Supermarine type designations

[Sandy22]

Dear friends,
I have an incomplete list of Supermarine types (a big part of them are Spitfire variants, but I should still match type-number with RAF version in most cases):

221 Southampton eventually redesignated Scapa
224 Private venture precursor of Spitfire
227 Southampton eventually redesignated Stranraer
228 Walrus private venture prototype
236 Walrus
300 Spitfire Mk.I
304 Stranraer
309 Sea Otter private venture precursor of Spitfire
322 type 322
323 Spitfire
329 Spitfire
330 Spitfire
331 Spitfire
337 Spitfire
340 Spitfire
347 ???
349 Spitfire
350 Spitfire
351 Spitfire
355 Spitfire Mk.VB conversion
356 Spitfire
357 Spitfire
358 Spitfire
360 Spitfire
361 Spitfire
362 Spitfire
365 Spitfire
366 Spitfire
367 Spitfire
369 Spitfire
371 Spiteful
372 Spitfire
373 Spitfire
375 Spitfire
377 Spitfire
379 Spitfire
381 Seagull 1.st prototype
385 Spitfire LF Mk.IXB conversion
386 Spitfire
388 Spitfire
389 Spitfire Prototype
390 Spitfire Production
392 Attacker
395 Spitfire
505
508 type 508/529/543 undercarriage-less fighter
510 type 510/517/528/535
517 type 510/517/528/535
525 Scimitar conversion of 3.rd Type 508 prototype with swept wings
528 type 510/517/528/535
529 type 508/529/543 undercarriage-less fighter
535 type 510/517/528/535 Type 528 fitted with an afterburning version of the Nene, a lengthened nose and a tricycle undercarriage, precursor of the Supermarine Swift
543 type 508/529/543 undercarriage-less fighter
544 Scimitar
545 type 545

Supermarine was a subsidiary of Vickers, but I don't know if Vickers numbers share the same sequence (I have also some Vickers type-numbers in the 6xx series)

 

[hesham]

Hi Sandy22,

324 & 325 twin engined fighters to Spec. F18/37.
327 a pusher fighter to same Spec. F18/37.
316,317 & 318 foue engined heavy bombers to Spec. B12/36.
312 was Spitfire with Merlin E engine to Spec. F37/35.
311 ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, ,, to Spec. F37/34.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

305 was two seat day and night fighter,it was also a turret fighter
to Spec. F7/30.
And many Spitfire types is here;
http://aeroflt.users.netlink.co.uk/types/uk/supermarine/spitfireI-III/Spitfire1.htm
And Swift types;
http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/sabswift/sabswift.htm

 

[elmayerle]

Wouldn't the Vickers Type numbers be extensions of this series? After all, the original Vickers GOR339 entry was the Type 571.

 

[Sandy22]

My Vickers list is outrageously short: :-[

660 Valiant 1.st prototype
663 Viscount
667 Valiant 2.nd prototype

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Supermarine-179 was all metal monoplane transport flying boat for seven crew
and 40-passenger,powered by six 850 hp RR Buzzard engines,project only.

 

[Sandy22]

Yesterday I was disappointed to discover that in my DB I had only 3 Vickers type #, so I did some search and data entry the result is here:
http://mildb.org/app/air/model.php?Keys=Vickers
and, of course, for Supermarine type # here:
http://mildb.org/app/air/model.php?Keys=Supermarine

 

[danielgrimes]

From what I've read...

300s were Supermarine numbers - the vast majority were spitfire variations, but included spiteful and attacker as well
400s were WW2 Vickers Bomber numbers
After the attacker, Supermarine had to jump to 500, starting with 505 (undercarriage-less plan for 508) through to 589 - variable geometry tactical bomber that looks like the basis for the AFVG programme that produced the tornado.
Vickers therefore jumped to the 6/700s for their post WW2 bombers (660 Valiant)

The numbering appears to have started after the 1928 Vickers take-over of Supermarine, but Supermarine seem to have been the more disciplined with their numbers??? - the Vickers OR.330 work and their work on the Swallow does not seem to have type numbers referenced anywhere.

 

[Boogey]

Here's my Supermarine aircraft type list, not complished yet, because there are planes still to discover.
It contains only the military role machines.
Abbreviations in Polish are : 1, 2, 3, 4 - number of engines ; I, II, III - plane configuration ;
+, -, A+, A-, L - type of u/c ( A - amphibia, L - flying boat ).
Then the role of aircraft : M - fighter, P - patrol / reco, B - bomber, O - observation,
T - torpedo, Tp. - transport, F - photo reco and X - experimental. Small letter h is high altitude,
c.d. - heavy long range, n - night and o - jet.
For example Type 508 ... 2I+ o.M.X. - two engined monoplane with retractable gear
experimental jet fighter.

Type 190 Southampton II ...............2IIL R.
Type 221 Scapa ...........................2IIL R.
Type 223 Seagull V .......................1IIA+ R.
Type 224 ....................................1I– M.
Type 227 Southampton ..................2IIL R.
Type 228 Seagull V .......................1IIA+ R.
Type 236 Walrus I .........................1IIA+ P.R.
Type 300 Spitfire I ........................1I+ M.
Type 304 Stranraer .......................2IIL R.
Type 305 Gun Turret Spitfire ...........1I+ M2.
Type 309 Sea Otter .......................1IIA+ P.Tp.
Type 312 Spitfire I .........................1I+ M.
Type 314 .................................... 2IL Br.
Type 315 Walrus ............................1IIA+ P.R.
Type 316 ....................................4I+ c.d.B.
Type 317 ....................................4I+ c.d.B.
Type 318 ....................................4I+ c.d.B.
Type 320 Seagull V .......................1IIA+ R.
Type 322 Dumbo ...........................1I– B.T.
Type 323 High-Speed Spitfire ..........1I+ M.X.
Type 324 Twin Spitfire ...................2I+ M.X.
Type 325 Twin Spitfire ...................2I+ M.X.
Type 327 Twin Spitfire ...................2I+ M.X.
Type 329 Spitfire II .......................1I+ M.
Type 330 Spitfire III ......................1I+ M.
Type 331 Spitfire V .......................1I+ M.
Type 337 Spitfire IV ......................1I+ M.
Type 340 Seafire I ........................1I+ M.
Type 348 Spitfire III ......................1I+ M.
Type 349 Spitfire V .......................1I+ M.
Type 350 Spitfire VI ......................1I+ h.M.
Type 351 Spitfire VII .....................1I+ h.M.
Type 352 Spitfire V .......................1I+ M.
Type 353 Spitfire IV ......................1I+ F.
Type 355 Spitfire V .......................1IW M.
Type 356 Spitfire XXI ....................1I+ M.
Type 357 Seafire II .......................1I+ M.
Type 358 Seafire III ......................1I+ M.
Type 359 Spitfire VIII ....................1I+ h.M.
Type 360 Spitfire VIII ....................1I+ M.
Type 361 Spitfire IX ......................1I+ h.M.
Type 362 Spitfire X .......................1I+ F.
Type 365 Spitfire XI ......................1I+ F.
Type 366 Spitfire XII .....................1I+ M.
Type 367 Spitfire VIII ....................1I+ F.
Type 367 Spitfire XIII ....................1I+ F.
Type 369 Spitfire XIV ....................1I+ M.
Type 370 Spitfire XI ......................1I+ F.
Type 371 Spiteful .........................1I+ M.
Type 372 Spitfire XXIII ..................1I+ M.
Type 373 Spitfire XIV ....................1I+ M.
Type 374 Spitfire XI ......................1I+ F.
Type 375 Seafire II .......................1I+ M.
Type 377 Seafire XV ......................1I+ M.
Type 379 Spitfire XIV .....................1I+ M.
Type 380 Dumbo ...........................1I– B.T.
Type 381 Seagull ..........................1IA+ O.P.R.
Type 382 Seafang .........................1I+ M.
Type 385 Spitfire IX .......................1IW M.
Type 386 Seafire XVII ....................1I+ M.
Type 387 Spitfire X ........................1I+ F.
Type 388 Seafire XLV .....................1I+ M.
Type 389 Spitfire XIX .....................1I+ F.
Type 390 Spitfire XIX .....................1I+ M.
Type 391 ....................................1I+ M.
Type 392 Jet Spiteful > Attacker ......1I+ o.M.
Type 393 Spiteful XIV .....................1I+ M.
Type 394 Spitfire XVIII ...................1I+ F.M.
Type 395 Seafire XVIII ...................1I+ F.M.
Type 396 Seafang .........................1I+ M.
Type 398 Attacker ........................1I+ o.M.
Type 502 Spitfire ..........................1I+ M2.Tn.
Type 508 ....................................2I+ o.M.X.
Type 509 Spitfire ..........................1I+ M2.Tn.
Type 510 ....................................1I+ o.M.
Type 511 ....................................2I+ o.n.M.
N.1 Baby ........................1IIL M.R.
Nanok ............................3IIL R.T.
P.B. Push Prodge ..............1II– M.R.
Sea King .........................1IIA+ M.
Sea Lion .........................1IIL Wa.
Solent ............................3IIL R.
Swan .............................2IIL R.

The list comprises the aircraft only till 1950.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

185 Southampton X for R6/26
231 bomber/transport for C26/31
232 seapane for R2/33
235 Southampton IV/Jumo for R28/33
307 Walrus for 2/35
308 & 310 flying boat for R12/35
319 turret fighter,developed from F11/37
333 fighter for N9/39
334 turret fighter for S6/39
347 Seagull S12/40
378 spitfire F.IX
505 jet fighter
523 & 526 interceptor F3/48
524 flying boat R2/48

 

[Boogey]

Thanx a lot for addition of Your types ; very interesting
Now I'm to look for and verify the airplane types, as I want to know more about them,
specially of those unknown.
I'm terrible unhappy for the link http://www.jaapteeuwen.com/ww2aircraft/index.htm is broken.

Two of my favourite beers for hesham :

 

[AM]

hi,

type 500 - Proposal variant of type 392 (1946)
type 515 - Attacker F Mk.2 project (1947)
type 516 - Attacker proposal variant (1947)
type 519 - Attacker fitted with jet deflection (1948-49)
type 520 - Projected conversion of second type 510 (1948-49)
type 527 - Proposed Attacker variant with Avon or Tay engine (1949)
type 531 - Proposed modifications to types 510 and 528 (1950)
type 532 - Type 532 proposed with Ghost engine (1950)
type 537 - Strike conversion of type 525 (1950) for NR/A.19
type 542 - Attacker variant with floats (1951)
type 546 - Swift F Mk.4
type 548 - Navalized Swift (1952) for NR/A.34
type 549 - Swift FR Mk.5
type 550 - Swift PR Mk.5
type 522 - Swift F Mk.7
type 553 - Supersonic fighter (1953) for ER.134T
type 555 - Third Scimitar prototype with form of lift augmentation (1953)
type 556 - All-weather fighter Scimitar (1954) for N.139P

 

[AM]

type 558 - Scimitar Mk.2 proposal (1955)
type 559 - High altitude supersonic fighter (1955) for F.155T
type 560 - De-navalised Scimitar (1956)
type 561 - Scimitar low-level nuclear bomber development (1956)
type 562 - Interceptor and strike development of Scimitar (1956-57)
type 563 - De-navalised type 544 for Swiss AF (1958)
type 564 - Revision of type 562 as naval strike a/c (1956-57)
type 565 - Scimitar tactical bomber development for RAF (1956) for GOR.339
type 566 - Scimitar strike variant for Navy (1957)
type 567 - Scimitar single and two-seat strike aircraft for Navy (1957)
type 569 - Guided powered bomb for carriage by V-bombers (1957)
type 571 - Low-level strike a/c. Submission for TSR.2 requirement (1957)
type 572 - Denasalized tactical reconnaissance Scimitar for RAF (1958)
type 574 - Scimitar project (1958)
type 576 - Supersonic Scimitar fighter to replace Sea Vixen (1958)
type 577 - Supersonic strike a/c (1959-60)
type 579 - Number allocated to English Electric-built TSR.2s

 

[AM]

type 581 - VG strike aircraft (1959-60) for OR.346 & ER.206/4
type 582 - Twin fuselage strike aircraft (1960) for OR.346
type 583 - VG naval strike fighter (1962) for OR.346 & AW.406
type 584 - VSTOL strike a/c (1961) for OR.346 & NBMR.3
type 585 - Begun as naval derivative of type 584 or Became single-engined close support a/c (1961)
type 586 - Mach 2 VG airliner
type 587 - Mach 2 VG airliner
type 588 - VG research a/c (1961)
type 589 - VG research a/c, all-new airframe, demilitarized type 590 (1962) for OR.346
type 590 - Strike a/c. was production version of type 589 (1962) for OR.346
type 591 - High Mach number development of type 589 (1962) for OR.355
type 593 - Small experimental VG a/c (1964)
type 594 - allocated to Preston TSR.2 production (???)

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Type 573 delta wing experimental aircraft for ER.197D Spec.
Type 592 bomber ? (not sure).
Type 599 advanced fighter project.

 

[Stargazer]

This is just AMAZING. Wow! Filling so many blanks today.

Allow me to list here the Supermarine types that are still missing in my list (perhaps some of you have them?):

- 301, 303, 306, 321, 326, 339, 354, 363, 364, 376, 383, 384, 397, 399
- 501, 503, 504, 507, 512, 514, 518, 530, 533, 534, 536, 539, 540, 547, 551, 552, 554, 557, 568, 575, 578, 580, 595, 596, 597, 598

Types that I haven't got the Model number for:

- Spitfire XX (20) for F.4/41 (OR.105)
- Spitfire PR.VII for 15/40/HE (OR.92)
- naval carrier-borne attack/strike (reconnaissance) aircraft design for S.11/43 (OR.146)

Thanks a lot in advance if you can help!

 

[robunos]

From Putnam's 'Supermarine' :-

301 [Vickers] Vildebeest development/floats for Vincent?? design november 1934

303 Scapa development 2x RR F12 design december 1934

306 Atlantic Mail Boat 4x Vulture design september 1935

321 Sepermarine Mk IV Gun Turret design september 1937

326 Walrus Development Pegasus VI design June 1938 Cabin Top 2nd Exp. aircraft

339 NAD 925/39 project. single seat FAA fighter design december 1939

364 Spitfire [tropical] Griffon 61 design May 1942

383 Spiteful Merlin 61 design November 1943

384 SeafireF.XVII Griffon 6 design november 1943, prototype and production

397 Attacker Nene folding wings for foreign sales

399 Sea Otter ASR. II Mercury 30

501 Spitfire Experimental powerplant development

503 Sea Otter Mercury 30 3 converted. G-AIDM civil

504 S.14/44 ASR Griffon civil project

507 Walrus Ii Pegasus VI for Amsterdam

512 alloted to Technical Office

518 not listed

530 Seagull ASR.1 Griffon 57 production version. none built

533 34mm Vickers cannon recoilless gun

534 Design only - no drawings

536 not listed

539 N.9/47 2x Avon trainer and variants designs

540 not listed

547a Swift two-seater[F.1] Avon R.A.7 with nose extended for radar and 2 or 430mm Aden guns as trainer

547b Swift two-seater[F.4] Avon R.A.7 night fighter project as above

551 Swift F.2 Avon 105 WK199 only

552 Swift F.7 Avon 116 prototype XF774 with Blue Sky [Fireflash]

554 OR 318 Avon R.A.14 advanced jet trainer of Type 545

557 no details given

568 not listed

575 not listed

The list stops at 576.

Spitfire XX (20) for F.4/41 (OR.105)

According to the Putnam book, only one Mk 20 was built, the production versions being Mk 21s, under Type 356. [page 226]

Spitfire PR.VII for 15/40/HE (OR.92)

According to page 240, PR.VIIs were converted from MkVs along with PR.IVs, so the number would logically be either 349, the Mk.V number, or 353, the P.R. IV number.

naval carrier-borne attack/strike (reconnaissance) aircraft design for S.11/43 (OR.146)

According to BSP3, page 236, Supermarine didn't tender to this specification. The contenders were Armstrong Whitworth, Blackburn, Fairey, Shorts, and Westland.
The Shorts design became the Sturgeon.


cheers,
Robin.

 

[Stargazer]

Wonderful, Robunos! It really does help to have the right books in one's collection, doesn't it?

Just realized I'd left out five more missing designations in my Supermarine spreadsheet... added them in the list at the top of the page. Thanks again!

 

[Jos Heyman]

I have type 518 associated with Spitfire XVIIIT. None were converted.

 

[AM]

hi all,

from "British Secret Projects. Fighters & Bombers. 1935-50":

354 - Spitfire development, design 9.41
363 - Tropical Spitfire design, 5.42
376 - Spitfire Mk.VIII with contra-rotating propeller, 2.43

 

[pathology_doc]

While we're on the topic of Spitfires, would it be too out of place to discuss mark numbers?

Marks I to 24 are all well accounted for.

Spitefuls of course take off at F.14, as the prototype split off from the Spit of that Mark.

Seafangs get a low-thirties Mark and then the final Griffon Seafires get 45-47.

So there are still lots of mark numbers in the mid-high 20s to low 30s, and then mid 30s to mid 40s unused (or possibly F.25 to F.44 unused if you accept that the Seafang is not going to share mark numbers).

Does anyone know what (if anything) specific these were reserved for? Or is this just a product of the confused mark numbering that saw multiple different engine fits to the V and IX not change mark numbers at all, but a change to a US engine result in a new mark number?

 

[Maveric]

Type 527 "Attacker Mk.2" from 1950 (Source: Aeroplane Monthly)

 

[Grey Havoc]

Just wondering, should the modern Supermarine Aircraft be considered a true successor company?

Supermarine is the proper, authentic manufacturer's name for the Spitfire, the British company which employed the man who designed it in 1931, RJ Mitchell, a revered figure among aficionados (he died of cancer in 1937, a year before the Spitfire entered service). There are several other small companies making Spitfires, most of which are really wood-and-canvas light aircraft that look like Spitfires, but only O'Sullivan has the name, and only his Spitfires are made, just like the original fighters, entirely of aluminium.

So how did the hallowed name of Supermarine, the old Southampton-based aviation company (half of all Spitfires were built in West Bromwich after the Southampton factories were flattened by the Luftwaffe), end up on a tin hangar in Texas? O'Sullivan did not buy the name Supermarine: he was granted it by the descendants of the owners of the old West Midlands aircraft works, out of business since the early 1950s, in a kind of blessing.

He had been building his Spitfires in Australia for 14 years when he was approached in 2008 by a commercial attaché from the US Embassy in Canberra scouting for businesses that might be tempted by grants and tax breaks to relocate to parts of America where boom had turned to bust, and thus provide an infusion of capital and opportunities for work. O'Sullivan saw an opportunity to move closer to his growing market.

'Of course, I would really love to be building these in England,' he says. He has sold more than 30 in Britain and there are more on order. 'But sad to say, there is a regulation against absolutely everything in Britain, and I could never get one built.' He tells a story of visiting a customer in England and having to wait four days for an aviation inspector to arrive and complete paperwork, inspect licences and so on, before he could remove the propeller on a Spitfire he had designed, made and sold. 'Sad,' he says.

The Mk26b, O'Sullivan's designation for his latest design, continued the mark numbers used by the original Supermarine factory, with each modification earning a new number (the last of the originals being Mark 21). It is not cheap, and demands time and work. It comes as a kit, mainly to get around those dense thickets of regulations. So you pay $175,000 for the airframe, disassembled into perfectly fitting pieces, and about another $50,000 for the engine, either a General Motors V8 or a Honda V6 – the only unapologetically modern component in the kit. The rest, down to the dummy machine guns, is as close to the original as possible. (In 1939, a Spitfire cost £12,604.)

Then it takes an estimated 1,200 hours to put it all together. It is also possible to buy one 'used', ready to fly. O'Sullivan has one in the hangar, in full RAF battledress, which he built for himself in Australia and has promised to a customer. It works out at roughly the same as buying a more utilitarian light aircraft, say a single-engined Cessna or Piper. Unlike the original Spitfire, you get two seats, the second squeezed behind the pilot, because even the most diehard re-enactor is going to want to take a passenger for a ride. The Mk26b, 7.24m long with a wingspan of 8.43m, is actually 90 per cent the size of the original, a technical distinction for the most part. In engineering terms, there is an exponential formula which means that an extra 10 per cent in weight and drag would demand double the horsepower, and that would necessitate a more expensive, less reliable 'hot rod' engine.

Daily Telegraph

 

[pathology_doc]

One can argue that the remains of the 'true' Supermarine lie absorbed in British Aerospace somewhere, but surely this is the spiritual successor. He really does seem to be doing his utmost to honour the Spitfire legacy, and if he could run his business in the UK without ten tons of paper descending on his desk every time he picks up a rivet gun, he probably would.


Of course the article you quote is somewhat flawed, because it states the last official Mark was the 21 - whereas even Wikipedia will (correctly) tell you otherwise.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Of course the article you quote is somewhat flawed, because it states the last official Mark was the 21 - whereas even Wikipedia will (correctly) tell you otherwise.

I was wondering how fast someone would spot that.

 

[Stargazer]

Elements in favor:

• The legitimate heirs gave him the name and their blessing
• The construction technique is really faithful to the originals
• The Mark numbers follow on from the original system

Elements against:

• The aircraft is 90% the size of the original.

I don't care about the extra passenger seat or the Honda engine. O'Sullivan does not claim the aircraft are existing versions, he created new Mark numbers for them. Had the production continued after the war, new types of engines and seating arrangements might have been found anyway. To me it's the last point is what really hurts. Being 90% smaller means the new Spitfire could NOT have been produced on the same lines as the original ones.

 

[robunos]

Another error in the article :-

half of all Spitfires were built in West Bromwich

That should read Castle Bromwich, in North Birmingham. What was the Spitfire factory is now the Jaguar car plant. They never made aeroplanes in West Bromwich, a separate town to the west of Birmingham, but they did used to make Jensen cars there...


Can we call these aircraft a 'Supermarine Spitfire'? Sorry.but no...
Only 90% full size, and no Rolls-Royce engine. Also, I would assume that, as mentioned above, BAE Systems still own the rights to the name 'Supermarine'. Regarding the statement
"he was granted it [the name Supermarine] by the descendants of the owners of the old West Midlands aircraft works, out of business since the early 1950s",
according to Putnam's 'Supermarine', page 9,
"...while Spitfire production was building up and an aircraft shadow factory was under construction at Castle Bromwich for Lord Nuffield (but eventually taken over by Vickers..."
Lord Nuffield was the Minister for Aircraft Production, so basically this was a Government owned factory, which was transferred to Vickers, who via BAC and BAe, became BAE Systems. After the war, it became Pressed Steel Fisher, producing car bodies for BMC/British Leyland/ BL/ Rover Group. So I don't think the postwar owners had the rights to transfer the Supermarine name to anyone.
A final thought, they also built Avro Lancasters at Castle Bromwich, does this mean the Avro name has also been transferred?


cheers,
Robin.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


220 was S.5
247 was S.6
248 was S.6A
174/175 was Swan.


http://www.vignaud.org/Gestion_BD/Recherche.php

 

[Stargazer]

PLEASE do not assert things like that. The things you write appear in Google results within hours and may mislead other researchers. Take the time to cross-reference and compare your finds, submit the conflicting results to the community and let us all decide together whether your finds are legit.

220 was S.5

NO. The Type 220 was the Viastra VIII, which consisted of former Types 160 Viastra I and 199 Viastra III converted with three Jupiter VIFM engines.

247 was S.6

UNLIKELY. I do not have any description for the Type 247, but the S.6 came out in 1929 while the Types 246 and 248 were 1931 types.

248 was S.6A

NO. The Type 248 was a variant of the Victoria V, which consisted of aircraft K2340 and K2808 modified with two Pegasus IM3 engines.

174/175 was Swan.

NO. The Type 174 was the Vellore V while the Type 175 was the Vellore VI, two projected variants with two Jupiter IX engines.
Do you realise that the Swan was a 1924 type? It came out five years before the allocation of these numbers! I do not rule out the possibility that Vickers-Supermarine may have reallocated new type numbers to old Supermarine aircraft (if only for record purposes) but there wouldn't be such a huge gap). Remember that the Types 178, 180 to 184, 186 to 189 (all from circa 1927) are still unknown and they are the most likely candidates for such redesignations.

 

[hesham]

Stargazer,


you must to know that,the Supermarine company has its own designation numbers until
it was absorbed by Vickers in 1928, so those designations are not belong to Vickers,
they are for Supermarine and before 1928.

 

[Arjen]

I have to side with Stéphane here. The Putnam-Supermarine doesn't mention any designation numbers in the Vickers sequence for the S.4, S.5, S.6, S.6A and S.6B. The book contains a lengthy list of Supermarine type numbers in the Vickers sequence, no mention is made of types 174 / 175 / 220 / 247 / 248. The S.-racers are mentioned in another, older, list - without Vickers-style numbers.

The Putnam-Vickers assigns the following types to most of the numbers you mentioned:
- 174: Vickers Vellore V - project
- 175: Vickers Vellore VI - project
- 220: Vickers Viastra VIII - G-AAUB conversion with 3 x Jupiter VIFM
- 247: not mentioned in the Putnam-Vickers
- 248: Vickers Victoria V - 2 x Pegasus IM3, K2340 and K2808

In the Putnam-Supermarine, the Vickers-sequence type numbers start with number 178. The type sequence in the Putnam-Vickers contains many gaps, but from number 178 onwards, most of these are filled with the Supermarine types that received Vickers-type designation numbers.

Most of this tallies with Stéphane's story the data supplied by Stéphane.

Some Vickers-type numbers from the Putnam-Supermarine:
- 178: miscellaneous drawings - design February 1929
- 179: monoplane flying-boat, 6 x R-R Buzzard - design August 1929, G-ABLE partly built
- 180: civil, 4 engines - design October 1929
- 181: general purpose amphibian, Pegasus - design February 1930
- 182: general purpose high-wing monoplane - design October 1930, for Canada
- 183: general purpose low-wing monoplane - design December 1930, for Canada
- 184: Southampton II, 2 x R-R FXII
- 185: Southampton X, 3 x Jupiter XFBM - design February 1931
- 186: S.6A 1929 type floats modified for use on 1931 aircraft - design February 1931
- 187: S.6B 1931 type floats redesigned - design February 1931
- 188: Southampton X, 3 x Jupiter XIF - design February 1931
- 189: Southampton I, 2 x Jupiter XIF - design March 1931

I haven't checked how these numbers tally with the earlier posts in this thead; I have no other sources against which I can check these numbers. On the whole, I have found the various Putnam books to be fairly reliable.

 

[Stargazer]

Stargazer,


you must to know that,the Supermarine company has its own designation numbers until
it was absorbed by Vickers in 1928, so those designations are not belong to Vickers,
they are for Supermarine and before 1928.

Of course I know this! BUT... even if we leave out the 1926-27 types such as the Nanok, Solent, Sheldrake and S.5, a few Supermarine aircraft and projects were developed AFTER the merge without any three-digit designation known to be assigned to them:

• The Air Yacht, a one-off 1931 luxury flying boat based on three-engined reconnaissance flying boat for the Royal Air Force; to Spec. R.4/27 [G-AASE]
• The Seagull "IV" of 1928, one Seagull II rebuilt and fitted with Handley-Page leading edge slots and twin fin and rudders
• The S.6 seaplane racer of 1929, developed to Spec. 8/28
• A mail-carrying aircraft proposal to Spec. 21/28
• A torpedo-bomber project to Spec. M.1/30E (which superseded M.5/28)
• The S.6B seaplane racer of 1931.

Surely these must have received some of the missing numbers mentioned further up.

 

[Stargazer]

Most of this tallies with Stéphane's story.

!!!! ???
That's certainly not MY story! :
It's the result of my previous research from many printed and online sources...

Some Vickers-type numbers from the Putnam-Supermarine

Ha! This is one Putnam book I'm dying to get my hands on... Glad you can share some of the great info in there!

 

[Arjen]

Most of this tallies with Stéphane's story.

!!!! ???
That's certainly not MY story! :
It's the result of my previous research from many printed and online sources...

Fixed that.

 

[Stargazer]

Fixed that.

No worries... I just wanted to make sure that people wouldn't think it all came from my imagination!

Thank you so very much for the string of missing Supermarine designations you provided from that much sought-after Putnam book.

Allow me to share with you a list of the designations (either Supermarine of Vickers) that are still missing. Whenever you find the time it would be cool to look them up for us... Last known Supermarine designation was 599 but even if Supermarine no longer received any proper number batches I guess there might have been a few more disseminated projects among the higher numbers (at least for until the name still existed).

SUPERMARINE

• 222, 226, 229, 233, 234, 240 (not sure if latter was Vickers or Supermarine)
• 301 (given as a Vildebeest development, possibly a mistake), 354, 363
• 514, 533 (same numbers as a Vickers cannon, probably different),
  536, 540, 557, 568, 575, 578, 580, 595, 596, 597, 598

VICKERS

• 197
• 201, 211, 243, 247, 254, 265, 275
• 404, 425, 444, 475
• 612, 617, 622, 625, 642, 646, 655
• 713, 714, 717, 721, 726, 728, 729, 731, 738, 740, 741, 746, 750, 751, 752, 753,
  762, 766, 767, 774, 775, 777, 778, 783, 787, 788, 791, 792, 795, 796
• 809, 811, 817, 819, 820, 822, 824, 826, 829, 830, 834, 841, 842

 

[Arjen]

• 301 (given as a Vildebeest development, possibly a mistake)

Robunos already provided a decription for number 301:

From Putnam's 'Supermarine' :-

301 [Vickers] Vildebeest development/floats for Vincent?? design november 1934
[...]

I've had a look at the Vickers types. The Vildebeest had a seaplane version. The Vincent was a Vildebeest development. The type 301 entry in the Putnam describes it this way:

Vildebeest Development
floats for Vincent

My reading is that Supermarine Type 301 is a design for Vildebeest floats, adapted for the Vincent.
One type number down. A few dozen to go, I'll get to them later.

 

[Arjen]

From Putnam-Supermarine.
- 222: Floats for Vickers Vildebeest - design November 1931
- 226: Southampton IV, 2 x Pegasus - design April 1932
- 229: Southampton IV, 2 x Kestrel III - design June 1932, with S.S. spars (?)
- 233: Southampton II, 2 x Hispano-Suiza 12 Nbr - design December 1932, Turkey-bomb installation
- 234: Southampton II, 2 x Hispano-Suiza 12 Nbr - design December 1932, Turkey-torpedo installation
- 240: Coastal landplane - design May 1934
- 514: E.10/44 Mod, Nene 2, project
- 533: 34 mm Vickers cannon, recoil-less gun - design-only, no drawings
- 536: not listed
- 540: not listed
- 557: listed, but no description
- 568: not listed
- 575: Scimitar, 2 x Avon, for RCAF
- 578, 580, 595, 596, 597, 598: not listed

Vickers numbers in the appropriate thread - as soon as I get around to it.

 

[hesham]

Great find my dear Arjen,


know in 300 series,we are still missing; 302,315,320,352,360,373,374,382 and 390.

 

[Schneiderman]

302 - 4 Engined flying boat for Imperial Airways
315 - Walrus for Argentina
320 - possibly a version of Stranraer

Heshams numbers for the S5, 6, 6A and Swan are the 'N' registration numbers, not type numbers

 

[hesham]

Thank you Schneiderman very much.