The G3 Battlecruiser after WW2

[uk 75]

As we have looked at various options for RN battledhips after WW2 I cannot resist wondering what would have happened if instead of Nelson and King George V class ships the RN had built four G3 battlecruisers in the years up to 1939.

Rather like Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth the ships are on and off again because of various financial crises. The last of the four enters service in 1937.

The N3 battleship might then have followed as Germany's Z plan unfolds and Japan threatens war in the Pacific.

The above is only a flimsy excuse to encourage some artwork and ideas from folk here.

 

[Dilandu]

RN had built four G3 battlecruisers in the years up to 1939.

It basically means that Washington Naval Treaty allowed such ships to be completed. Which means rather... different power balance in post-1919 world. The G3 are so much more powerful than any other units around, that everyone - US, Japan, France, Italy - would demand either a right to build their own advanced units, or increase of their allowed quotas.

 

[Dilandu]

The last of the four enters service in 1937.

Impossible. No one would build in 1937 a ship, designed in 1921. Technology marched on, after all.

 

[zen]

I think evolution would have happened. For which real world gives us indications of what.

 

[Dilandu]

The only scenario I could imagine for G3 to exist is for Washington treaty to be delayed to, say, 1925 - so the construction of new battleships and battlecruisers progressed far enough for all maror parties to be reluctant to abandon them. So the 40.000-45.000 tons of standard displacement is agreed upon as upper limit, and each side could complete, say, four already-laid up warships (France and Italy could build new ones).

 

[Lascaris]

The only scenario I could imagine for G3 to exist is for Washington treaty to be delayed to, say, 1925 - so the construction of new battleships and battlecruisers progressed far enough for all maror parties to be reluctant to abandon them. So the 40.000-45.000 tons of standard displacement is agreed upon as upper limit, and each side could complete, say, four already-laid up warships (France and Italy could build new ones).

Actually the American and Japanese negotiators were willing to accept a pair of G3s at the time in exchange of Britain retiring a fifth battleship, from memory HMS Tiger when they were completed. Apparently neither knew what G3 truly represented. But it looks to me neither did the British foreign minister who failed to grab on this with both hands.

Well say he does. Has everyone else realized what the G3s are by 1931? If yes say goodbye to the building holiday extending to 1936 and the 35,000t limit.

 

[Dilandu]

Well say he does. Has everyone else realized what the G3s are by 1931? If yes say goodbye to the building holiday extending to 1936 and the 35,000t limit.

They would realize it much sooner - because Washington treaty reqiured all sides to provide basic data about their warships. As soon as US and Japan realize that Britain build ships more powerful than they anticipated, they would either demand further reduction of RN (like scrapping all 13.5-inch units) or the right to complete a pair of modern battlecruisers of their own. France and Italy would also demand more rights.

 

[CV12Hornet]

Okay, going with Lascaris' scenario - well, to answer the question in the title they'd be in a similar situation to the Nelsons, postwar. Namely, worn out, obsolescent, and in need of a modernization to continue to serve that the Royal Navy can't afford to fund. Likely one would be in worse condition than the other.

Now, being fast 30-knot ships they'd be more seriously considered than the 23-knot Nelsons were, but I expect that just means they get to a serious design stage before being canned. See, again, Britain's money issues in the immediate postwar period. Refitting two twenty-year-old battleships is going to be very low on the priority list.

 

[Dilandu]

Okay, going with Lascaris' scenario - well, to answer the question in the title they'd be in a similar situation to the Nelsons, postwar. Namely, worn out, obsolescent, and in need of a modernization to continue to serve that the Royal Navy can't afford to fund. Likely one would be in worse condition than the other.

Important point - they would likely NOT get any mid-war refits in 1930s. The RN policy was to spend what limited money were available on the oldest ships with lasting value - Renown-class and QE-class - so G3's would almost certainly be considered "sufficient as they are". By WW2, they would likely be in the same situation as Nelson's were: worn-out, semi-obsolete, with inadequate air defense and many design flaws not remedied. The only difference, perhaps, is that Americans may be more willing to repair and refit them.

 

[nl4real]

If the restrictions are loose enough for the G3s, then presumably The USN and IJN capital ships constructed around this time are in play as well.

1. What happens after Amagi's construction is aborted by the Kanto Earthquake? Is a replacement allowed?
2. What happens to the N3s? Does the 16in/406mm limit still happen? If so, how are they modified? If not implemented, what response does that draw from Japan and the US?
3. What are Italy and France up to at this time?

All of these affect the context into which the G3s would enter service.

Plan Z was always a pipe dream given Germany's situation. The real action is likely in the Pacific.