Supermarine Pre-224 Supermarine Fighter Project - Information Needed

[royabulgaf]

Help- I am looking on a pre-224 Supermarine fighter project. I stumbled across it on line one time, and never found it again. Apparently Reginald Mitchell presented a paper on future fighter aircraft in 1927 ir 1928, describing something similar to a 224. There was a 3 view drawing included in the article. I never found the article again. Does this sound familiar to anyone?

 

[lark]

"Spitfire , The history" by Morgan and Shaklady offers also
a few pre-224 designs but that is not an article ofcourse..

 

[royabulgaf]

Well, there's a start. Thanks. It would still be great if my description clicks with someone. Remember, this wasn't a Supermarine or Mitchell design as such, but a notional 1920s fighter of the future.

 

[Schneiderman]

Are you sure your memory isn't playing tricks here, was it actually Mitchell or some other designer? There is no mention of such a paper/presentation in Flight, Aeroplane or any of the national papers in these years. Mitchell did present a paper on the design of the S5 racer at the RAeS following the 1927 Schneider Trophy win, but that makes no mention of fighters. I rather doubt the website you remember quoted from Mitchell, he was a very down-to-earth guy who rarely made presentations and was not prone to future speculation.

 

[royabulgaf]

Could very well be so. Like I said, I stumbled across it once, and could never find it again. I used what I thought were logical search words, but never found anything. The interesting thing about Supermarine fighters is there was sort of a mix and match progress from the S6/224 through the Spitfire, Spiteful, Attacker, Swift, 545 and the mach 2 553. This could be the earliest ancestor. I was pretty sure it was Mitchell though, because it sure looked like a 224.

 

[Schneiderman]

Mitchell did carry out some conceptual design work on fighters in 1927 but they were all conventional biplanes. His next attempt was in 1930 with early work that led to the Type 224, as detailed in Morgan and Shacklady apart from the biplane option. There is no obvious evidence that he worked on any innovative fighter designs in his early Schneider years.
You are correct that there is a continuous connection from the Spitfire prototype through to the Swift Mk7 with each successive aircraft containing significant parts from its predecessor.

 

[Justo Miranda]

Hi

 

[Schneiderman]

Yes, three models evaluated in the Vickers wind tunnel in 1930. Original source; Morgan and Shaklady

 

[royabulgaf]

You got it, Justo. It sure looks like drawing number three. Now I'm going to do what I should of at first, and copy it.

 

[Schneiderman]

Wind tunnel model no.3 was developed as Type 17810 and 14 before minor revisions and redesignation as Type 224. It dates from 1931-32

 

[sienar]

I believe I recently ran across a book that showed some initial monoplane fighter concepts by Mitchell.

I'll try and go through things and see if I can find it. But this does ring a bell with me.

 

[lark]

Royab...

Is it posible that the article your looking for is :
"The other Spitfire" by the late Ian Huntley- Scale Aircraft Modeler January 1990..?

It shows several designs worked out by R.Mitchell in coöperation with Fairey
and powered by Fairey designed engines..

 

[royabulgaf]

I'll have to check that one out. I have that SAM issue. Thanks

 

[Schneiderman]

Treat with EXTREME caution as the article is full of chronological, historical and technical inaccuracies. So without proper references to allow the illustrations to be validated I am highly sceptical indeed. The material is not mentioned in any other book or article on Fairey or Supermarine as far as I am aware. However the 'projects' have been discussed here.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9997.15.html

 

[royabulgaf]

My god, it was in front of me all the time! This is truly it!!!

 

[Schneiderman]

But do heed my warning, the article is so riddled with clear and obvious errors that the whole basis has to be questioned. The underlying story can be shown to be totally wrong, by checking against a variety of official material. You cannot prove a negative but the evidence against any of this being true is compelling.

 

[lark]

I compared the text in the article with the contents in the Supermarine
and Fairey Putnams also...

My only goal was to direct Royalb.. to the article he was looking for.
Nothing more, nothing less..

 

[Schneiderman]

Yes indeed, no intended criticism of you pointing him to the article.
I just want anyone who reads it to be fully aware that it looks highly dubious, not least because there is no reference to the 'projects' in either Putnam or the two definitive books on the Spitfire, which were written with input from senior members of the Supermarine design team working through the 1920s; Clifton, Mansbridge, Shirval, Davis and Dickson.