Supermarine 322

[cluttonfred]

I have liked the look of the Supermarine 322 "Dumbo" since seeing it in Tony Buttler's book and elsewhere. I am also tickled by the fact that the clean, fixed-gear design meant that it faster than the retractable-gear Fairey Barracuda with the same engine.

I have often wondered, though, at what an operational version was planned to look like had it been accepted. The two prototypes built were partially of wood and seemed more like testbeds for the variable incidence wing, not actual prototype combat aircraft. Does anyone have any artists impressions, cutaways or other images that show what Dumbo might have looked like in fighting trim?

 

[cluttonfred]

No luck...? Does anyone have any leads on more info on the Supermarine 322?

 

[Justo Miranda]

From "Aircraft of the fighting powers" vol.VII (1946)
by Owen Thetford
Argus Books Ltd.

 

[Jemiba]

Thank you, Justo, that's the best drawing of this type, I've seen so far !

"..what an operational version was planned to look like.."
I would think, not very different to the prototype. In those times, there weren't
many "concept demonstrators", I think, just prototypes of service aircraft. Main
question then would be the rear armament, the position is already visible on the
drawing, just above the roundel. My guess is a tilting canopy, similar to that in
the Barracuda. Just a guess, of course, without any supporting sources !

 

[Justo Miranda]

I agree ,tilting canopy...

 

[Jemiba]

Well, I've experimented with a contemporary turret, like the Bristol BX, too,
but it seems to bulky to me and vastly increasing drag in cruise flight, as it
wasn't retractable ...

 

[cluttonfred]

Thanks all for the info and imagination. I agree that the the hatch-like solution was likely, and you can see the glassless outline on the prototypes.

By the way does anyone have any info or images on the variable incidence wing mechanism which was Dumbo's reason for being?

Cheers,

Matthew

 

[lark]

Matthew,

for some interior details please go to:
flightglobal.com
choose :Flight April 25th 1946 - page 409.

Succes.

 

[Apophenia]

Matthew,

According to BSP, the operational Supermarine 322 (to S.34/27) was to be fitted with either the R-R Exe or the Bristol Taurus. The top-view drawing shows increased taper on the outer wing panels, spats on the fixed main gear and what appears to be a flush-fitting, louvred covering over the rear position.

I'm speculating that the operational 'Dumbo' would have looked something like the attached.

 

[T-50]

What a ugly crate is this!! it hardly to believe that this thing is from the same company as the spitfire.
it is unworthy to bear the name supermarine
T-50

 

[cluttonfred]

Ugly is as ugly does...it does have pretty tailfeathers, and next to a Fairey Barracuda anything looks good.

Thanks all for the efforts...I have learned a lot.

Cheers,

Matthew

 

[joncarrfarrelly]

What a ugly crate is this!! it hardly to believe that this thing is from the same company as the spitfire.
it is unworthy to bear the name supermarine
T-50

You've evidently not seen many Supermarine aircraft.

 

[Boogey]

All the pictures and photos placed here are of Supermarine Type 380 Dumbo, the second prototype.
The first prototype, Supermarine Type 322 Dumbo, had smaller rounded tail
and differed also in exhaust pipes shape.

 

[Vahe Demirjian]

Who came up with the name Dumbo for the Supermarine 322, given that Dumbo is also the name of the big-eared elephant from a 1941 Disney film of the same name and the Northrop XP-56 had "Dumbo" as one of its nicknames?

 

[cluttonfred]

Who came up with the name Dumbo for the Supermarine 322, given that Dumbo is also the name of the big-eared elephant from a 1941 Disney film of the same name and the Northrop XP-56 had "Dumbo" as one of its nicknames?

I suspect that the high shoulder wing just behind the cockpit reminded someone of Dumbo the cartoon elephant flying with his ears outstretched.

 

[sienar]

Highwing, fixed gear, cockpit ahead of the leading edge....

 

[dan_inbox]

All the pictures and photos placed here are of Supermarine Type 380 Dumbo, the second prototype.
The first prototype, Supermarine Type 322 Dumbo, had smaller rounded tail
and differed also in exhaust pipes shape.

Apparently, the second prototype of the Supermarine Dumbo (R1815) was also a Type 322, like the 1st proto R1810.

Type 380 seems to be a Spitfire variant? On

https://flic.kr/p/9ZU3vW

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robbber1/5906048704/
:
"The Spitfire in the Museum of Flight (Scotland) is a Vickers Supermarine Type 380 Spitfire LF.XVIe. It had an American Packard-built Merlin engine, a "bubble" canopy and clipped wings."

Can someone clarify either way?

 

[Apophenia]

...Type 380 seems to be a Spitfire variant?...
"The Spitfire in the Museum of Flight (Scotland) is a Vickers Supermarine Type 380 Spitfire LF.XVIe. It had an American Packard-built Merlin engine, a "bubble" canopy and clipped wings."
...

According to Schneiderman, the Type 380 was a Type 322 'Dumbo' development to S.24/37. The Spitfire LF.XVIe would have come under Type 361 (as did the Spitfire IX).

-- https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/supermarine-type-designations.1541/page-2#post-300773

 

[riggerrob]

Supermarine later used that variable-incidence wing on the post-war Seagull amphibian. Seagull had a Griffon engine, counter-rotating propellers, tilting wings, folding wings, retractable landing gear and as many moving parts as a helicopter. It was soon replaced by helicopters for ship-to-ship missions.