The 1968 French civil war and it's aftermath

Michel Van

Michel Van

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May 29, 1968 hit the News that Charles DeGaulle die in a Helicopter crash near Baden-Baden, Germany
The unstable Political scene and struggle for his successor and let to a civil war.
Between the right wing, conservative and Army against Left wing socialist, Communist, labor unions and students
Paris and Major Industrials french city were turn into battlefields
Vietnam terminates there peace talks with USA "until the situation in Paris ends"

This change brutal the European Aerospace Industry
The Bilateral programs Concorde, SEPECAT Jaguar and ELDO Europa Rocket are put on hold and soon cancels by the British Labor Government
Wat let later to the British Army and MI5 coup d'ètat against the prime minster Harold Wilston
Belgium contract for 106 french Dassault Mirage 5 is canceld, they restudy there offers of Northrop F-5 and SAAB J35 Draken

1969
Breton, French Basque region and Corsica declare there independence, while U.N. try to get a armistice agreements
the death of Jean-paul Sartre becomes a public outcry
Refugees from french cvili war overrun the bordering countries, installation of refugee camps
German Chancellor Kurt G. Kiesinger wins narrowly the Re-election against Socialist Willy Brand
The VFW-Fokker VFT291 becomes the Alphajet, while MBB and Dornier lost there French partners do the cvili war.


Great Britain get exclude from NATO and all Bilateral programs resolve and is boycott economical by European states,
After the execution of Harold Wilston on "high treason" by the British military interim government
MBB get the contract for Panavia-100 "Panther" fighter and Panavia-200 "Tornado" Bomber


BAC get order by British RAF to restart the TRS.2 Bomber program and also R&D a new fighter jet program, Wat become the HS.1202-9 "Falcon"
Roll-Royce has massive problems, because the boycott, there cut off from Europe customer.
European Aerospace firms look for License build R&R Engine in other country or import US aircraft Engines

European Launch Development Organization is official closed by his members.

Richard Nixon has to reorganize NATO after France downfall and exclusion of Great Britain.
He offers Germany, Benelux and Italy a closer Defense agreement
Italy demands Nuclear weapons of NATO Multilateral Nuclear Force on future Italian Weapon system
Nixon agree to this, in reaction Swiss, Sweden and Yugoslavia, intensify there Nuclear weapon program.

1970
Italy and Germany signs a Agreement about a Bilateral Space program
the foundation of a new Space Agency: Agenzia spaziale italiana e Germania (ASIG) / Deutsch Italienische Raumfahrt Agentur (DIRA)
and construction of satellite launch vehicle, to launch from San Marco platform
Start of studies by German and Italian Aerospace firms for a new launch rocket in size of old Europa rocket.

1972
USA Operation Linebacker I to IV bring Vietnam back to peace talks

1973
Watergate Scandal never get public (Mark Felt became head of FBI in 1972)
February first Test launch of Italy ALFA ballistic missile
U.N. forces achieve in France a stable armistice agreements and interim government is install.
a triumvirate of Francois Mitterand, Daniel Cohn-Bendit and Jacques Chirac
on May 1, the "French Six Republic of the people" is declare, the fist election wins Francois Mitterrand
Robert Nixon give his ok for the CIA Operation "Mister Freedoom" against socialist France
The french refugee camps in the bordering countries are disbanded, allot french right wing ask for asylum.
October declaration of first five year-plan of french six republic.
the first Alphajet flew near Hamburg
Ironically do to European boycott of Great Britain before Yom Kippur war and Ol-crisis
makes it's presentable at Arab states and third world dictators, who buy massive British weapon and Aircraft.
wat give British Aerospace industry a boost

1974
August the first Panavia "Panther" flew in West Germany

1975
January USAF announced that Boeing YF-18 "Hawk" is winner of the ACF competition.


the first HS.1202-9 Falcon prototype flew
800px-F-16A_125th_FIG_at_Wright-Patterson_AFB_1987.JPEG

Here a specimen of BAC "Falcon" for USAF on Wirght-Patterson AFB in 1977

the first new TRS.2 rollout
800px-BAC_TSR-2_at_Duxford.jpg


1976
USA launch Skylab B + Skylab 4&5 with ASTP 2&3 Missions for United States Bicentennial
last US military leave Vietnam, official end of the Vietnam War
Ronald Reagan wins the US presidential election against newcomer Jimmy Carter
Switzerland tested successful there Atombomb

1977
President Ronald Reagan announced production of B-1A Bomber and LGM-118 "Peacemaker"
A Order for 150 B-1a, and the B-52 retirement from 1980 is sign by the President
Italy ALFA ballistic missile become becomes operational

1978
SAIG/DIRA launch successful there first Rocket in Space

1979
First B-1a deliver to USAF beginn phaseout of B-52 Bomber
 
Last edited:
Michel

A fascinating period of European history. If you are interested in British what if history there is an excellent site which has Wilson winning the 1970 election only to be replaced in due course by a right wing Tory government led by the infamous Enoch Powell
http://www.btinternet.com/~chief.gnome/

The 1968 military coup rumours around newspaper proprietor Cecil King were a non starter. There was not the slightest chance that Lord Mountbatten would have supported an unconstitutional military intervention, still less that British officers would have broken their oath to HM Queen Elizabeth II.

A political coup, however, by Wilson to keep himself in power by deferring the 1970 Election was feared by some. Wilson was paranoid about plots against him from both Left and Right. In some cases he was right, there were elements in the Labour Party and in the Establishment/MI5. However, they were a small if colourful minority.

Unlike in France the 1968 riots and demonstrations in Britain did not coalesce into political solidarity between students (seen as privileged middle class intellectuals) and the Union movement
(well entrenched but stronger in the North than in the South even then).

A Powell led administration might have been more sympathetic to higher defence spending. Curiously though he was a critic of such Government over expenditure and might not have done so.

I am no expert on France, but if De Gaulle had died in a helicopter crash in 1968, would not the Generals have rallied to Pompidou, as they did in real life when Le Grand retired a few years later?

Germany is another matter. Franz Josef Strauss as Chancellor would have supported major rearmament. He even advocated a German tactical nuclear weapons programme and would certainly have pressed for a VJ 101 or AVS style aircraft to carry a weapon. Strauss was however a realist and he would have preserved the myth that the US controlled German nuclear weapons.

Hope this helps

UK 75
 
Belgium had in May 1968, a major problem between french Walloon and dutch Flemish
about the french Status of Catholic University of (flemish)Leuven (Belief me, that a explosive mixture)
with riots on same level like in Paris
in OTL the Belgium Government was force to build a NEW city "Louvain-la-Neuve" to host the French part of Catholic University of Leuven

with French Civil war and refugee wave on Belgium Walloon and Brussels, could trigger also a Civil War in Belgium ?

back on TL
i post this also on our sister site "What If", they love the military coup against Harold Wilson (there allot of TRS.2 fans ;D )
while on AlternateHistory.com they criticized the military coup
as Alternative i keep Wilson in power and
the TRS.2 is replace by F-111K wat keep GB out MRCA program wat let to Panavia "Panther"
but with SEPECAT Jaguar program death
will the British Labor Government buy US Northop F-5 as replacement ?
there were so overzealously about USA products ::)

I had same idea with "International Brigades" for France with Jim Morrison and Carlos the Jackals as volunteer

uk 75 said:
I am no expert on France, but if De Gaulle had died in a helicopter crash in 1968, would not the Generals have rallied to Pompidou, as they did in real life when Le Grand retired a few years later?
Click to expand...
exactly that wat let to Civil War ! normally if President dies in office the head of Senate of France has to replace him until new presidential election
unfortunately in May 1968 the President of the French Senate was Gaston Monnerville, he was of French Guiana origin
and consider by Right wing politician as a "Negro", the Gaullist consider him a traitor, because he opposed DeGaulle Reforms efforts
also Monnerville accused Premier ministre Georges Pompidou his roll in this affaire of "abuse of authority" in Public .

So the President of the French Senate abhorred by the Right an the Gaullist
French General who public demand Premier ministre Georges Pompidou becomes President, bypassing the French Constitution
and Students and extreme Left Wing who got enough of this charade and start new Revolution
 
the French civil war in Detail
The Events:
At begin it's look that French Military had the Situation fast under Control, but that was illusionary
the Students and other protester became resistance fighters and terrorist.
and the Troops had face: bomb attacks, guerilla operations, Sniper and Sabotage
The French Railway network centralized in Paris became unusable by bombing of bridges and Signalling controls,
was disrupt French Military supply transport and French economy.
but the Right wings strike back on each left wing Attack
Jean-paul Sartre, who was struck dead by extreme right ragtag, ravaging his home in 1969
after this the Left guerilla start aimed attack right wing and Gaullist politician
Allot of politician, intellectuals and Artis left Paris to country site or left the Country
like Fashion industry escape to Milan, London, New York

1969
the European state leader were dispute how to stop this madness.
German Chancellor Kurt G. Kiesinger refuse to send German troops into France with his famous word "Never Again a German Invasion on France"
British prime minster Harold Wilston had own problems back home with a MI5 and Military who plot against him.
Belgium had major internal problems under Wallon's and Flemish about the University of Leuven and the french refugees question
but they come to agreement for Arms embargo against France
in the time Volunteer forms "International Brigades 68" in homage to one in Spanish civil war
one of Volunteer was already a legend: rockstar Jim Morrison, another will become infamous: llich Ramirez Sánchez aka "Carlos the Jackal"
The U.N. Security Council try to stop the Civil War, but there attempt are Veto by USA (support the Gaullist) or Veto by USSR (support Socialist)
Secretly the CIA and KGB support the parties, while arms dealers makes fortune with illegal deals
in same time Brittany, French Basque region and Corsica declare there independence

1970
The former central governed country was now a "rag rug" controlled by different political groups, Warlords, and communes
Guerilla warfare of left wings has extends to major industrial cities of france
in oder to spread the Military large-scale over country and fight them easier, the plan successes
on Country site escalate vendettas between Families, even old WW2 Resistance case were revenge bloody, also ethnic classing against Arabs, Africans happens
In Capitol Paris they fought for the control of the city, some observer describe it as "like Battle of Stalingrad"
new militias show up, like the "Vlaamse Bevrijding Leger", they fight for French Flanders return to Flanders (former part of Belgium)
also a increasing number of international Terrorist who "learn they work in france" mostly Arab, Germans, Italians and US citizens
The french left-wingers form Political Coalition "Force Alliance France"(FAF)
led by Socialist Francois Mitterand, student leader Daniel Cohn-Bendit and Jacques Chirac (former Gaullist)

1971
Jim Morrison dies in combat in Paris, He becomes a martyr for the FAF
more and more the news of sectarian violence and civilian massacres are report by the Red Cross
like the Massacre of "Val o pointe", were extreme right military kills 1000 civilians, who life in a pacifists commune.
the Massacres brings a worldwide public outcry to stop this madness, that even eclipse the protest against the Vietnam War.
The FAF gains control over major industrial cities while French military run slowly out Ammunition and Gasoline

1972
in Paris the FAF gain control over Paris
The French Generals put a despair Ultimatum: Surrender Paris to them or they destroy the City with a Nuclear Weapon
USA and USSR use the Red telephone to deal with this dangerous crisis and vote unanimity in U.N.
Atlast U.N. the Security Council vote the Resolution to order NATO for Airstrikes and send U.N Peacekeeper force into France
in hours the NATO attack several french military bases and stop the imminent nuclear attack
with this nuclear crisis even Germany was will to send German troops as U.N. force
but let to a heavy political dispute in German Parliament about this use of Germans armed forces
Chancellor Kurt G. Kiesinger surveyed motions of no confidence by Socialist and War opponent.
in the end, Germany, Netherlands, Italian and Spanish troop cross the frontier

the French Military and other Militia groups surrender to German U.N. forces,
a U.N. armistice agreements is sign in Palace of Versailles, between FAF, french Politicians, Military and other Militia
they form a interim Government and start negotiation for formation of new France
during the time the U.N. force start to disarm the Militia and hunt war criminals like "Carlos the Jackal"

1973 the Interim Government sign a new Constitution for a Socialist rule people republic
first May declaration of the french "Six Republic of the people", the fist election wins Francois Mitterrand (FAF)

but the Six Republic of the people is a ruin, compared to glorious fifth Republic
Industrial production down to 35% of former fifth Republic
Paris and several industrial cities are depopulated ruins
Red Cross and U.N. estimate 1 Million French died during Civil war, around 19 Million french flee the cities, to french Country side and the bordering countries

but the biggest shock is keep secret: the U.N. discovers that 12 nuclear warhead of French "Force de Frappe" are MISSING
 
Eh eh Michel... did you heard about this (recent) comic ? ;D
http://www.editions-delcourt.fr/catalogue/bd/jour_j_6_l_imagination_au_pouvoir
 
Archibald

I became hooked on BD (comicbook colour novels) when I worked in Brussels from 1985
to 1987. There is much in these books to interest what-if fans, but this new series looks
spot on. It is a shame that apart from "Ministry of Space" the UK is not so keen on them.
Various what-if permutations for Britain would be interesting.
I would love to have the skill to BD my UK 75 variant or the proposed novel by XR226.

Michel

Thanks for coming back on the France history. I really did not know that. On the Wilson coup. I would leave your story as it is. After all what-if is the fun of variety. There were certainly enough Colonels and Squadron Leaders who were seriously p%%ed off with the Labour Government. If events on the Continent had gone the way you suggest.. A BD version, with aircraft drawings of course would be fun.

UK 75
 
yes Archibald, it was the source of inspiration to this TL


UK75, i have allot gigantic hole in this scenario some Detail are wrong to OTL or "adjusted" for TL
my only source is wikipedia :-[ :-[ :-[
 
That was a fun reading. Great plot @Michel Van & al.

And regarding the infamous Louvain/Leuven saga, the poor side of the story yet untold is for the countless number of tourists lost since turning south when they should drive north... And vice-versa.
 
www.bedetheque.com

Jour J -6- L'Imagination au pouvoir ?

Mai 1968, des malfaiteurs s'emparent de 200 millions de francs issus de la Banque de France. Cinq ans après avoir disparu au moment du partage, l'un des braqueurs revient demander sa part. Mais les choses ont changé : après les évènements de Mai 68, la guerre civile qui s'ensuivit et la...
www.bedetheque.com www.bedetheque.com
A French graphic novel had its own version
For a synopsis of this and the whole series

Jour J (bande dessinée) — Wikipédia

fr.m.wikipedia.org fr.m.wikipedia.org
They are only available in French, which is a pity as many of the titles would interest US and UK readers. Sadly most of our graphic novels are just superhero stuff or tv spinoffs.
 
The real risk for a French civil war was hardly 1968, rather 1958, 1960 or 1961. And remember, from Gerboise bleue onwards (February 1960) was testing atomic bombs in Algeria. France was lucky the military never grasped the concept of nuclear blackmail... now that would make an intriguing scenario.
 
Interesting scenario.
In particular for Italy the downfall of France could either lead to a raise of Italian power into the Meditarraean or a rise of Communist riots with a possible side effect of a new civil war even in Italy.

Communist riots and associated terrorism (see Brigate Rosse or Nuclei Armati Proletari) could eventually lead to succes to the right wing "coup d'etat":
en.wikipedia.org

Golpe Borghese - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In this case Italy could increase its military strenght as also to achieve its own nuclear capability (see Alfa missile and not only on submarines, even the Vittorio Veneto would be armed in that way and probably its near sister the carrier Trieste eventually built).
The partnership with Germany would be still even feaseble in military context but not in space, where Italy could and would look to U.K. in the same fashion that really happened with launch of Ariel 5 satellite from San Marco during 1974).
 
What if France separates along economic and political lines. Say Georges Pompidou's economic programs stagnate with collapsing industrial regions (e.g. Limousin) developing rapidly-growing numbers of bored, unemployed teenagers who turn to communism.
Other industrial regions near Marseilles and the Belgian border also stagnate, producing even more communists.
Meanwhile, old-money near Paris becomes increasingly conservative, even royalist.
 
riggerrob said:
What if France separates along economic and political lines. Say Georges Pompidou's economic programs stagnate with collapsing industrial regions (e.g. Limousin) developing rapidly-growing numbers of bored, unemployed teenagers who turn to communism.
Other industrial regions near Marseilles and the Belgian border also stagnate, producing even more communists.
Meanwhile, old-money near Paris becomes increasingly conservative, even royalist.
Click to expand...
You mean perhaps a East-West split?
Democratic Republic of France DRF and a Republic Popular of France RPF?
 
I would have thought a civil war might have been more likely in the 1930s than the 1960s.
 
No. The french PC was a joke and the students hated it. The communists completely failed to understand or use Mai 68. It was a spontaneous, anarchical movement that took the entire political spectrum by storm and surprise.
 
Archibald said:
No. The french PC was a joke and the students hated it. The communists completely failed to understand or use Mai 68. It was a spontaneous, anarchical movement that took the entire political spectrum by storm and surprise.
Click to expand...
Was that also not the Russian Revolution.
 
Its not really the same thing, it was a spontaneous outbreak of rage, the only fear of revolution seems to have been within the government that quickly crumbled. The students and the unions wanted different things, both were largely self-interested aims. The fact the Gaullist party increased its vote afterwards indicates how thin the left-wing support was.

You could argue most of Europe had these types of confrontations. None was ever a revolution.
1917 in Russia and 1918 in Germany were different, they were fighting to change the system and the destructive forces of war in which they were being thrust as cannon fodder. Even the Americans in the late 1960s with the Vietnam draft never gained enough momentum to tip towards revolution. Revolutions come from people who have nothing to loose, none of the left factions in France in 1968 were in that predicament.

The right and left violence of the 1930s could have spilled over into serious unrest, maybe not civil war a la Spain but something more politically destabilising.
 
France in the 30's was pretty awful in that regard. In the end it escaped a right-wing coup in peacetime only for Vichy to happen later (sigh).
A lot of French people from 2020 often complain about the (supposed) decline of the country, blah blah, that kind of idiocy. I often think "go and learn about the 30's and stop whinning."
 
Hood said:
"... Revolutions come from people who have nothing to loose, ...

The right and left violence of the 1930s could have spilled over into serious unrest, maybe not civil war a la Spain but something more politically destabilising."
Click to expand...
What was the climate like - Western Europe - during the 1930s. Did France or Spain suffer droughts as bad as North America or the Ukraine?
How plentiful were harvests?
Were French or Spanish farmers ever at risk of starvation or bankruptsy?
 
If you want to know how an actual coup against Harold Wilson (or Jim Callaghan, Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock) might have looked like this 1982 novel is much closer to reality than a military version.
en.m.wikipedia.org

A Very British Coup - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
In reality the Wilson and Callaghan governments had pretty good relations with Washington (better than the short lived Heath government of 70-74).
Ironically the real anti Labour party coup was staged from within the party by Tony Blair and "New Labour" in the 90s. The Jeremy Corbyn counter-coup failed spectacularly and Sir Keir Starmer's model is said to be Harold Wilson.
As I write this, the Civil Servants described in the novel above have just removed Boris Johnson's much hated adviser Dominic Cummings in another "very British coup".
 
It is total B.S. Isolated whackos and morons with delusions of grandeur. There are a lot of stupid people like this in nowaday France: has been bad singers (Lalanne) buffoons (Bigard) racist political analysts (Zemmour) formerly respectable people turned insane (Dieudonné, Ménard, Bardot) scientists and journalists turned nut (Raoult) right wing nuts (Philippot and a crapload of others) isolated looners and conspirationists, former military dreaming of Napoleonic glory...

Geez, the list is endless.

Remembers the guillotines in my backward corner of France ? we also got "green circles" whackos - painting green circles all over the countryside as a first step toward seizing the Elysée palace and getting a popular trial for Macron (I kid you not).

Clam Reports

Clam Reports is a dedicated team of international reporters, journalists, and developers. We translate and compile local news sources from various languages into comprehensive English reports, delivering accurate and swift information to our users.
www.tellerreport.com www.tellerreport.com

(warning, the source is probably shitty, but I need something in english language for you my fellow readers, so I picked a random source on Google)

Led by this whacky asshole, conspirationist and Q-anon fan trying to import that bollovks in my country.

 
Archibald said:
we also got "green circles" whackos - painting green circles all over the countryside as a first step toward seizing the Elysée palace and getting a popular trial for Macron (I kid you not).

Clam Reports

Clam Reports is a dedicated team of international reporters, journalists, and developers. We translate and compile local news sources from various languages into comprehensive English reports, delivering accurate and swift information to our users.
www.tellerreport.com www.tellerreport.com

(warning, the source is probably shitty, but I need something in english language for you my fellow readers, so I picked a random source on Google)

Led by this whacky asshole, conspirationist and Q-anon fan trying to import that bollovks in my country.

Click to expand...
Surprised that the Gendarmes haven't found something actionable to arrest the leading idiot for yet.
 

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