only occur when taxpayers see that they pay less tax every year. Then, and only then, will the smartest officials openly accept the new paradigm, and the snowball effect will be created.

Then the problem of the administration will be to stop it, to avoid the pendulum effect. Historically, these types of profound changes have always generated new excesses, but perhaps this time AI will help us break the cycles.

 

[Arjen]

Remember what happened to the Middle Empire after it had turned its back to the world six centuries ago?

 

[Flyaway]

Thing is nature abhors a vacuum, if the US steps out of the superpower position someone else will likely fill it, and there’s one very likely candidate. There’s a guy they occasionally have on a history podcast I listen to who is an expert on China, and he’s always banging on about it being China’s century, and I thought he was just spinning his wheels. Now I’m not so sure.

 

[yeetmahboi]

if the US steps out of the superpower position someone else will likely fill it,

How so? Just because America is no longer interventionist it lose its superpowah status?

America is still the dominant global police and shipping protector. But after 3 decades of stagnation it no longer bears the power people used to so revered. Giving back some to its allies to fend for themselves and rebuild itself in the meantime, I see that as a smart move. Stretch too thin and you KO yourself.

 

[Arjen]

Giving back some to its allies to fend for themselves

That message has been received, but the process of allies rearming was set in motion when the Russian army marched on Kyiv. NOT because of Trump. The tariffs, and Greenland, Canada and Panama threats (don't know what else to call them) are driving traditional allies away from the USA. Money spent on rearming will no longer automatically flow to the USA. If at all.

 

[Foo Fighter]

I wonder what will happen to Boing and LM etc when orders for aircraft and systems go elsewhere. The PRC is producing civil aircraft for the mass market now. US jobs are being threatened now. What might happen in twenty or so years is hardly in the minds of the masses.

Once trump departs it will take a long time for the US to be trusted and in that vacuum, the PRC will grow.

Reminds me of the Peter Sellers film, "Being There".

Being There movie review & film summary (1979) | Roger Ebert

There's an exhilaration in seeing artists at the very top of their form: It almost doesn't matter what the art form is, if they're pushing their limits and

www.rogerebert.com

 

[FighterJock]

All I can say is that it will be interesting to see who replaces Trump in the White House come 2028 Foo Fighter. What will happen after the 2028 election is another matter entirely.

 

[VishnuOsiris]

All I can say is that it will be interesting to see who replaces Trump in the White House come 2028 Foo Fighter. What will happen after the 2028 election is another matter entirely.

I admire your optimism. I'm not going to lean too deep into conspiracy territory, but I've read this playbook before. I'm not holding my breath for elections in '28. I would prefer to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[VishnuOsiris]

All the measures adopted to date by the new administration are reversible, a paradigm shift will only occur when taxpayers see that they pay less tax every year. Then, and only then, will the smartest officials openly accept the new paradigm, and the snowball effect will be created.

I imagine the administration will work tirelessly to ensure their measures will not be reversible. If we are repeating European political phenomena of a century past, they will do whatever it takes to makes sure the public sentiment will remain with them. IIRC, in the 1930's, Germans actually were paid lower wages (technically) than in the 1920's. This didn't matter, because they loved the leadership. He put them back to work, etc.

Someone downloaded "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" (by William L. Shirer) on Audible and said, "a-HA!" What's old is new, no?

 

[FighterJock]

According to the constitution elections must be held every four years. 2028 will probably be too tight to call I would think that who ever wins next time won't have the luxury of having a big majority like what Trump had in November.

 

[Archibald]

We should summon De Gaulle spirit and give him that NATO command. He would gleefully destroy "le machin" "the gizmo" as he called the organization.

 

[Justo Miranda]

In my opinion, the United States is in debt to a worrying extent, because of all the checks written by soft power over the last forty years. There is no mechanism of financial engineering or accounting creativity capable of reversing this situation. The only possible policy is to eliminate superfluous expenditure, then excessive expenditure, then medium- and long-term expenditure, to reduce the size and deployment of the armed forces, to reduce the financing of policies that are alien to reality. Basically, to cease to exist as a great world power and concentrate only on existing, with the least possible damage to the economy of its voters.

Verbal excesses and veiled expansionist threats only attempt to mask a general tendency towards the orderly withdrawal of imperial influence.

It will be interesting to see how many democracies are left in the world in ten years' time.

Vespasian: The emperor who saved Rome

Emperor Vespasian ruled Rome from AD 69 to 79. He served in the military for many years and eventually rose through the ranks to become one of the commanders of the Roman forces in Britain. In a dramatic turn of events, Vespasian rose to power during one of Rome’s most turbulent periods. The...

www.historyskills.com

 

[Orionblamblam]

In my opinion, the United States is in debt to a worrying extent, because of all the checks written by soft power over the last forty years. There is no mechanism of financial engineering or accounting creativity capable of reversing this situation. The only possible policy is to eliminate superfluous expenditure, then excessive expenditure, then medium- and long-term expenditure, to reduce the size and deployment of the armed forces, to reduce the financing of policies that are alien to reality. Basically, to cease to exist as a great world power and concentrate only on existing, with the least possible damage to the economy of its voters.

The US has a single way to survive long term: expansion. Not on Earth, but off-world. And after wasting fifty years, we're finally on that path.

 

[VishnuOsiris]

In my opinion, the United States is in debt to a worrying extent, because of all the checks written by soft power over the last forty years. There is no mechanism of financial engineering or accounting creativity capable of reversing this situation. The only possible policy is to eliminate superfluous expenditure, then excessive expenditure, then medium- and long-term expenditure, to reduce the size and deployment of the armed forces, to reduce the financing of policies that are alien to reality. Basically, to cease to exist as a great world power and concentrate only on existing, with the least possible damage to the economy of its voters.

Verbal excesses and veiled expansionist threats only attempt to mask a general tendency towards the orderly withdrawal of imperial influence.

It will be interesting to see how many democracies are left in the world in ten years' time.

Agreed. If I were suspicious, I may suspect US policy returns to a Monroe Doctrine approach, with a focus on developing the Arctic for MIL, energy and resource purposes. I think we just passed a watershed moment in US history, and this trend continues through the rest of the century. Climate Change appears to be a major consideration. Interesting times

For the purposes of this forum, from the military perspective, and with respect to emerging trends in civil-military fusion, I think we start to see Pentagon capabilities (ISR/Persistent Stare) more or less leased for a subscription fee to those in the Eastern Hemisphere in need of assistance. I think the days of CIA arriving in the ME with $15M in cash (or whatever) to bribe warlords (or whatever) are finished. Self-interest, exclusively, appears to be on the menu, including foreign use of US military IP/tech/parts. IF I were suspicious.

How in the world one makes this transition, with respect to the financial implications and so forth, I believe will realistically take many, many decades, and won't happen all at once. Of course, this depends on if the party of interest is a "rational" actor or not.

 

[VishnuOsiris]

The US has a single way to survive long term: expansion. Not on Earth, but off-world. And after wasting fifty years, we're finally on that path.

If so, how would you envision the space architecture (logistics, supply chain, etc.) is to be designed (briefly)? Regarding space superiority, before the Dyson Orion's are assembled in orbit, what does this mission look like in interplanetary space? How are the Space-LOC between Earth and Mars defended? (Rhetorical questions) I'm curious what you think, this is one of my favorite subjects.

 

[Justo Miranda]

The US has a single way to survive long term: expansion. Not on Earth, but off-world. And after wasting fifty years, we're finally on that path.

Space, The Last Frontier.

Where no human has been before.

I like it.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Agreed. If I were suspicious, I may suspect US policy returns to a Monroe Doctrine approach, with a focus on developing the Arctic for MIL, energy and resource purposes. I think we just passed a watershed moment in US history, and this trend continues through the rest of the century. Climate Change appears to be a major consideration. Interesting times

For the purposes of this forum, from the military perspective, and with respect to emerging trends in civil-military fusion, I think we start to see Pentagon capabilities (ISR/Persistent Stare) more or less leased for a subscription fee to those in the Eastern Hemisphere in need of assistance. I think the days of CIA arriving in the ME with $15M in cash (or whatever) to bribe warlords (or whatever) are finished. Self-interest, exclusively, appears to be on the menu, including foreign use of US military IP/tech/parts. IF I were suspicious.

How in the world one makes this transition, with respect to the financial implications and so forth, I believe will realistically take many, many decades, and won't happen all at once. Of course, this depends on if the party of interest is a "rational" actor or not.

I don't think that climate change is a factor to consider in the medium term, the solar cycle that causes it is ending. The future of America lies in the resources of the Arctic, they should already be building a large fleet of icebreaker ships to secure the sea routes to northern Canada and agreeing with the Russians on a new common economic prosperity, so necessary for both ex-powers ruined after the Cold War.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Our survival depends solely on luck and our technological capacity.

Europe was on the verge of starving two centuries ago for lack of fertilizers for the land depleted by overpopulation and agriculture, we only survived thanks to guano from Chile because we lacked the technological capacity for something as simple as obtaining nitrogen from the air and because someone worried about discovering what was on the other side of the dark sea.

Now we don't have enough energy to use AI at full capacity because our scientists are not able to reproduce the quantum phase of photosynthesis.

Scott is right, there are unlimited resources out there, beyond anything we can imagine... and I can imagine a lot (Han Solo).

We just need a good engine, a good shield and good reason to go.

 

[Orionblamblam]

If so, how would you envision the space architecture (logistics, supply chain, etc.) is to be designed (briefly)?

For starters, by *not* designing the space architecture from the get-go. Instead, define the goals and let American companies compete to design and build whatever they think will do the job. Evolution, not creationism.

 

[Orionblamblam]

and good reason to go.

The "good reason to go" is that very, very soon Earth is gonna SUUUUUUCK. Having self-sufficient American colonies out in space not only will help assure survival in case Earth goes kerblooey, they'll provide resources and inspiration to help keep Earth from going kerblooey. And of course to curbstomp the barbarians who would trash civilization. Drop rocks on large targets, use space-based Thors and maybe even lasers to take out invasion ships, that sort of thing. Space-based power generation - solar and/or nuclear - to replace environmentally damaging wind, oil and terrestrial solar.

 

[Arjen]

Illegal immigrants AND space colonists. Been there, done that.

 

[GTX]

Thread going off track with the usual garbage from the usual suspects. Locked down.