SNCASE (Sud-Est) SE.1010

[flying-finn]

Trying to find any information about postwar SNCASE warplane projects here, i'm find out that there is no information about SE-1010, high altitude reconnaissanse plane.
It looks very close to Republic XF-12 Rainbow.
Here some information about SE-1010.

First flight was made by Jacques LECARME on November 24, 1948. SE-1010 was the four-engine monoplane, made for photographic reconnaissance, powered by 4 SNECMA 14R-28.
Empty weight - 15.0 tons
take-off weight - 24.0 tons
wingspan - 31.00 meters
length - 21.80m
max speed of 520 km/h
cruise speed 400 km/h

Plane was lost on October 1, 1949 due to flat spin. The crew of six (Test pilot Henry VANDERPOL, flight test engineer Pierre Bouillon, engineer Silvio Agliana, radio operator Marius RIVET, mechanics Valery Chasson and Fernand PILLET) was lost...

 

[Justo Miranda]

From
Le Fana de l'Aviation

 

[Caravellarella]

A personal favourite of mine; though hardly "Secret" and very definitely not a "Project". Here is some contemporary press including a piece in Les Ailes bemoaning the fact that they were not allowed to cover the first flight......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

The thing to bear in mind about the SE-1010 is that design commenced in February 1945 (moderators, should this be in "Early Projects" instead?) as a pressurised, Transatlantic high-speed courier & postal aircraft; the SE-1001. The production SE-1011 would have differed considerably too......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Caravellarella]

Sorry, I'm not set up to scan larger than A4, but here is some contemporary publicity on the SE-1010 from the 30th January 1947 of Décollage......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[flying-finn]

Thank you for perfect addition, Justo Miranda and Caravellarella!!

 

[Stargazer]

Thank you guys for all this wonderful material about one of my favorite French prototypes...

It looks very close to Republic XF-12 Rainbow.

From a distance maybe, and I know on first impression it did that to me to... but I have to admit the SE 1010 was a lot less graceful than its equally unfortunate American counterpart...

 

[Caravellarella]

The production SE-1011 aircraft differed in these aspects......

1. Bristol Hercules engines.
2. A taller tail-fin.
3. Twin high-aspect ratio out-rigger tail-fins (this aircraft had a very short tail-moment which probaby led to the loss of the prototype).
4. Conventional ailerons.
5. Longer chord trailing-edge flaps.
6. A differently glazed nose with B-29 (or nazi german bomber) style multiple panels.

Construction of the 3 production SE-1011s was abandoned by the end of 1950. Other planned derivatives were......

SE-1015 - Long-range 18 seater courier airliner with SNECMA 14R 28/29 engines and a perhaps slightly larger diameter fuselage.

SE-1020 - Maritime patrol aircraft with Jumo 213 engines and gun turrets.

SE-1030 & SE-1035 - High Speed Stratospheric airliners from 1947 with a more conventional larger diameter airliner fuselage design.

SE-1040 - Turboprop test-bed to evlaluate the Rolls-Royce Dart engine.

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[flying-finn]

Very useful information! Is there any 3 view plan of SE-1011?
What was the real reason to construct SE-1011?
Seems to be to late for piston engine powered planes to be lucky.
Great rise of the jets was able to make any older design dead before born.

 

[Jemiba]

Two 3-views of the SE.1001 and the 1011 made by Joel Mesnard, I've got via the aeroforum:

 

[Caravellarella]

Thanks Jemiba for the 2 three-view drawings from August 1987 issue of Fana de l'Aviation......

Flying-Finn, in this period France was just as bad as the UK for developing and/or building aircraft for which there was no customer, requirement or viable order book. All the pictures I've seen of the SE-1010 under construction show the equally useless SE-200 flying boat in the background......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Stargazer]

in this period France was just as bad as the UK for developing and/or building aircraft for which there was no customer, requirement or viable order book.

Yes... but aren't we glad they did, in retrospect? : Makes for a much more interesting history of aviation, don't you think?

 

[Caravellarella]

Definitely Stargazer2006, I'm very glad they did waste their time, money and effort on such beauties as the SE-1010; along with......

SNCASE SE-2010 Armagnac (my personal favourite).
SNCAC NC-211 Cormoran.
Bréguet Br.500 Colmar.
SNCASO SO-30R Bellatrix & SO-30P Bretagne.
Bréguet 941 & 941S.

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Jemiba]

Well, I'm thankful for those designs, too !
Thank you, Terry, for giving the exact source, from the scans I've got, it wasn't
recognisable. Based on Cunys "Les Avions De Combat Francais" I've made a drawing
of the 1020, quite a long time ago, sorry for the quality.

 

[flying-finn]

Dear Terry (Caravellarella), is there anything you don't know about french aviation?
Anyway, thank you all for good additions on the subject!
Dear Jemiba, your drawing is very nice

 

[Caravellarella]

Hah, thank you Flying-Finn! ;D

I actually know very little about French aircraft; I just like certain ones and that's it.

The only thing I know anything about is publishing contracts really :-[

Oh and Chinese cooking......

Best, Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[Stargazer]

Dear Terry (Caravellarella), is there anything you don't know about french aviation?

I was wondering exactly the same thing! This Frenchman here is brought to shame to see a Briton knowing so much more about French national aviation than he does! LOL

 

[flying-finn]

Hello, my dear fans of french secret projects!!

I am going to ask you one question about another SNCASE "secret" project. I don't want to start a new topic. Working with french sources, i am found some words about SNCASE SE-1000, the four-engined plane.

According to Flight, it was a project of mid-wing monoplane with wing span of 99 ft., powered with four Gnome-Rhones engines and with estimated sped of about 350 mph at 29,000 ft.

There were 4 versions of the aircraft:
1) high sped high altitude courier;
2) long range version for 4 passengers;
3) another version for 8 passengers;
4) yet another for 10 passengers for continental operations.

So my question is very simple ( ): does anybody have any 3-view drawing of it or, maybe, side view??
And some more information about it will be desirable.
Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[Caravellarella]

Dear Flying-Finn, the SE-1000 you mention is in fact the SE-1001 illustrated earlier in this correspondence......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[flying-finn]

Dear Terry (Caravellarella), thank you for explanation!! All things seems to be more or less clear now
Let me ask you about your words "...I've seen of the SE-1010 under construction show the equally useless SE-200 flying boat in the background..." Is it real for all of us to see that beautiful photos?? I'll be very thankful to you for them!

 

[hesham]

From Le Fana 213.

 

[taildragger]

in this period France was just as bad as the UK for developing and/or building aircraft for which there was no customer, requirement or viable order book.

Yes... but aren't we glad they did, in retrospect? : Makes for a much more interesting history of aviation, don't you think?

The French, in particular, seemed during this period to pursue a great many projects that had little hope of producing useful products. I suspect that this was not a matter of poor judgement but a need to:
- reassemble and provide work/experience for design teams whose technical skills were 4-5 years behind those of the UK, USA and USSR.
- take maximum advantage of the Marshall Plan and MDAP programs from the USA
By contrast, the British white elephants of this period were mostly commercial projects (Tudor, Princess, Brabizon) and seemed to be more clearly intended to develop into production programs, but the planners lacked a good understanding of their intended markets.

 

[hesham]

SE-1030 & SE-1035 - High Speed Stratospheric airliners from 1947 with a more conventional larger diameter airliner fuselage design.

From Decollage 12/1946,

the SNCASE SE.1030 artist drawing.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/spy/se1010/

 

[Grey Havoc]

SNCASE SE.1010: Aiming way too high.

This smooth four-engined beauty started its life in 1945 with a stratospheric transatlantic postal aircraft project, the SE.1000. That was the time of France’s hasty technological catching up…

elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com

 

[Tonton-42]

I give you here the scan of the board made by Joël Mesnard for the deceased "Moniteur de l'aéronautique" in his number 16 ...

 

[southwestforests]

Dear Terry (Caravellarella), thank you for explanation!! All things seems to be more or less clear now
Let me ask you about your words "...I've seen of the SE-1010 under construction show the equally useless SE-200 flying boat in the background..." Is it real for all of us to see that beautiful photos?? I'll be very thankful to you for them!

Even though I'm not them and it's not even the same decade any more, I just stumbled across a website which has that photo,

SNCASE SE-1010 Photo-Survey Aircraft - Destination's Journey

Photographs of the SNCASE SE-1010 a French photo-survey aircraft which first flew on 24 November 1948, A fatal crash saw the project cancelled

www.destinationsjourney.com

Third image down.

 

[Silencer1]

Third image down.

Thanks for sharing! This blog contains nice selection of historical aircraft' photos. However, sources of images never mentioned. I wonder, if blog' owner also own all these images

 

[Foo Fighter]

I have searched around but have not found out what caused the said flat spin, any pointers?

 

[Silencer1]

I have searched around but have not found out what caused the said flat spin, any pointers?

I noted, that this aircraft has very unusual ailerons. Their size, shape and location obviously comes from the exotic prewar prototype, SE-100. Perhaps, they caused improper flight behaviour?

 

[southwestforests]

I have searched around but have not found out what caused the said flat spin, any pointers?

Found this a bit earlier today,

Aviation Historian 25

The SE. 1010 photographed from the LeO 453 accompanying it on its ill-fated last flight, on October 1, 1949. Shortly after this was taken, the pair separated and the SE.1010 undertook asymmetric power tests. The tragic result was a flat spin into a vineyard. Note the taller revised fin.

That same thing about blogs giving photo sources applies.
Blog provides the above.
Blog shows no discernible footnotes on my screen.

But it does have nice detail image of odd aileron style on this page,

Sud-Est SE.1010

 

[southwestforests]

And then there is, http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Arts/Art33127.htm

According to British weekly Flight, the type “contrasted with the more corpulent transports”present; the magazine also noted its Mercier ailerons, “the effectiveness of which was convincingly demonstrated by large roll-angles without visible trace of slewing or directional deviation”.

 

[PhR]

From Decollage 12/1946,

the SNCASE SE.1030 artist drawing.

Another view of SE.1030 from Interavia:

 

[PhR]

SE.1010 was started in 1941 as SE.015.

 

[PhR]

The production SE-1011 aircraft differed in these aspects......

1. Bristol Hercules engines.
2. A taller tail-fin.
3. Twin high-aspect ratio out-rigger tail-fins (this aircraft had a very short tail-moment which probaby led to the loss of the prototype).
4. Conventional ailerons.
5. Longer chord trailing-edge flaps.
6. A differently glazed nose with B-29 (or nazi german bomber) style multiple panels.

Construction of the 3 production SE-1011s was abandoned by the end of 1950.

SE.1011 manufacturing started at Marignane:

 

[PhR]

And to be complete: the SE.1000!