SNCASE (Sud-Est) SE.2010 « Armagnac »

[toura]

Hi all
Before the Armagnac was a project : SE 2000
after the Armagnac was a projecr : the Super Armagnac
Who know more ?

 

[Caravellarella]

Ah Toura, the SNCASE Sud-Est SE.2010 Armagnac; my second favourite aircraft of all time ;D......

The picture you have posted is the proposed turboprop Super Armagnac powered by four SNECMA TB-1000 engines; it remained a "project". Sadly the engine was never produced; the Armagnac was still hampered by it's mid-wing layout and by being overweight (it was built from constant-gauge alloys) so any turboprop version would not have been competitive with the Bristol Britannia.

SNCASE did intend to fit aircraft No. 15 with the Allison T40 turboprop but production ended after the 9th aircraft. The Armagnac should be remembered, however, as the first wide-body airliner to enter production/service......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Toura, I don't have anything on the original SNCASE Sud-Est SE.2000 "project"; but here is a SNCASE drawing from February 1946 showing the SE.2010 Armagnac when it was still at the "project" stage.

Note the Gnôme Rhôme GR18 radial engines and the Émile Dewoitine-style tail-fin. The engine couldn't match the increase in weight of the design and was cancelled and replaced by the Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major. The tail-fin was redesigned and a dorsal fin added to meet ICAO engine-out controllability requirements. Otherwise, the basic Armagnac design is all there......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[toura]

Dear Caravellarella
I thank you for your interesting 3 views.
if I understand, the SE2000 study was (perhaps) a little first 2010
but with a classic undercarriage.
I like very much to know the evolution of a study to see the
engineer works.........
THANKS AND BYE

 

[toura]

But a problem

 

[alertken]

Spotty youth clutching his Ian Allan reggies book emerges onto Heathrow Viewing Terrace for the first time, Feb.1958. There, blocking the horizon, nose right up against the window...SAGETA F-BAVF, c/n 5. Substituting for AF V.708 on maintenance. My spotting days started at the top and went downhill.

Brits have insufficient knowledge of (especially French) Continental transports parallel with our Brabazon Committee efforts. John Stroud/Putnam did European Transport Aircraft Since 1910, but it was high at birth, stratospheric since. Reasons for their commercial failures? I offer: superior US engines; bombed/sabotaged factories; no State money; feeble domestic-origin traffic; cheap US surplus types. Designers were quite as bright as any other -after all, we all used NACA/Gottingen aerofoils.

 

[MIRAGE 4000]

See the new book on Armagnac program

Very interesting

 

[toura]

thanks Mirage 4000, but, what is the tittle ?

 

[Caravellarella]

Spotty youth clutching his Ian Allan reggies book emerges onto Heathrow Viewing Terrace for the first time, Feb.1958. There, blocking the horizon, nose right up against the window...SAGETA F-BAVF, c/n 5. Substituting for AF V.708 on maintenance.

Excellent Alertken, I'd always been told that no Armagnac had ever visited the United Kingdom......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[toura]

Hi all
Bad photo but......the super ARMAGNAC model
at le Bourget
Snecma TB 1000 turboprop and contrarotatives
airscrews

 

[Caravellarella]

Hi all
Bad photo but......the super ARMAGNAC model
at le Bourget
Snecma TB 1000 turboprop and contrarotatives
airscrews

Thank you Toura, I was just about to add that picture myself......

All best, Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Hi all
Before the Armagnac was a project : SE 2000

For you Toura. Notice the Dewoitine-style tail-fin......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[toura]

We have a problem ????

 

[toura]

Hi TERRY
I look again to your SE 2010 "ARMAGNAC" refuelling "Grognard" !
But I read in Jean Cuny's book "Les avions de combat FRANCAIS "
that the SE 2418 version of the "Grognard" would have a refueling
probe in the nose...........
Not so funny your photo !!!
Bye

 

[toura]

From Jean CUNY' book

 

[Stargazer]

A book on the SNCASE SE.2010 Armagnac (information given by Caravellarella):

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12622.0

 

[hesham]

On my list,

there was a Project for SNCASE,called SE.2000,but fitted only with two engines not four,
maybe a variant of it ?.

 

[Stargazer]

Just found it. It's all there, further up in the page!
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12425.msg124967.html#msg124967

The designation was indeed used twice, for a four-engine transatlantic heavy bomber project and for the pre-Armagnac project. You'll find that the S.E. 2000-5 had four engines, though, not two, but as the -5 suffix suggests four earlier iterations of the same basic design (perhaps the bomber was also one of them?)

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Skyblazer,

and I will check,maybe it was a typo or misprint.

 

[toura]

Hi all

I found this in all papers and, more it is dated 1942 !
It is not his place !!
but I think that it is the beginning of the SE 2010 ?
Who know more

 

[hesham]

My dear Toura,

the T-052 maybe the basis for SE-2000,but twin engined is a weird concept,so I will check,

and here is a clearer view to T-052

 

[Stargazer]

According to Caravellarella, a few minutes ago:

Your drawing is the T-052 predecessor of 1941/42 which is very much a Dewoitine design. The SE.2000 was designed in August 1943..... The SE.2000-5 is an early Armagnac with a squat Dewoitine tail-fin and a shorter wingspan from 18th February 1943. It had paired cabin windows like a Stratoliner. I can't find any mention of a bomber version.

 

[hesham]

Oh my God,

you still connect with my dear Caravellarella,we miss him so much,I know his career
now is naval ships as I heard,and the twin engined in my list was a transport and not
bomber.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Oh my God,

you still connect with my dear Caravellarella,we miss him so much,I know his career
now is naval ships as I heard,and the twin engined in my list was a transport and not
bomber.

According to Caravellarella, a few minutes ago:

Your drawing is the T-052 predecessor of 1941/42 which is very much a Dewoitine design. The SE.2000 was designed in August 1943..... The SE.2000-5 is an early Armagnac with a squat Dewoitine tail-fin and a shorter wingspan from 18th February 1943. It had paired cabin windows like a Stratoliner. I can't find any mention of a bomber version.

Please give our regards to Caravellarella from all of us, Skyblazer.

 

[Caravellarella]

Oh my God,

you still connect with my dear Caravellarella,we miss him so much,I know his career
now is naval ships as I heard,and the twin engined in my list was a transport and not
bomber.

According to Caravellarella, a few minutes ago:

Your drawing is the T-052 predecessor of 1941/42 which is very much a Dewoitine design. The SE.2000 was designed in August 1943..... The SE.2000-5 is an early Armagnac with a squat Dewoitine tail-fin and a shorter wingspan from 18th February 1943. It had paired cabin windows like a Stratoliner. I can't find any mention of a bomber version.

Please give our regards to Caravellarella from all of us, Skyblazer.

Dear Hesham, I'm not in the navy; I just don't visit this group any longer (except for this occasion). If you want to learn more about the birth of the S.N.C.A.S.E SE-2010 Armagnac, I'd recommend buying a copy of the book......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[hesham]

Many thanks my dear Caravellarella.

 

[foiling]

I am very sorry to learn that 'Caravellarella' no longer visits this site. I always truly enjoyed his contributions. I found him to be very well-mannered, thorough and helpful. His 3-view posts (my passion) were always of a high standard, almost invariably something new to me and of great interest. If anyone is in contact with him, please let him know that i will miss him, and wish him very well.

Neville Giloi
Cape Town

 

[Stargazer]

I am very sorry to learn that 'Caravellarella' no longer visits this site. I always truly enjoyed his contributions. I found him to be very well-mannered, thorough and helpful. His 3-view posts (my passion) were always of a high standard, almost invariably something new to me and of great interest. If anyone is in contact with him, please let him know that i will miss him, and wish him very well.

Neville Giloi
Cape Town

Hi Neville! As you can see, our friend returned yesterday to pay us a visit (two posts above yours)!

When I told him that he had hords of fans out here screaming at the mention of his name and begging for him to send a sign, it certainly made its little effect! ROTFL

 

[Tonton-42]

Dear Hesham, I'm not in the navy; I just don't visit this group any longer (except for this occasion). If you want to learn more about the birth of the S.N.C.A.S.E SE-2010 Armagnac, I'd recommend buying a copy of the book......

Terry (Caravellarella)
[/quote]

Excellent and unique work on a fascinating subject (I have one). And I don't say that because SE 2010 Armagnac is my favourite four-engined plane of transport with propellers ...

Tonton

 

[Caravellarella]

Are you in my S.N.C.A.S.E SE-2010 Armagnac appreciation group on facebook?

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Stargazer]

Are you in my S.N.C.A.S.E SE-2010 Armagnac appreciation group on facebook?

Which reminds me I'm not either... So many groups, so little time... We'll see, though. I'm an Armagnac lover! (and not just the beverage, though it's delightful too...)

 

[Tonton-42]

Are you in my S.N.C.A.S.E SE-2010 Armagnac appreciation group on facebook?

Terry (Caravellarella)

Sorry but I have not found how connect me (I'm too old to understand ???) ! But that interrests me !

Tonton

 

[Caravellarella]

The S.N.C.A.S.E SE-2010 Armagnac is a personal favourite; I'm not sure why it features in this group......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Bazinga]

1945 Aviation Francaise

 

[Bazinga]

1945 Les Ailes

 

[Bazinga]

1946 L'Air

 

[Bazinga]

1948 Aviation Francaise. Relation between SE.2000 an SE.2010