Sweden SAAB Future Combat Air System (FCAS)

[flateric]

https://twitter.com/GripenNews/status/1014787393612926977

 

[raptor82]

SAAB FCAS supersonic Loyal Wingman UAV study：

https://www.icas.org/ICAS_ARCHIVE/ICAS2022/data/papers/ICAS2022_0570_paper.pdf

 

[VTOLicious]

TWZ opinion on SAABs loyal wingman study...

"...Extrapolating that, and as we have discussed repeatedly before, one could argue that 4th generation fighters like Gripen could benefit from advanced loyal wingmen drones even more than 5th or 6th generation types. Pairing the two together would breathe entirely new life into the 4th generation fighter and would give them a stealthy, penetrating capability via their loyal wingmen drones, as well as greatly expanded tactical flexibility, increased awareness, and drastically enhanced survivability. One may also be able to argue that with high-end, largely autonomous uncrewed wingmen, more advanced crewed fighters may not be needed for the vast majority of missions.
In other words, SAAB could pair its Gripen E/F with something like the drone seen in the test to give Gripen vastly enhanced capabilities at a lower cost as compared to buying highly advanced, stealthy, manned fighters and training pilots constantly to fly them..."

https://www.twz.com/air/this-is-saabs-concept-for-a-supersonic-stealthy-loyal-wingman-drone

 

[raptor82]

Saab has received an order from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) regarding conceptual studies for future fighter systems. The contract period is 2024-2025.

Saab receives order for Swedish future fighter concept studies

Saab has received an order from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) regarding conceptual studies for future fighter systems. The contract period is 2024-2025.

www.saab.com

 

[snne]

Saab has received an order from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) regarding conceptual studies for future fighter systems. The contract period is 2024-2025.

Saab receives order for Swedish future fighter concept studies

Saab has received an order from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) regarding conceptual studies for future fighter systems. The contract period is 2024-2025.

www.saab.com

too little too late

 

[raptor82]

Swedish FCAS timelines：

https://twitter.com/x/status/1793216831584444513

View: https://x.com/garethjennings3/status/1793216831584444513?s=46&t=5THFve96Abhx7VANdlTzrg

 

[Maro.Kyo]

I wonder if Swedish requirements could coincide with ROKAF requirements for the 2030s, and if they could actually do something together. Both have expertise designing and producing 4.5th gen fighters, have domestic industrial bases, have cooperated in defence before, have negotiated for joint development of KF-X in the past (and Sweden assisted subsystem development), both are very much developed economies but lacks critical mass/gross economic size to finance next gen fighter development alone but still wants 5+ gen fighter for the near future. Also, both are directly facing its adversary at it's vicinity (for Sweden it's Russian forces in the Baltic/Kaliningrad/St. Petersburg and defence of Finland as NATO ally, whereas for ROK it's DPRK directly above it and Chinese forces just across the Yellow Sea. Very similar operational environments, especially the distance, if you ask me). Korea's also developing the engine for the next gen fighter so that could be very attractive prospect for Sweden as well.

I think Sweden delaying future fighter related decisions to 2030s could actually turn out to something beneficial for both countries. Be it a joint programme based on KF-X block III or a clean sheet KF-XX/whatever they would call it in Sweden, or just a joint development of individual subsystems and adjuncts, I think both countries could work it out. Most importantly, I think it's important to note that all countries capable of developing their own fighter jet are already up to something be it GCAP, NGF, KAAN or AMCA.

Though I wonder if Sweden would try to stick to a light-weight single engined design for 5+ gen fighters like the FS2020. This might be the biggest disagreement if there is to be any serious talks.

 

[apparition13]

This was the previous effort:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/saab-fs2020-stealth-fighter-concept.9798/

It would have used a single engine in the 40k lbs thrust category.

 

[Scott Kenny]

I wonder if Swedish requirements could coincide with ROKAF requirements for the 2030s, and if they could actually do something together.

That would certainly be my recommendation to the two of them.

Though IIRC the follow on to the KF21 is supposed to be more like F-15 sized and capabilities.

But IIRC Korea is working on an F414-sized 5th gen engine, equivalent to F119 or F135 in supercruise etc.

Though I wonder if Sweden would try to stick to a light-weight single engined design for 5+ gen fighters like the FS2020. This might be the biggest disagreement if there is to be any serious talks.

That's probably going to be a big issue.

What they should publicly aim for is operating costs of about half that of an F-35, however large an aircraft that ends up being. (bigger than a Gripen by at least 25% in gross weight terms, IMO)

 

[raptor82]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1793542061200953539

View: https://x.com/garethjennings3/status/1793542061200953539?s=46&t=5THFve96Abhx7VANdlTzrg

 

[Hood]

What's the betting they call this Draken II?

 

[VTOLicious]

A modern day Draken with LEVCONs and an F414 engine would be an awesome machine!

 

[FighterJock]

I agree with you about Draken II Hood, since the UK have Typhoon and Tempest it would be a good name for the SAAB FCAS.

 

[Springtime]

Why not the F-15EX is officially the Eagle II plus it looks like a sequel to the Draken anyway

 

[TomcatViP]

Saab is pressing forward for FCAS*:

“Never been better Situation”

Peter Nilsson, head of Advanced programs, speaks.

- There has never been a better situation with a trained workforce. We notice that when we talk to others in the industry. They aim to get to where we are, he tells DN.
[...]
A decision on a new combat aircraft system will probably come around 2030, something that Saab believes is too late.

SAAB: Det här vill vi bygga till Sveriges försvar

marcusoscarsson.se

In Swedish, but you might want to use an online translator

Image sourced from here

*Sweden only - Not related to the Franco-German-Spanish one.

 

[snne]

Saab is pressing forward for FCAS*:

SAAB: Det här vill vi bygga till Sveriges försvar

marcusoscarsson.se

In Swedish, but you might want to use an online translator

Image sourced from here

*Sweden only - Not related to the Franco-German-Spanish one.

I find it interesting that Saab/Sweden has technically been involved in every European/semi-European next gen combat aircraft project (GCAP-Kaan-FCAS) but has committed to none for varied reasons.

They gotta get their act together, whether that means joining others in their efforts or developing something along the lines of a light fighter alone, à la a stealth Gripen.



Though I do find their wingman efforts to be commendable and like the design that they're working on.

https://www.twz.com/air/this-is-saabs-concept-for-a-supersonic-stealthy-loyal-wingman-drone

 

[raptor82]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827219213771034798

View: https://x.com/gripennews/status/1827219213771034798?s=46&t=5THFve96Abhx7VANdlTzrg

 

[martinbayer]

I honestly love and admire how feisty Sweden continues to punch *way* above their weight class when it comes to all matters of defense. And I write that as someone whose home town Aschaffenburg in the middle of Germany was under Swedish occupation during the Thirty Years' War...

 

[Scott Kenny]

I find it interesting that Saab/Sweden has technically been involved in every European/semi-European next gen combat aircraft project (GCAP-Kaan-FCAS) but has committed to none for varied reasons.

They gotta get their act together, whether that means joining others in their efforts or developing something along the lines of a light fighter alone, à la a stealth Gripen.

A Stealth Gripen is called an F35. That's kinda the minimum bay size for a "light fighter": 2x BVRAAMs and 8x SDBs (or 2x ASMs).

 

[kqcke for you]

A Stealth Gripen is called an F35. That's kinda the minimum bay size for a "light fighter": 2x BVRAAMs and 8x SDBs (or 2x ASMs).

Well it would be probaly a bit lighter and more optemised. Maybe something like the light fighter from VTOLicious give or take what the engine is.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Well it would be probaly a bit lighter and more optemised. Maybe something like the light fighter from VTOLicious give or take what the engine is.

Maybe VTOLicious design could work, though I'd want a bay large enough to carry both a 2000lb/ASM and 2x BVRAAMs. His existing design isn't quite big enough to do that, needs to widen the bay by 8-10" to make that work.

But seriously, the minimum bay volume for a "light fighter" in the Gripen class is roughly what the F35 has. 2x ASMs and 2x BVRAAMs, or up to 6x BVRAAMs.

 

[TomcatViP]

Notice the HUD in the above view of the cockpit!

 

[snne]

But seriously, the minimum bay volume for a "light fighter" in the Gripen class is roughly what the F35 has. 2x ASMs and 2x BVRAAMs, or up to 6x BVRAAMs.

Up until recently even the J-20 didn't have space for 6xBVRAAMs in its main bays, this is still very unconventional for most LO aircraft and the odd shaped internal space that was reserved for fiting a JDAM inside the F-35 was also very useful for increasing the AA load of the plane.

 

[Scott Kenny]

Up until recently even the J-20 didn't have space for 6xBVRAAMs in its main bays, this is still very unconventional for most LO aircraft and the odd shaped internal space that was reserved for fiting a JDAM inside the F-35 was also very useful for increasing the AA load of the plane.

Uhm, F-22 has 2x WVRAAM and 6x BVRAAM, all internal. I have no clue why the J20 wasn't built to equal that.

But fine, about the minimum anyone will accept for a light fighter is 4x BVRAAM.

However, your bays also need to be big enough to hold a 2000lb class bomb or ASM to be useful on the multirole side. Which results in enough space to hold 2x BVRAAMs on the normal rails and 2x more in each ASM volume. That's 4x AMRAAM in the case of VTOLicious' concept (as expanded). Edit: or 2x BVRAAM and 1x ASM for VTOLicious' concept.

 

[fightingirish]

Saab is pressing forward for FCAS*:
[...]
*Sweden only - Not related to the Franco-German-Spanish one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828211159230542189

View: https://x.com/GripenNews/status/1828211159230542189

YouTube-Video (Swedish)

 

[kqcke for you]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828211159230542189

View: https://x.com/GripenNews/status/1828211159230542189

YouTube-Video (Swedish)

So maybe the jet and UCAV are the same platform but have a different front.

 

[pedrospe]

So maybe the jet and UCAV are the same platform but have a different front.

Looks like it, but it's a bit weird, because a Ucav tends to be smaller and with a smaller engine, a jet fighter on the other hand is bigger, with a bigger engine, better electronic suit, bigger weapons bays etc...

 

[kqcke for you]

Looks like it, but it's a bit weird, because a Ucav tends to be smaller and with a smaller engine, a jet fighter on the other hand is bigger, with a bigger engine, better electronic suit, bigger weapons bays etc...

Yeah but Loyal Wingmans like the Airbus design are already as big and in some parts even larger than a gripen. So if there size wont be mutch off from an gripen it could become possible.

 

[red admiral]

Everyone likes modular aircraft concepts until the engineers calculate the mass penalty and the government realises it needs to spend more money buying more modules.

 

[Forest Green]

Focus | Saab reveals sixth-generation manned and unmanned fighter concepts for Swedish Armed Forces

Focus | Saab reveals sixth-generation manned and unmanned fighter concepts for Swedish Armed Forces

armyrecognition.com