Soviet laser weapons projects

Michel Van

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during 1980s the Red Army look in new weaponsystem to beat NATO at war

1k17 Tank is one of those system
with a 66-pound synthetic ruby rods Laser, it was not cut true US tanks
but blind pilots and dazzling optical and electronic mechanisms of enemy weapons systems
even in bad weather condition

The First prototype was ready in 1990 and mass production was consider for 1992
sadly in 1991 the Soviet union implode...

source:
http://gizmodo.com/5715192/the-secret-soviet-laser-tank
more Picture
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2010/12/18/unveiling-top-secret-military-technologies/
even more Picture
http://otvaga2004.narod.ru/publ_w7_2010/0033_laser.htm
 

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The concept seems a bit flawed. You build a big expensive laser system, so you can just blind vehicle operators. I get the tactical value, but is it worth the expense?
 
It *destroys* optical systems per se. Operators' eyes are just collateral damage. Now imagine this in first rows of Soviet tank wave going to La Manche, destroying optics at NATO tanks, Apaches etc.
 
Yildirim said:
The concept seems a bit flawed. You build a big expensive laser system, so you can just blind vehicle operators. I get the tactical value, but is it worth the expense?

you sit in a Apaches attack helicopter try to shoot Soviet tanks at La Manche
your the Optical target system goes blind and cockpit windows get opaque
you can't see and Apaches fly low over ground full of Trees, Building and power lines
and Hovering then your are siting duck for soviets...
 
flateric said:
It *destroys* optical systems per se. Operators' eyes are just collateral damage. Now imagine this in first rows of Soviet tank wave going to La Manche, destroying optics at NATO tanks, Apaches etc.

I read about a system back in the 80s that the US Army had been playing with similar to this. Accidentally *exploded* one guy's eyeballs. IIRC I read about it in Military Technology.
 
Weren't US developments to create a similar system halted by some sort of law regulating the use of blinding weaponry? IIRC the system was to be mounted on the Bradley chassis and the program's name was Roadrunner or something like that. I'm surprised the Soviets were able to avoid political issues with this, I would have figured such a vehicle would be a target in the CFE treaties or something.
 
Wasn't the American equivalent this:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/stingray.htm
 
With the laser energy reductor it has the potential to be the coolest piece of equipment for the techno party ever! :D
 

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in army -
111111ae.jpg
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbfaADhkvq8


Astrophysica Sanguine (helicopter EOTS blinder), explosive-pump lasers, Terra-3, LE-1 laser rangefinder (yes, that one that tracked Challenger back in 1984) - orifice of 196 laser beams combined in 70 meter optical path
 
flateric said:
Astrophysica Sanguine (helicopter EOTS blinder), explosive-pump lasers, Terra-3, LE-1 laser rangefinder (yes, that one that tracked Challenger back in 1984) - orifice of 196 laser beams combined in 70 meter optical path
Very interesting, thanks!
 
Stranger_NN said:
System for the destruction of opto-electronic means of aircraft "Sanguine"




Thanks Stranger_NN
I have always been amazed and envious of the Soviet military's ability and acceptance to adopt an existing system / platform - in this case the venrable ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" as the basis for the 'Sanguine' system - Supporting the notion of KISS

My friend I do not read Russian :( Could you tell me as to what come of this program?

Regards
Pioneer
 
some fantastic recently declassified rare footage included like Terra 3 guts and Omega project stuff


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4S-ivqEldw
 
I recall reading somewhere that blinding/dazzling laser weapons for shipboard use were supplied by the US to the UK in preparation for the Falklands conflict. I don't think that this, or the existence of such US weapons, has ever been officially acknowledged - probably due to their questionable legality.
 
taildragger said:
I recall reading somewhere that blinding/dazzling laser weapons for shipboard use were supplied by the US to the UK in preparation for the Falklands conflict. I don't think that this, or the existence of such US weapons, has ever been officially acknowledged - probably due to their questionable legality.
Outfit DEC - the Laser Dazzle Sight - was indeed carried, although I believe it was homegrown rather than imported (although that's not to say the US doesn't have them) and it has been officially adknowledged that the system existed. It's now been withdrawn.
 
taildragger said:
I recall reading somewhere that blinding/dazzling laser weapons for shipboard use were supplied by the US to the UK in preparation for the Falklands conflict. I don't think that this, or the existence of such US weapons, has ever been officially acknowledged - probably due to their questionable legality.

Blinding weapons were banned in 1995, but the US does use large number of dazzling lasers or 'optical distractors' in Afghanistan and elsewhere. There are larger ones for shipboard use too, but unlike Equipment DEC (which was from Marconi IIRC) these are for use against small boats rather than aircraft per se.
 
Weapons which were designed to cause permanent blindness to the naked eye are banned by the Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons added as part of the 1980 Geneva Convention. Weapons which temporarily blind are perfectly legal, and widely used. It’s also legal to have lasers which might cause permanent blindness to someone looking through an image intensification device like binoculars or a gun sight, as this is true of many laser rangefinders and target designators. All and all the 'ban' is really just a play nice rule, and not any serious restriction on useful weapons.
 
The other side's experiments with a similar idea, starting with the 1K17 Szhatie (Сжатие — "Compression") self-propelled laser platform. The chassis of a 2S19 Msta SPG (so in other words, a modified T-80 with the engine of a T-72) fitted with a 12-tube solid-state laser array using about 65lbs of synthetic ruby lenses and pulsed xenon flashbulbs (other sources claim they were YAG lenses). Info is scarce, but it's known that the 1K17 was more of an electronic warfare system than a directed energy weapon, its lasers would have been used to burn out electro-optical systems on enemy vehicles rather than destroying them outright.
PVthNRV.jpg Self-propelled_laser_system_1K17_Szhatie.jpg

Onto something a bit weirder even, the 1K11 Stilet (Stiletto). Built off the SU-100P platform - more particularly the GMZ minelayer version if my brief research is correct, it only featured a single laser but functioned in much the same way as the 1K17. Not sure of any details on the laser, but it was again designed for use against optical systems and seekers. Allegedly it did this by hitting potential targets with a low-powered laser to produce a reflection or glare off its lenses, then firing at full power to disable them (think looking for snipers by watching for light glinting off their scopes).
1k11-image01.jpg 1k11-image02.jpg

And finally the "Sangvin" (GRAU designation unknown), another blinder system but optimized for use against aircraft by mounting it in the turret of a modified ZSU-23-4 Shilka. Even less info is available on it than the rest, but in testing both the Stilet and Sangvin were supposedly able to knock out electro-optics at ranges up to 10km.

78bahquoq4741.jpg

 
Does anyone have any good info on the Terra 3 laser formally at Sary Shagan? I'm especially interested if there is any truth to the Laser being used to track Space Shuttle Challenger on Oct. 10, 1984 as outlined in a 1997 article by Steven Zaloga.
 

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The other side's experiments with a similar idea, starting with the 1K17 Szhatie (Сжатие — "Compression") self-propelled laser platform. The chassis of a 2S19 Msta SPG (so in other words, a modified T-80 with the engine of a T-72) fitted with a 12-tube solid-state laser array using about 65lbs of synthetic ruby lenses and pulsed xenon flashbulbs (other sources claim they were YAG lenses). Info is scarce, but it's known that the 1K17 was more of an electronic warfare system than a directed energy weapon, its lasers would have been used to burn out electro-optical systems on enemy vehicles rather than destroying them outright.
View attachment 677836View attachment 677837

Onto something a bit weirder even, the 1K11 Stilet (Stiletto). Built off the SU-100P platform - more particularly the GMZ minelayer version if my brief research is correct, it only featured a single laser but functioned in much the same way as the 1K17. Not sure of any details on the laser, but it was again designed for use against optical systems and seekers. Allegedly it did this by hitting potential targets with a low-powered laser to produce a reflection or glare off its lenses, then firing at full power to disable them (think looking for snipers by watching for light glinting off their scopes).
View attachment 677838View attachment 677839

And finally the "Sangvin" (GRAU designation unknown), another blinder system but optimized for use against aircraft by mounting it in the turret of a modified ZSU-23-4 Shilka. Even less info is available on it than the rest, but in testing both the Stilet and Sangvin were supposedly able to knock out electro-optics at ranges up to 10km.

View attachment 677840

was the Sangvin scrapped? This actually looks like a more viable platform for anti-helicopter dazzling than the other designs thanks to their use of the Shilka.
 
Weren't US developments to create a similar system halted by some sort of law regulating the use of blinding weaponry?

1K17 was dead long before the UN ban on blinding laser weapons came into force. Both the USSR and USA had developed and were close to fielding combat blinding lasers. The Chinese produced the ZM-87 which, along with the British Outfit DEC, might be the only operational blinding lasers to see battlefield use.

Russia had some tactical lasers, mainly rangefinders, that were designed to be used with a secondary role of blinding laser capacity but troops were instructed to stop using this capability after the 1995 protocol made it a war crime.

IIRC the system was to be mounted on the Bradley chassis and the program's name was Roadrunner or something like that.

VLQ-7 Stingray was on the Bradley chassis. PLQ-5 Cobra was a man-portable system. Compass Hammer was on F-15E. Cameo Bluejay was on the Longbow Apache. Outrider was a lightweight version of the Stingray developed for the Marine Corps on the HMMWV.

All of these were developed under an umbrella of tactical blinding laser countermeasure systems (LCMS) for defeat of undetected targets using optical guidance/tracking, such as MANPADS, ATGW, sniper rifles, and guided missile launchers, before they fired. All of these were immediately canceled in FY95 following the Protocol on the Ban of Blinding Laser Weapons which was adopted by all P5 powers.

The only thing that survived, IIRC, was the targeting system from the PLQ-5. The Russians had some weird air defense lasers and stuff mounted on big ass trucks for blinding optronics, like Sniper ATP, but these never went anywhere. AFAIK they were private venture stuff.

I'm surprised the Soviets were able to avoid political issues with this,

Why? The Soviet answer to "political issues" was simple: don't cause them, or else you'll get fired, and just do your job.

Both sides of the Cold War were developing DEWs at the end of it anyway. America had experimented with particle beams for anti-missile shipboard defense in the 1970's while the USSR was probably looking at them for anti-tank use. Lasers were the next step up from this because they weren't affected by the magnetic field.

I would have figured such a vehicle would be a target in the CFE treaties or something.

Neither Stiletto nor Compression were produced. They were mere testbed articles for a more reliable or economic system.

Of the two the 1K11 had more promise for practical economic concerns, but the 1K17 incorporated a dozen separate frequency lasers for defeat of anti-laser filters, so it was better for tactical concerns. These sort of filters were developed into upgrades for the M60 and M1 by the late 1980's and are now pretty common AIUI.
 
Last edited:
1K17 was dead long before the UN ban on blinding laser weapons came into force. Both the USSR and USA had developed and were close to fielding combat blinding lasers. The Chinese produced the ZM-87 which, along with the British Outfit DEC, might be the only operational blinding lasers to see battlefield use.

Russia had some tactical lasers, mainly rangefinders, that were designed to be used with a secondary role of blinding laser capacity but troops were instructed to stop using this capability after the 1995 protocol made it a war crime.



VLQ-7 Stingray was on the Bradley chassis. PLQ-5 Cobra was a man-portable system. Compass Hammer was on F-15E. Cameo Bluejay was on the Longbow Apache. Outrider was a lightweight version of the Stingray developed for the Marine Corps on the HMMWV.

All of these were developed under an umbrella of tactical blinding laser countermeasure systems (LCMS) for defeat of undetected targets using optical guidance/tracking, such as MANPADS, ATGW, sniper rifles, and guided missile launchers, before they fired. All of these were immediately canceled in FY95 following the Protocol on the Ban of Blinding Laser Weapons which was adopted by all P5 powers.

The only thing that survived, IIRC, was the targeting system from the PLQ-5. The Russians had some weird air defense lasers and stuff mounted on big ass trucks for blinding optronics, like Sniper ATP, but these never went anywhere. AFAIK they were private venture stuff.



Why? The Soviet answer to "political issues" was simple: don't cause them, or else you'll get fired, and just do your job.

Both sides of the Cold War were developing DEWs at the end of it anyway. America had experimented with particle beams for anti-missile shipboard defense in the 1970's while the USSR was probably looking at them for anti-tank use. Lasers were the next step up from this because they weren't affected by the magnetic field.



Neither Stiletto nor Compression were produced. They were mere testbed articles for a more reliable or economic system.

Of the two the 1K11 had more promise for practical economic concerns, but the 1K17 incorporated a dozen separate frequency lasers for defeat of anti-laser filters, so it was better for tactical concerns. These sort of filters were developed into upgrades for the M60 and M1 by the late 1980's and are now pretty common AIUI.
One small correction, where you say "All of these were developed under an umbrella of tactical blinding laser countermeasure systems (LCMS) for defeat of undetected targets using optical guidance/tracking," the correct umbrella term is Electro-Optic Countermeasures (EOCM). The Laser Countermeasure System (LCMS) was a specific rifle-mounted laser-based EOCM system with two versions, AN/PLQ-4 "basic" LCMS used in development testing and AN/PLQ-5 Phase II "objective" LCMS. (See https://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a7cf10.html )

(Note that Cobra was not designated PLQ-5 as you stated. As stated at the previously given link "McDonnell-Douglas Electronic Systems Co. of McLean, Virginia, developed the Cobra for the Army. It is a portable, rifle-like, shoulder-fired, manually operated, non-scanning tactical laser weapon. Cobra was tested in 1989[57] and competed for the LCMS contract that was awarded to Lockheed Sanders.")

As stated at https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1394&context=cilj

"Perhaps the most publicized of the U.S. Army's anti-optic laser devices, the Laser Countermeasure System (LCMS) was to have been the first mass produced laser weapon. 27 The LCMS is sufficiently compact for its barrel to be mounted on the standard M-16 infantry rifle; complete with power unit, the entire device weighs 42 pounds and has an effective range of over two kilometers (approximately 1.25 miles). 28 The LCMS' primary stated role is to detect, jam, and suppress enemy fire control, optical and electrooptical systems; however, it also can impair vision and at 1,000 meters or less "may cause permanent eye injury to the [observer], including blindness."

From https://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1397&context=ilr

"Lockheed Sanders developed the Laser Countermeasure System (LCMS). 38 Ultimately, the LCMS became the Army's most advanced portable tactical laser weapon system. In 1995, the LCMS came under some of the closest scrutiny of all U.S. tactical laser weapons programs. 39 ... Development and production of tactical laser weapons advanced through 1995, even as the United States undertook a review of its policy and prepared for the CCW Review Conference, which led to Protocol IV's ban on blinding laser weapons. In the course of less than two months, the United States contracted to produce its most advanced tactical laser weapon, the LCMS, and then cancelled the program. On August 31, 1995, the day before the Department of Defense issued its policy statement, the military awarded a $16.8 million contract to Lockheed Sanders, Inc. of Nashua, New Hampshire for the production of fifty actual and twenty-five low power training units of the LCMS. 56 The contract was part of a $275 million program that called for procurement of approximately 2500 of the systems, each costing between $85,000 and $100,000. 57"

After the cancellation of the LCMS program, the targeting system developed for LCMS was continued as the Target Location and Observation System (TLOS). For more on TLOS, see the following thread https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/an-pxx-x-tlos.17894/

I worked on the research and development of some of the technologies for the LCMS program when I worked at the U.S. Army's Night Vision and Electronics Sensors Directorate (NVESD) in the 1990s. My NVESD colleagues who also worked on LCMS R&D and I were on the source selection committee for the LCMS prototype production that was awarded to Lockheed Sanders. We were also involved with the technology transfer of the LCMS technologies that we developed at NVESD to Lockheed Sanders, and then with helping them trouble shoot any technical issues during the early stages of their implementing those technologies.

After the cancellation of the LCMS program, we worked on the technologies for TLOS and its follow-on the Enhanced TLOS (ETLOS).
 
I came across two web pages with information from sanitized and declassified documents about the CIA/American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics Conference on Soviet Threat Technology, Tuesday, 8 April 1986 at the CIA Headquarters Auditorium 1:

THE ATTACHED CONTAINS BACKGROUND AND TALKING POINTS FOR YOUR WELCOMING REMARKS TO THE JOINT CIA/AIAA | CIA FOIA (foia.cia.gov)


www.cia.gov
www.cia.gov

and https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88G01117R001004020002-2.pdf

The first link has run together text and the second link is a PDF with the same information, but as an image rather than as searchable text.

Here is an excerpt about Soviet developments in Directed Energy Weapons:

"VI. Directed-Energy and Hypervelocity Kinetic-Energy Weapons

Directed-energy and kinetic-energy weapons potentially could be developed for several strategic weapons applications--antisatellite (ASAT), air defense, battlefield use, and, in the longer term, ballistic missile defense (BMD).

There is strong evidence of Soviet efforts to develop high-energy laser weapons, and these efforts have been taking place, in some cases, since the 1960s:

--We estimate a laser weapon program of the magnitude of the Soviet effort would cost roughly $1 billion per year if carried out in the United States.

--Two facilities at the Saryshagan test range are assessed to have high-energy lasers with the potential to function as ASAT weapons.

--We are concerned about a large Soviet program to develop ground-based laser weapons for terminal defense against reentry vehicles. There are major uncertainties, however, concerning the feasibility and practicality of using ground-based lasers for BMD. We expect the Soviets to test the feasibility of such a system during the 1980s, probably using one of the high-energy laser facilities at Saryshagan. An operational system could not be deployed until many years later, probably not until after the year 2000.

--The Soviets appear to be developing two high-energy laser weapons with potential strategic air defense applications--ground-based and naval point defense.

--The Soviets are continuing to develop an airborne laser.

--Soviet research includes a project to develop high-energy laser weapons for use in space. A prototype high-energy, space-based laser ASAT weapon could be tested in low orbit in the early 1990s. Even if testing were successful, such a system probably could not be operational before the mid-1990s.

The Soviets are also conducting research under military sponsorship for the purpose of acquiring the ability to develop particle beam weapons (PBWs). We believe the Soviets will eventually attempt to build a space-based PBW, but the technical requirements are so severe that we estimate there is a low probability they will test a prototype before the year 2000.

The Soviets are strong in the technologies appropriate for radiofrequency (RF) weapons, which could be used to interfere with or destroy components of missiles or satellites, and we judge they are probably capable of developing a prototype RF weapon system.

We are concerned that Soviet directed-energy programs may have proceeded to the point where they could construct operational ground-based ASAT weapons."
 

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