The early MiG's in China - MiG-9, MiG-15 and MiG-15UTI

[Deino]

Deino once again with a silly or maybe even stupid question … this time regarding on old type (in fact not my personal darling … I don’t like these old-barrel-type fighters!), the MiG-15 and MiG-15UTI in China.


Fact is that that in early 1950, with China entering the war in Koreas, MANY MiG-15 were delivered via the SU to the PLAAF.

Fact is also that in line with the build-up of a modern aircraft industry under the guidance of Soviet experts, the SU sent several (some say 847 !!) MiG-15 engineers and specialists to China to begin construction of the fighters by October of 1951. However no MiG-15 or MiG-15bis was ever manufactured in China since this agreement was changed to the MiG-17 (aka J-5).

- The still mysterious question therefore remains – in my opinion it is only some kind of Western invention or misinformation which over the years became FACT ... also take a look at several - esp. Russian - web-sites, Yefim Gordon's books on Chinese military aviation ... and not to mention wikipedia ! – why is the MiG-15/MiG-15bis called J-2 ??

- And then, since the Chinese aircraft industry / Shenyang built the MiG-15UTI trainer versions … is this really called JJ-2 ?? Again there are many contradicting reports on that !

- Besides that … are there any information available about the numbers of MiG-15 delivered and esp. the number of each version ??



My problem is, that no actual numbers are available and if/when the MiG-15UTI was really built in China, … then most likely a JJ-designation was plausible/possible.

As such a theory could be that following the canceled JJ-1 from Shenyang, most observers thought the "successor" (which the MiG-15UTI never was) would be most likely the JJ-2 ... and as such - esp. with nearly no knowing about anything in China at that time - the fighter itself should be the J-2.


Just an idea ...


Thanks in advance,
Deino

 

[Deino]

Re: The MiG-15 and MiG-15UTI in China

No-one ?? ???

At least via the Key-forum I received two answers via "Pinko":

There is one saying that Chinese start the designation of their 1st indigenously made plane in its class with “ 5” : to be H-5: 1st gen of bomber in PLAAF service or Q-5, 1st attacker , Z-5 the 1st helicopter or Y-5 and J-5 the 1st fighter. Because 5 pronounced in Chinese is close to the meaning of “None” in Chinese, which means everything starts from “none”. A belief 1st documented some near 3 thousand years ago by an ancient Chinese philosopher-Lao Tzu. Modern physician Niels Bohr certainly adopted this thought when he found his “model of atom” comes to the dead end, and he refered to the Lao tzu's thought as the last explanation .

To the other Q, Chinese just modified the existing Mig-15 to trainer themselves but not made them so it there no У ΜиГ-15 trainer made in China.

One saying is there are total up to 1460 Mig-15s imported from/given by USSR to China in 1950s. no one is made in China, because the starting licensed copy is Mig-17, which is designated J-5 and made in China.

... so at least one part of the puzzle ... ;D

Deino

 

[Deino]

Hey guys … with the help of some very nice guys from Germany I found out the following information:

• About 250 MiG-9 were delivered beginning from November 1950 on from ex-VVS-stocks
• First units were the 16. and 17. Fighter Regiments within the 6. Division at Anshan, Liaoning (Nov. 1950), the 19. and 21. Regiments within the 7. Division at Dongfeng Xian, Jilin (December 1950) and finally the 34. and 36. Regiments within the 12. Division (also December 1950)
• Quite interesting, they were operational only about 4 weeks later than the first MiG-15 unit (reportedly the 10. Regiment / 4. Division at Liaoyang, Liaoning)
• At least by 1956 all MiG-9 in fighter units were replaced by MiG-15

Maybe with some additional help we find out more ….

Deino ;D

 

[TAKHISS]

Two old pics of PLAAF‘s Mig-9

 

[fightingirish]

Superb find, TAKHISS!
Deino will be pleased!

 

[DeeJay1961]

I just found these rare photos of Mig-9 in PLAAF colors. My sources state that the Mig9s were originally delivered to China in overall bare metal (as with Mig-15s) but were painted a whitish cream overall with light blue undersides. After one year the Mig9s were painted overall dull green with light blue undersides. Any information or photos welcome. These photos appear to be training photos and clearly show the Migs in a semi gloss overall gray. Thank you

 

[F.L.]

I just found these rare photos of MiG-9 in PLAAF colors. My sources state that the MiG-9s were originally delivered to China in overall bare metal (as with MiG-15s) but were painted a whitish cream overall with light blue undersides. After one year the MiG-9s were painted overall dull green with light blue undersides. Any information or photos welcome. These photos appear to be training photos and clearly show the Migs in a semi gloss overall gray. Thank you

Which photos are you talking about ?

 

[DeeJay1961]

I mean, after a search on the web, I located this site and the above photos of PLAAF Mig-9s. I don't know where the poster found them in 2010 but they are extremely rare and a great help to aviation history.

 

[F.L.]

Yes, it's true that these images are just extraordinary.
Here are some less rare ones :

 

[DeeJay1961]

Thanks!