Soviet aircraft depictions in European trade press - help needed.

flateric

ACCESS: USAP
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
1 April 2006
Messages
11,033
Reaction score
8,374
Subject: T-3 Fishpot and S-1 Fitter prototypes appearance reaction in German/Swiss/Italian/French aviation press of the time (Das Flieger, Flugwelt, Interavia etc). Photos, drawings, attempts to connect Mikoyan E-4 and E-5 to Sukhoi OKB etc. Overall Tushino show coverage.

If someone has pieces on both types as described in JAWA starting 1959-60 to 1962-63 editions I would be obliged as well.

Any help is appreciated!
 
I also wonder what was exact time when Fishbed became correctly associated with Mikoyan OKB?
 
I kindly suggest you to check French "Avaition Magazine International" at Gallica
T-3.png

For example, reports from Tushino parade in 1956:
 

Attachments

  • Tushino_Pages from AMI_1956_192.pdf
    2 MB · Views: 11
  • Tushino_Pages from AMI_1956_193.pdf
    3.3 MB · Views: 11
  • T-3_AMI-1956.png
    T-3_AMI-1956.png
    1.3 MB · Views: 43
  • Fitter.png
    Fitter.png
    936 KB · Views: 41
Last edited:
Jane's all the world's aircraft 1962-63 - from pages 302-303.
 

Attachments

  • JAWA 1962-1963.jpg
    JAWA 1962-1963.jpg
    1.8 MB · Views: 44
Yes, I have them, but you have saved my time. Thank you!
 
"Aviation Magazine International" during 1955-60 has published a series of articles "L' Aviation Sovietique" about Russian/Soviet aviation, describing the historical and modern aircraft of all kind (133 articles overall). Among them were stories of aircraft designers. Surprisingly, in 1957, Pavel Sukhoi has been described relatievly well.
 

Attachments

  • Sukhoi_AMI_1957.jpg
    Sukhoi_AMI_1957.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 42
"Aviation Magazine International" during 1955-60 has published a series of articles "L' Aviation Sovietique" about Russian/Soviet aviation, describing the historical and modern aircraft of all kind (133 articles overall). Among them were stories of aircraft designers. Surprisingly, in 1957, Pavel Sukhoi has been described relatievly well.
Looks like there are at least three variants of Tushino transcription in French. Oh là là!
 
Three delta -wing fighters were shown for the first time at the Tushino , Moscow air display. All are attributed to designer Sukhoy . Characteristic features of one of the three are described as follows : long cylindrical fuselage of constant section from the air intake in the nose to the tail attachment; annular air intake round a supersonic diffusor off -centred towards the top; delta wing with approx . 60 ° leading edge sweep ; sharply swept elevator and rudder units.

Interavia July 1956
 
I have the Interavia Tushino 1956 report, will post later. They got very confused about everything, that's for sure.
 
I have 1959-60 Janes Sukhoi entry.

SUKHOI
PAVEL OSIPOVICH SUKHOI
Sukhoi is not well-known. He helped
to design the Ant-25 and had a share in
the construction of the “Rodina” before
the last war and his Su-2 attack aeroplane
was used in the war. He was
responsible for one of the jet aircraft
displayed in the 1947 Soviet Aviation Day
Display.

Nearly a decade later, on June 24, 1956,
there appeared at Tushino three delta wing\
experimental fighters from Sukhoi’s
design offices. They appear to represent
three modifications of a basic design and
are described hereafter. The Su-15 is
understood to be in operational service
but the Su-16 has not gone beyond the
experimental stage.
The ‘‘T-431” single-jet aircraft in
which Major V. 8. Ilyushin raised the
world’s aeroplane height record to 28,852
m. (94,658 ft.) on July 14, 1959, is believed
to have been a Sukhoi delta-wing fighter.

THE SUKHOI Su-16

NATO Code Name: ‘‘Fishbed A’’
The ‘“‘Fishbed A” has a long tubular
fuselage and delta wings with a leading edge
sweepback of approximately 60°,
set in a mid or low-mid position. The
wing-tips are pointed. The tail unit is
conventional but the tailplane is noteworthy
in having large forward fillets
extending almost to the wing trailing
edge. There is a bulge under the rear
fuselage, possibly housing a rocket engine,
and ‘‘Fishbed A” appears to have an air
intake centre-body.
Span is approximately 7.5 m. (24 ft.
7 in.) and the length 14.6 m. (48 ft.).
Loaded weight is estimated at around
8,500 kg. (18,750 Ib.). The power plant
is thought to be an axial-flow turbojet
giving an output of some 5,000 kg.
(11,000 Ib.) s.t., perhaps increased by use
of an afterburner. The performance
may include a top speed of Mach 1.7 at
11,000 m. (36,000 ft.).

NATO Code Name: ‘‘Fishbed B’’

The “Fishbed B” is rather similar to
the “A” variant but has blunted wingtips.
The tailplane lacks the leading edge
extensions of the ‘“‘Fishbed A”’’,

According to U.S. Navy sources, this
aircraft has three boundary-layer fences
above each wing and a rack for external
stores under each wing.

This particular aircraft is the subject
of the adjacent illustration.

THE SUKHOI Su-15
NATO Code Name: ‘‘Fishpot’’
This aeroplane, which is believed to
be in limited operational service in the
Soviet Air Force as a single-seat all weather
fighter, appeared at the same
display in 1956 as the two ‘“‘Fishbeds’’.
It is distinguished from them by a conical
body at the top of the air intake orifice,
probably housing short-range target
locating and tracking radar. Armament
consists of air-to-air missiles, probably
of the infra-red target-seeking type.
This aircraft is believed to be powered
by a single turbojet engine developing
about 10,000 kg. (22,000 lb.) s.t., giving
it @ maximum speed in excess of Mach 2.
DIMENSIONS.—
Span 7.45 m. (24 ft. 5 in.)
Length 14.50 m. (47 ft. 7 in.)
WEIGHTS (approx.).—
Weight empty 4,100 kg. (9,020 lb.)
Weight loaded 5,800 kg. (12,760 lb,)
PERFORMANCE.—
Max. speed 1,580 km.h. (980 m.p.h.)
Cruising speed 1,450 km.h. (900 m.p.h.)
Climb to 11,000 m. (36,080 ft.) 1 min. 28 sec.
Ceiling 17,700 m. (58,060 ft.)
Range 1,760 km. (1,108 miles).
 

Attachments

  • Sukhoi-Fishbed.png
    Sukhoi-Fishbed.png
    397.7 KB · Views: 18
Air Pictorial April 1959

Air Pictorial Fishpot.png

ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED of Russia's current production interceptors is the single- seat, all-weather fighter designed by Pavel Sukhoi and dubbed "Fishpot" by N.A.T.O. Powered by a single afterburning axial- flow turbojet which is believed to offer a maximum thrust of 15,500 lb. , the "Fishpot" was publicly demonstrated at Tushino in 1956. The "Fishpot" is the first Russian service interceptor to carry no cannon armament, and believed to be fitted with full fire- control radar and the latest navigational aids. The "Fishpot" has been seen flying in squadron-size formations in the Moscow area.

Armament: Launchers for 50-mm. folding-fin aircraft rockets in wingroots and two infra-red homers on fuselage sides, close to wing leading edges.
Est. Dimensions: Span 26 ft.; length 50 ft.; height 15ftwing area 260 sq. ft.
Est. Performance: Max. speed 1,320 m.p.h. at 40,000 ft. (Mach 2.0); tactical radius 200 miles; ceiling 60,000 ft.
 
and the MiG-21 and T-3 Fishpot were both Sukhoi.
There were two delta-wing MiGs at Tushino -
E-4 and E-5/1 (apart from swept-wing E-2) and both were attributed to 'new' Sukhoi OKB not only by media but by CIA and ONI as well. Well, would seem _logical_.
 
FISHPOT' IN SERVICE"

The Aeroplane Fishpot.png

This U.S. Navy photograph shows a model of the all weather fighter designed by Sukhoi and code-named 'Fishpot' by NATO, whichis reported to be in production in the U.S.S.R. Powered by a 22,000- lb thrust turbojet, it has a maximum speed in excess of Mach 2. Formations of these aircraft have been seen in the Moscow area. The prototypes were first seen at Tushino in 1956.

Approximate dimensions :span, 25 ft. , length 50 ft.; diameter of the tail pipe,52 in.

The Aeroplane 1958
 
There were two delta-wing MiGs at Tushino -
E-4 and E-5/1 (apart from swept-wing E-2) and both were attributed to 'new' Sukhoi OKB not only by media but by CIA and ONI as well. Well, would seem _logical_.
Yes they assumed the Fitter was Mikoyan, related to MiG-19 and E-2 Faceplate by wing shape, and the delta wings were Sukhoi. Fishpot was also estimated about 10% too small in size.
 
Ah. This is an official Sukhoi OKB art so kinda little out of subject.
 
I also wonder what was exact time when Fishbed became correctly associated with Mikoyan OKB?
Aviation Week's July 17 coverage of Tushino 1961 Airshow correctly identifies Fishbed as Mikoyan and Fitter and Fishpot as Sukhoi. Of course, it also says the Tu-28 'Blinder' is Yakovlev and a development of Yakovlev's earlier Backfin and that the Tu-22 'Beauty' is Mach 2.5 and its refuelling probe which 'could boost it to intercontinental ranges'.
 
Aviation Week 9 March 1959 -

Fishbed is Su-16 and competition to Su-15 (Fishpot), not in production. MiG-21 Faceplate is operational.
 
Su-15 and Su-16 designations are probably from Interavia and it's pet European fantasists.
 
Last edited:
Okay, so Aviation Week call Fishbed Mikoyan ONLY from Tushino 1961 first news about the Ye-152 Flipper (July 10 1961).

They also mixed up Su-9 Fishpots with radar and AAMs with Fishbed.

New supersonic Soviet long-range interceptor armed with air—to—air rockets has been seen
by Western observers in the rehearsal flybys for the Tushino air show. This delta-winged
fighter appears to be a Mikoyan design developed from his earlier Fishbed (AW Feb. 17,
1958, p. 87) but considerably faster a
nd with longer range than this earlier Mach 2 design
first exhibited in 1956. The new fighter is about 85 ft. long, has a single large air intake with
a conical diffuser that houses airborne intercept radar. It appears to have three engine outlets
at the tail, of which two may be turbojets with the third a large rocket boost motor. Air-to—
air rockets appear to be infrared guided, similar to the de Havilland Firestreak. This new
design is believed to be the aircraft the Soviets have designated the “E-66" in claiming world speed
and altitude records for it of 1,335 mph. and 112,204 ft. Large formations of the
earlier Fishbeds have been observed in the rehearsals carrying four air-to—air missiles slung
under their wings. These Fishbeds also carry airborne radar.

They happily refer readers back to their Fishbed-B article from 17 Feb 1958 describing it as a failed Sukhoi design without comment on the change of status.

Fishbed B Fences, Fins Indicate Airflow Problem
Supersonic Russian fighter designed by Pavel Sukhoi and codenamed Fishbed by NATO was observed at the 1956 Tushino airshow. Development of Fishbed B has been discontinued; it has been superseded by the Sukhoi Fishpot (AW Jan. 20, p. 38).

Wing fences and ventral fins on Fishbcd B—large number of which indicate aerodynamic troubles—have been eliminated on Fishpot. Wing planform and tail arrangement on the two aircraft are nearly identical.
 
Last edited:
Possibly related in timing to this revelation is the export of Fishbeds to Warpac countries, or it may be that the Tushino 1961 airshow announced them as Mikoyan designs?

Soviet Russia now is exporting its latest generation of operational supersonic fighters to Soviet satellite air forces and is pushing first generation supersonic fighters and jet bombers into countries with communist leanings.

East Germany, Hungary and Poland now have the Mikoyan Mach 2, delta—wing Fishbed fighter in their air defense units
 
Thank you everyone for help!!
Another early Fishpot 3-view from Gordon's book, original source is unknown
 

Attachments

  • Fishpot - unknown Western press source.jpg
    Fishpot - unknown Western press source.jpg
    196.9 KB · Views: 11
from Mikoyan MiG-21 (Osprey Air Combat) by Bill Gunston (1987)
 

Attachments

  • Mikoyan MiG-21 (Osprey Air Combat) by Bill Gunston (1987) 10.jpg
    Mikoyan MiG-21 (Osprey Air Combat) by Bill Gunston (1987) 10.jpg
    312.3 KB · Views: 12
  • Mikoyan MiG-21 (Osprey Air Combat) by Bill Gunston (1987) 11.jpg
    Mikoyan MiG-21 (Osprey Air Combat) by Bill Gunston (1987) 11.jpg
    403.8 KB · Views: 21
Things don't seem to have settled by 1964; for example William Green's The World's Fighting Planes (4th Ed.), MacDonald & Co.

Fishbed is certainly a MiG-21 but it said;
...two prototypes being demonstrated in public over Tushino, Moscow, on June 24, 1956, the type being promptly allocated the western code-name "Fishbed". At the same time, one example of a variant of the basic design, dubbed "Faceplate" appeared, and although this type was not to attain quantity production status, it revealed an interesting Russian experiment in "limited commonality" - two types with a number of major components in common but differing in certain critical features chosen to suit individual roles.
It goes on to say that a "service evaluation quantity" of Faceplates were built - presumably a reference to the six Ye-2A aircraft.

The Ye-152A is referred to as the MiG-23 "Flipper" with no reference to the Ye-152 (or Ye-166) designation (Flipper was assigned by NATO after its showing at Tushino in 1961). The dummy K-9 AAMs being designated "Awl".

Fishpot is a Sukhoi product but no Su- prefix is provided.
The Fishpot is described as having been designed in parallel with the MiG-21 but for the all-weather intercept role. Again it claims the "limited commonality" theory, claiming that it shared major components with the Fitter. It does not reference the post-Tushino mix-up with MiG as the designer but it does mention the mistake that the Fishpot was thought to be a clear-weather interceptor like the MiG-21. The record-breaking T-431 is referenced.

The entry for the Fitter doesn't give the Su-7 designation, the entry just being plain "Fitter". It claims the aircraft had the same fuselage and tail surfaces as the Fishpot.

Other faux pas in the book include Tu-20 Bear (although it does say Tu-95 was the Tupolev bureau designation!) and the Yakovlev Fiddler, which of course was the Tu-128 (the entry claiming Backfin was a Yakovlev product too). But generally William Green in his text makes it clear that a lot of the data tables are estimates based on limited knowledge and dimensions guessed from grainy photographs. He seems to have done the best he could with the materials at hand and with JAWA etc. not offering much better info there wasn't much other authors could do I guess.
 
Last edited:
Looking for Su-24 piece from AI January 1981...thanks in advance!
 

Attachments

  • s-l1600 - 2023-10-29T143113.952.jpg
    s-l1600 - 2023-10-29T143113.952.jpg
    235.9 KB · Views: 20

Attachments

  • Su-24-AI-1-81-p6.jpg
    Su-24-AI-1-81-p6.jpg
    7 MB · Views: 12
  • Su-24-AI-1-81-p7.jpg
    Su-24-AI-1-81-p7.jpg
    7 MB · Views: 15
  • Su-24-AI-1-81-p8.jpg
    Su-24-AI-1-81-p8.jpg
    8.2 MB · Views: 17
  • Su-24-AI-1-81-p9.jpg
    Su-24-AI-1-81-p9.jpg
    6.3 MB · Views: 17
  • Su-24-AI-1-81-p10.jpg
    Su-24-AI-1-81-p10.jpg
    7.3 MB · Views: 18

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom