Top secret DERA rocket designed by the Engel group at VA Pibrans - a basic concept for project orion?

[novum]

Hi there,

in interrogation report Larsson et al, Ref. No. SAIC/38, NARA, the following statement can be found:



Can it be, that this basic propulsion principle was reused in project Orion later on in the 50's by Teller et al?

Here a sketch of the pusher plate principle used for project orion quoted from Mead et al, 1972:



Academic discussion quoting references welcome.

Regards,
Manuel

 

[Orionblamblam]

Can it be, that this basic propulsion principle was reused in project Orion later on in the 50's by Teller et al?

Nope.

Also: it was hardly original. "Detonation rockets" had been proposed by the likes of Ganswindt (1880) and Olsen (1901).

 

[Dilandu]

Can it be, that this basic propulsion principle was reused in project Orion later on in the 50's by Teller et al?

Erm, the idea of pulse rocket engine is much older. One such concept was suggested by German inventor Hermann Ganswindt in 1893. He proposed a "void ship", which would move by constantly exploding dynamite charges behind the steel "bell":

 

[Dilandu]

Also: it was hardly original. "Detonation rockets" had been proposed by the likes of Ganswindt (1880) and Olsen (1901).

Heh, you beat me for three minutes with Ganswindt (I was searching for a good picture of his proposed craft)

 

[Orionblamblam]

Heh, you beat me for three minutes with Ganswindt (I was searching for a good picture of his proposed craft)

You snooze, you lose. I got there first, so I get all the hot aerospace groupies.


The sad thing is that people will *race* to be the first to answer nonsense... answers that the original nonsense-spouter probably spent years ignoring or avoiding. A few words with little context? Doesn't stand up against the likes of whole books or patents.

 

[novum]

Ok, you got me there. Another German invention on which project Orion might have been based. However, I mean a similar description that fits this one here:



The von Ganswindt principle described is not really looking like the Orion one, is it?

 

[Dilandu]

You snooze, you lose. I got there first, so I get all the hot aerospace groupies.

Keep them, I prefer hunky roadies anyway)

The sad thing is that people will *race* to be the first to answer nonsense... answers that the original nonsense-spouter probably spent years ignoring or avoiding. A few words with little context? Doesn't stand up against the likes of whole books or patents.

Unfortunately quite true(

 

[Dilandu]

The von Ganswindt principle described is not really looking like the Orion one, is it?

Actually it's quite similar. His concept was exploding the dynamite charges in metal shells, so the "cap" or "bullet" from the shell would be launched forward, hit the bell-shaped "reflector" and give it some momentum. Replace dynamite with nuclear bomb and "cap" with plasma stream, and you would got Orion drive.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Ok, you got me there. Another German invention on which project Orion might have been based.

Only insofar as it was "bang makes vehicle move."

The von Ganswindt principle described is not really looking like the Orion one, is it?

In fact it looks a *lot* like the original Ulam concept, which looked a lot different from the eventual Orion. Early ideas often require *vast* changes once actual engineering gets involved.

 

[Orionblamblam]

Keep them, I prefer hunky roadies anyway)

You're never going to get a girlfriend with *that* attitude...

"Hey, baby, I have a ten-meter pusher plate," now, THAT brings 'em to the yard.

 

[novum]

Only insofar as it was "bang makes vehicle move."



In fact it looks a *lot* like the original Ulam concept, which looked a lot different from the eventual Orion. Early ideas often require *vast* changes once actual engineering gets involved.

Interesting, can you share the original sketches of Ulam?

 

[Dilandu]

You're never going to get a girlfriend with *that* attitude...

Well, as long as I have a smart boyfriend, who is reasonably cute and good in bed - who cares? Geek gay boys loves what-if military hardware)

 

[Orionblamblam]

Interesting, can you share the original sketches of Ulam?

Yes I can. But you should already have them, given the *vast* amount of research you've clearly done on the subject such that you feel clear to declare that Ulam swiped the design from vaguely defined German concepts.

 

[Orionblamblam]

who cares?

Just so long as you're not in Russia...

 

[novum]

Yes I can. But you should already have them, given the *vast* amount of research you've clearly done on the subject such that you feel clear to declare that Ulam swiped the design from vaguely defined German concepts.

I am always willing to change my perspective for good evidence.

 

[Orionblamblam]

I am always willing to change my perspective for good evidence.

Yeah... thing is, we've all see "ooh, neato Lufawaffe Wunderweapons were decades more advanced than everybody" fanboys for years, in some cases *decades,* and "willing to change" is not something actually in the cards.

*Maybe* you're different. But I've spent far too long trying to reason with Wunderwaffles and 9/11 truthers and Apollo hoaxers and Creationists and Democrats and Holocaust deniers and Chemtrail nuts and UFO wackos and Flat Earthers to have any faith in reason winning the day, so now all I have is the transitory glee that comes from mockery.

 

[novum]

Yeah, I am not really one of them, but when it comes to flat earth - joking .. it takes all kinds to make a world.
No, I like academic reasoning on subjects that are not well researched in the sense of convincing evidence.