Soviet Army doctrine using helicopters to refuel tanks in the field

[Pioneer]

G'day all

I've just finished reading an article titled Australian soldiers practise Abrams tank refuelling with Chinook helicopter

Australian soldiers practise Abrams tank refuelling with Chinook helicopter | Shephard

The Australian Army has demonstrated tactical refuelling of M1 Abrams tanks with the CH-47 Chinook helicopter the first time in five years.

www.shephardmedia.com

I would otherwise be impressed, except that I appreciate that the Soviet Army had heavy lift helicopters refuelling tank units long before either the US or Australian Armies had such aspirations.

If I could, can I press knowledgeable forum members for a year in which the Soviet Army might have introduced such helicopter refuelling of tanks as part of their operational doctrine and for pictures they might have of such helicopter refuelling tanks in the field please?

Regards
Pioneer

 

[TomS]

I've never seen a picture of this being done.

It seems like something that might have happened in Afghanistan. There were certainly cases where Soviet armored columns got cut off from their trailing ground logistics. In such a case, aerial resupply of fuel might be considered to get a column moving again.

However, I don't see it mentioned in either The Bear Went over the Mountain or The Other Side of the Mountain, where you'd expect such ops to get a mention.

Even for US/Australian forces, the wagon equation is really, really not in your favor for this sort of operation. The amount of fuel spent to move the fuel rapidly approaches the amount of fuel you need to move.

 

[Dynoman]

Soviet amphibious tank being refueled from a Yak-24 helicopter as early as 1958.

 

[TomS]

Soviet amphibious tank being refueled from a Yak-24 helicopter as early as 1958.

Well, that's something I had not seen before. TY

 

[Pioneer]

Soviet amphibious tank being refueled from a Yak-24 helicopter as early as 1958.

Wow, great pic thanks Dynoman!

Looking at the picture, Im wondering if the notion was that recon elements would potentially be so far ahead of the main force, as a consequence, so to would be the logistics.....



Regards
Pioneer

 

[jstar]

Not refueling tanks, but in Kuwait 20 years ago...https://www.stripes.com/news/chinooks-help-army-copters-refuel-in-perilous-conditions-1.3016

 

[jstar]

I've never seen a picture of this being done.

It seems like something that might have happened in Afghanistan. There were certainly cases where Soviet armored columns got cut off from their trailing ground logistics. In such a case, aerial resupply of fuel might be considered to get a column moving again.

However, I don't see it mentioned in either The Bear Went over the Mountain or The Other Side of the Mountain, where you'd expect such ops to get a mention.

Even for US/Australian forces, the wagon equation is really, really not in your favor for this sort of operation. The amount of fuel spent to move the fuel rapidly approaches the amount of fuel you need to move.

https://flic.kr/p/22mWAaP

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/soldiersmediacenter/38962030225

 

[TomS]

I've never seen a picture of this being done.

https://flic.kr/p/22mWAaP

View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/soldiersmediacenter/38962030225

I meant that I had never seen pictures of Soviet forces doing this (until Dynoman's post). Obviously the US and others do exercise this capability occasionally, but it's still going to be really rare in real life.

 

[Hood]

Soviet amphibious tank being refueled from a Yak-24 helicopter as early as 1958.

Yes, one Yak-24 was converted in 1957 with three fuel tanks in the cabin for 3,156 litres (694 gal) of fuel - either petrol or kerosene. The refuelling system was codenamed 'Looch' (Ray/Beam). Trials involved refuelling vehicles in woods and floating PT-76s.

Another related conversion in 1957 was the Yak-24T with the Nerpa system, cassettes of 44 40mm diameter PTM-100 POL pipes being attached to the fuselage sides and dropped to engineering teams. This was tested but the idea was dropped as the fuel lines were vulnerable.

 

[Pioneer]

I guess one can emphasis the seriousness of Soviet doctrine when:

'The Mil Mi-6TZ-SV (toplivo-zapravshchik – sookhoputnyye voyska – fuel tanker-ground forces) was a derivative of the Mi-6A for use in support of mechanised units.
It carried four 2,250 litre fuel tanks of diesel fuel inside its cargo compartment. A pump station and two reels of hose were located in the rear cargo compartment for refuelling vehicles.'

Regards
Pioneer

 

[_Del_]

The amount of fuel spent to move the fuel rapidly approaches the amount of fuel you need to move.

Adds up extremely quickly. Either the 500 gallon sling load or the internal fat cow configuration for a FARP (~800 gallons) is not a lot of capacity. Four ship flight gets you 2000 gallons in blivets. Each Chinook burns about 340 gallons an hour (x4=1360 an hour to deliver -2000 gallon)

A single HEMTT brings 2500 gallons at a much cheaper price.

But there are some areas where you don't want to bring a convoy of HEMTT's and associated security detail in other vehicles up a windy single lane mountain road with less-than-friendly locals. Or exposed behind enemy lines of battle in support of a sensitive mission, etc.

 

[riggerrob]

The amount of fuel spent to move the fuel rapidly approaches the amount of fuel you need to move.

Adds up extremely quickly. Either the 500 gallon sling load or the internal fat cow configuration for a FARP (~800 gallons) is not a lot of capacity. Four ship flight gets you 2000 gallons in blivets. Each Chinook burns about 340 gallons an hour (x4=1360 an hour to deliver -2000 gallon)

A single HEMTT brings 2500 gallons at a much cheaper price.

But there are some areas where you don't want to bring a convoy of HEMTT's and associated security detail in other vehicles up a windy single lane mountain road with less-than-friendly locals. Or exposed behind enemy lines of battle in support of a sensitive mission, etc.

One analyst said it cost 5,000 dollars to deliver a gallon of diesel fuel to an American outpost deep in the mountains of Afghanistan …. by truck convoy! Also consider the number of trucks lost to road-side bombs, ambushes, etc,
I shudder to think of the dollar cost of delivering fuel by helicopter. Delivery by helicopter would only be logical after the enemy had cut a supply line by blowing a bridge or avalanche.

 

[WatcherZero]

Worth remember as well road logistic capacity was always a Soviet/Russian weakness, they didnt have the trucks to manage 1,000 km+ supply lines for a large force via highway, their preferred method was always to deliver by rail/transport aircraft to a hub and then you would do the last 20-30 miles to the forward supply depot in a truck.