Thermal Stealth and its effects on air to air engagement

[donnage99]

http://defense-update.com/products/b/black_fox_thermal_defense_17052010.html

If such stealth system could be implemented onto aircraft, the trend of implementing IRST onto existing and future aircraft to counter stealth aircraft with very small RCS would become ineffective. Further more, heat seeking missiles would also become ineffective, leaving the future of WVR engagement doctrines to uncertain future.

 

[Avimimus]

It would be a game changer indeed. Some wild conjecture for you: Supersonic aircraft would still be visible to IR. I suppose that purely optical recognition could still work within 15 kilometres (at most). Aircraft would be more visible against a rapidly changing background - so very high altitudes could be desirable. Given the shorter sensor range more numerous, smaller/cheaper, high endurance patrol/interception platforms might appear.

Of course, that is assuming the technology actually worked (and worked almost perfectly).

 

[Jemiba]

Still not clear to me : Looking at the photos "Camouflage ON/OFF", the panel at the rear of the
car actually is hidden. But that hardly is a part with a strong thermal signature, I think. And if
it would be placed in front of a thermal radiator, it would have to shield the thermal radiation from
behind. So, it could be worthwhile to hide, say, the mentioned concealed commandpost, which has
a low thermal signature by itself, or maybe a tank, with its engine off. The picture of the car shows
it quite well, I think : The back seat is hidden (and probably empty), but the whole upper part of the
car seems to be black, that means cool. It would be really interesting to see the results, when they
place the panel at the engine or the tyres !

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Consider this graph showing how IR transmissionin air varies with wavelength. Imagine you can tailor your IR emissions to the right wavelength... you can effectively defeat IR sensors.

 

[Jd_Sec]

Intriguing concept. It sounds like it's close to violating the laws of Thermodynamics, though. I think the solution would lie in somehow redirecting your IR emissions rather than covering them up. This would be easy to circumvent though if it's an active system.


There would be weight problems (at first) for aircraft. I wonder if the Navy has something like this in the work or in operation for submarines.

 

[aam641]

The demostration only showed the ability to make something cold (dark) look hot (bright). With sufficient resolution, this could be very usefull for confusing identification of vehicles/ships. But I am not sure if I see an aircraft application. Fighters are warm to begin with and making them any warmer would be counter-productive.

 

[AAAdrone]

It could work to modify the infrared image contour of an aircraft to make it less easily identifiable by IIR homing missiles designed to attack certain parts of an aircraft like the cockpit. Image recognition could be spoofed in that regard.

 

[Avimimus]

...which helps if you are trying to decoy.

For wild speculation: What would happen if one were to sacrifice speed for better cooling? Stay subsonic, mix cold air with the engine exhaust, surround the engine with insulated radiators and create a higher drag (longer) nose that distributed friction over a larger area...

It makes me wonder how far one could get (and how much drag would be produced trying to cool a jet or turboprop)?

P.S.
I'm not entirely sure if I understand my earlier post (I think I was mainly trying to keep the thread going)

 

[aam641]

Perhaps you are right and it could be used as last ditch effort save the pilot - missile impact near tail may be survivable, impact into cockpit is not. On the other hand, investing the same amount of money and weight into countermeasures if likely to be more efficient. Another idea - perhaps B-52 could use it to pretend to be B 747, even if the ethics of it would be questionable.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Another possible trick might be to spoof the perceived vector of an aircraft or even of a missile.

 

[aam641]

Sort of like the silly secondary "cockpit" painted on CF-18?

 

[AAAdrone]

Perhaps you are right and it could be used as last ditch effort save the pilot - missile impact near tail may be survivable, impact into cockpit is not. On the other hand, investing the same amount of money and weight into countermeasures if likely to be more efficient. Another idea - perhaps B-52 could use it to pretend to be B 747, even if the ethics of it would be questionable.

I'm thinking spoofing an IIR missile that has had target data and an image contour passed to it by an aircraft's on-board IRST sensor. That way the missile will see an aircraft that doesn't match what it is supposed to engage.