The FY53 & FY68 ASW Carriers

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

On page 367 of his book on US Destroyers (the 1982 Edition), Norman Friedman briefly mentions an ASW Carrier scheduled to be built in the FY68 budget. The only information provided was that it was expected to make 30 knots.

The proposed Carrier is also mentioned in The Small Aircraft Carrier: A reevaluation of the Sea Control Ship alongside the FY53 escort carrier, which was withdrawn to pay for the Saratoga.

Do any members have any information on these designs?

 

[TomS]

Late 1960s CVS options are discussed in more detail in Freidman's carrier book. The FY68 ship is probably SCB 100.68, which was a roughly 53000 ton (full load) design with two C-13 catapults and about 50 aircraft (mostly S-2s and SH-3s). She was a minimum Phantom carrier and could have accommodated 2 squadrons of light attack aircraft as a close support carrier instead of ASW (but magazines were small at only 500 tons so she could.not have done this for long without frequent UNREP).

Self-defense was two Tartar launchers (probably Mk13).

Friedman has this as a 28-knot ship. The 30-knot performance didn't come back until the last CVS design in 1967.

 

[TomS]

Friedman also has some discussion of the FY53 CVE effort, but it's a lot more confusing, because there were several nearly concurrent alternative designs -- SCB 43, a Mariner derivative, and CVE 2/53. The last came in at least five versions. Some of the later could even handle jet fighters like the F4D.

 

[A Tentative Fleet Plan]

What do you mean when you describe SCB43 as a Mariner derivative?

Could you provide dimensions and airwings for the designs?

 

[TomS]

I don't. There were three basic design efforts discussed in Friedman:

1) SCB.43
2) A Mariner derivative
3) CVE 2/53

I would recommend tracking down a copy of US Aircraft Carriers. Details for the 1950s escort carriers are not neatly tabulated; you'd have to pull them out of the text. I don't think there are a lot of air wing details, though.

 

[green.nova343]

The description for SCB-43 (the "CVE-ASW") & the other 2 designs are on pp. 340-343. SCB-43, the "CVE-ASW", was a straight-deck design that could carry 30 S-2 Trackers, could reach 26.5 knots, & had 2 H-4B catapults, but ended up being bigger than they'd wanted (slightly larger than an Iwo Jima LPH). Problem was the cost ($60 million estimate, which grew to $69.5 million by 1953).

The Mariner conversions would theoretically have had the option of an angled deck, & their slower speed (20.5 knots) offset by the more powerful C-11 catapults, & was cheaper ($33 million). The problem was it didn't have enough onboard fuel (carriers being expected to refuel their escorts), with less than half the onboard fuel oil reserves. They also considered a modified Neosho (AO 143) design, which would have solved the fuel problem (& possibly allowed for a 3rd catapult), plus still cheaper ($38 million), but apparently they had a problem of too much space & not enough equipment to fill it with to keep its displacement down to maintain speed. Airgroups weren't specified, but I would assume that the plan would be for 30 Trackers (but no other aircraft).

CVE 2/53 was a smaller version of SCB-43, with a smaller airgroup (20 Trackers), & slightly cheaper ($68.1 million). They also had some variants with steam catapults, but wouldn't have been smaller than SCB-43 (1 option having 16 Trackers & 4 F4D/F-6 Skyrays, another having 24 Trackers & 6 Skyrays). Not 100% sure why these versions could have steam catapults when even the angled-deck SCB-43 was limited to the H-4Bs, but oh well.

All of the studies were cancelled, however, in the FY53 budget in favor of CV 60 Saratoga...which then led to the Essex CVS conversions.

As for SCB 100.68, it looks like they planned for 20 Trackers, 16 Sea Kings, 2 UH-2 Seasprites, 1 C-2, 4 E-2 Hawkeyes, & 4 A-4 Skyhawks, with 2 C-13 catatpults & 2 Tartar SAM launchers. At that size, you're almost really talking about a brand-new Essex type of hull, but with a taller hanger (height was 22ft). Problem was, Vietnam lasted too long, & McNamara couldn't get enough support for them.

 

[that_person]

ASW Carriers - Google Drive

drive.google.com

FY53 ASW carriers

 

[Tzoli]

I wonder what radars the sketches represents on these designs.

 

[green.nova343]

I would imagine that it would have been similar to at least what the Essex carriers carried, if not the Midway and Forrestal/Kitty Hawk supercarriers.

• Essex (SCB-27/125 conversions): SPS-8 height-finder (would later be modernized into the SPS-30 3D search), SPS-10 surface search, SPS-12 2D search
• Midway: same fit as the Essex until the SCB 101.66 conversion (which apparently happened 1966-70); post-conversion, SPS-12 was replaced by SPS-43 2D search, SPS-8 upgraded to SPS-30 3D search, SPS-58 added (to detect cruise missiles & paired with the Sea Sparrow launchers)
• Forrestals: started with the same SPS-8A/-10/-12 suite, in the 1960s the SPS-12 was replaced by SPS-29 & SPS-8A was replaced by SPS-30, plus the LN-66 nav radar was added; SPS-58 was added when the Sea Sparrow launchers were added, but that came off in the mid-1980s; 1980s saw the upgrade to the "uniform" standard (SPS-10 replaced by SPS-67, SPS-29 replaced by SPS-49, SPS-30 replaced by SPS-48)
• Kitty Hawks: started with SPS-8B height-finder, SPS-10F surface, SPS-37A 2D (upgraded SPS-29), & SPS-39 3D search; in the 1970s they started the next upgrades (SPS-8B being pull off, SPS-37A replaced by SPS-43A then by SPS-49, SPS-39 replaced first by SPS-52 & then by SPS-48, SPS-58 added when Sea Sparrow replaced the Terrier launchers but then pulled by the mid-1980s, SPS-10 replaced by SPS-67)

So..if I had to guess, they'd probably have SPS-10 for surface search, either SPS-8A/B or SPS-30 for 3D air search, & depending on when constructed either SPS-12 (early 1960s) or SPS-37A/SPS-43A (late 1960s) 2D air search.

 

[Tzoli]

I wonder about the trapezoid shaped radar.

 

[Dilandu]

I wonder about the trapezoid shaped radar.

I suspect it may be schematic interpretation of AN/SPS-2 radar:




It was introduced in 1953, and was initially viewed as next-generation 3D-capable radar, so it stand to reason that carrier, scheduled for 1953 ficsal year, was supposed to be equipped with it.

 

[Tzoli]

Possible, but that was a very big radar, more than 11 meters wide! Though smaller versions were designed and built