SNCASE (Sud-Est Aviation) Projects

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCASE SE X-106 and X-107 :supersonic intercopter projects.
SE X-108 :mixed powered research aircraft ,project only.
SE-2450 : last development of Grognard fighter.
SE-2060 :engined test bed aircraft of SE-2010 transport aircraft.
SE-6000 :supersonic intercopter project.

 

[Jemiba]

For the SE.6000, I drew a blank. It isn't mentioned in Cunys "Les Avions De Combat .." and
not in my other sources, any additional information would be most welcome .

According to Cuny, both the X-106 and the X-107 were designed as subsonic/transsonic
fighter bombers.

The SE.2450 was a design of a heavy fighter bomber/ attack a/c,, but as it seems not in direct
lineage with the Grognard. There were to similar designs, differing mainly in hte engine
installation, one of htem was the SE.2450, the other the SE.1400.

 

[Jemiba]

Again according to the "Cunys bible" (anyone who knows another comparable book
about the french postwar aviation ?) the SE. X-108 was intended to be used as an
ocean surveillance /ASW a/c. Several different engine layouts were planned, as was
with the Latécoère 221 to 227 series.
(Especially the drawing of the X-108A should be viewed with some scepticism, as I
had only the drawings of hte J-/BR-version and the written description !)

 

[Jemiba]

And the SE.2060 was just the well known SE.2010 transport with two underslung
jet engines of varying types, ATAR or the TF-106, for example.
Not th right stuff for this forum, I'm afraid

 

[Jemiba]

Hello Hesham,

I've looked again for the SE.6000, but without success. There are of course cases of the use of one designation number for two types, but this is quite rare. And there are numerous "sources", which don't bother if it is SNCASE or SNCASO. It's just one different letter, who cares ? And in the enthusiasm of the beginning jet age, many new aircraft were credited with the ability to reach the speed of sound, although in fact they just could reach their critical mach number, not quite the same.
So it would be very good, if you could name your sources, it would make it easier to decide, if a mentioned project is really an unknown one, or just a gimmick of a magazine or newspaper, mentioned in three lines between the weather report and the funnies .... For example, it's really funny, what you sometimes can read in the german daily press about the Eurofighter Typhoon !

 

[hesham]

Dear Jemiba,

I will try to remember from any site I got the SE-6000.
but do you have a drawings to these projects:
SE X-222 :supersonic delta wing intercopter.
SE X-223 :supersonic delta wing bomber.
SE X-224 :supersonic delta wing bomber.

 

[Jemiba]

The X-223 series was, what we nowadays would call drones (avions robot) ,
designed as single or twin engined types.
The X-224, I think, already was mentioned in a thread about the Mirage IV com-
petitors.
All drawings based on Cuny.

 

[Antonio]

Aviation Magazine Num 768 (15-XII-79)

SNCASE SE-600
1941
Civil light aircraft It was a design derivated from SE-100 fighter configuration.

Engine: Béarn 6D 420 hp
Span: 11 m
Lenght: 9.25 m

 

[hesham]

Dear Pometablava,

but in http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/sncase.pdf
they mentioned that SNCASE SE.600 was two seat reconnaissance
aircraft developed from SE.100 fighter.

 

[Jemiba]

" ...SE.600 was two seat reconnaissance
aircraft developed from SE.100 fighter."

Sorry, I can't find any mentioning of the SE.100 in the lines about the SE.600 there.
It's described as a light single engined (!) reconnaissance a/c. Maybe the "civil" SE.600
was a later attempt to get approval for further development.

 

[hesham]

Yes starviking,

I think so.

SNCASE SE-X-109 :was single seat delta wing interceptor project,
powered by one Rolls-Royce Nene engine.
SNCASE SE-X-114 :was single seat delta wing interceptor project
of 1953,powered by two turbojet engines.

 

[Petrus]

Dear Hesham,

I have some questions regarding the SNCASE X-114 project:

1. What engines was the X-114 to have? Do you have any idea whether there was a rocket-engine planned for the aircraft, as was en vogue in French interceptor projects of the 1950s?

2. How were the X-114's dimensions? In the picture that you have posted there is a scale; does it equal to five meters?

And finally, why do you use the word 'intercopter' instead of 'interceptor' (or intercepter)?

Best regards,
Piotr

 

[hesham]

Hi Petrus,

for my english,sorry it was not perfect,and for X-114 I don't
know the engines,and the Dimensions.

 

[Jemiba]

The scale given in Cunys books are always good old metres. And the text says,
the X-114 would have been an extremely small aircraft of 8,80m lenght and
5,32m span.

 

[Deltafan]

Hi

In "LES AVIONS DE COMBAT FRANCAIS 1944-1960 " I : CHASSE-ASSAUT (J. Cuny, 1988, Col. Docavia, Ed. Larivière) (p.121) :

Jet engines for X-114 : only possible for jet engines such as "Viper" and "Farandole".

Ad :
For Viper I found the little Armstrong Siddeley Viper jet of 1750 Ib thrust for the first prototype of the Jet Provost (first flew in the summer of 1954)
For Farandole I found that this jet engine was an evolution of the Viper 10 and the max thrust trials was 1410 kgp in 1956 (cancelled in 1959)


Regards

 

[hesham]

Thanks my dears Jemiba and Deltafan,

SNCASE SE-X-207A :was single seat supersonic interceptor project,
powered by one Rolls-Royce Nene engine,estimated
speed 1.3 Mach and the lenght 14m.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCASE SE-X-207C :was single seat interceptor project,seemed to
tailless configuration,powered by two rocket
engined,estimated speed was 1.3 Mach and
wing tip.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCASE SE-X-207S :was new design as supersonic interceptor
with small delta wing and powered by one
Stato turbojet engine and had an estimated
speed 1.3 Mach and it was look like Leduc
design.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCASE SE-X-207R :was single seat low-mid wing interceptor
project,powered by one Rolls-Royce Nene turbojet engine,it had
swept wing and estimated speed .90 Mach.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCASE SE-X-207 Atar: was single seat interceptor project,but with Atar
engine and the air intake in the nose,there were also some projects based
on X-207.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCASE SE-X-106 :was single seat fighter resemeble the SE 2410-2415 Grognard
in configuration,it had two cannon (30mm) and powered by one Atar 101B turbojet,
it was designed in three versions;
A1 A2 B
Span 12.68m 13.58m 14.15m
Lenght 15.80m 16.50m 17.00m
Estimated
Speed 1030 1000 980 (km/h)

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCASE SE-X-107 :was single seat tailless jet fighter project,
powered by two Atar 101 engines,and was designed in two
versions;
A B
Span 14.00m 15.20m
Lenght 13.40m 13.40m
Estimated
Speed 1055 1020 (km/h)

 

[hesham]

My dear Jemiba,

You sent to this topic the SNCASE SE X.108 as ASW aircraft,
but in the Internet I found that the SE X.108 was mixed powered
interceptor project,I can't explain this.

 

[Jemiba]

Mixed power is correct, at least for some proposed versions of the
SE. X.108, which would have had additional jet engines in the after
part of the inner engine nacelles.
But interceptor probably isn't correct, as long, as we believe in the
pope of the french aviation history.
(Jean Cuny, "Les Avion De Combat Francais", volume 2, pages 181/182)

 

[hesham]

My dear Jemiba,

In hydroretro site they mentioned it as mixed powered
inerceptor,in the list of interceptor projects.

 

[Jemiba]

You probably mean this site : http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/sncase.pdf
If so, plesae have a look at page 28, there the X-108 is mentioned as "Avion de haute
mer propulsion mixte", in english, sea surveillance a/c with mixed power propulsion !
The lines before and behind mentiones the X-107 and X-108, both interceptors, but
not the X-108 ....
In pdf files, you can adjust magnification either by clicking the plus or minus button
besides the scale, given in %, or by clicking on the magnifying glass. maybe important,
as pdfs are often opned with just 75 %, quite difficult to read . ;D

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the SNCASE aircraft projects have no end,the SE-1001 was long range
mail carrier aircraft and SE-3010 and SE-3100 was experimental helicopter
projects,do you hear about SNCASE X-121 ?.

 

[fightingirish]

Sud-Est Grognard cutaway

 

[Sundog]

That's outstanding, thanks.

 

[fightingirish]

Article (in German): Sud-Est Grognard - Klassiker der Luftfahrt, August 2012
Six awesome pictures from Benichou's collection.

 

[circle-5]

Manufacturer's trade-show model of the SNCASE 2410 Grognard, from about 1950. This one came from a small collection in the Oregon countryside, of all places.

 

[hesham]

Nice Model my dear Circle-5

 

[hesham]

The SNCASE X-115.

(from Jean Cuny "Les Avions De Combat Francais", volume II, Docavia)
Please, ALWAYS mention your sources !

 

[cheaptrotte]

Hi

Sud-Ouest SO-1310 Farfadet. Little "convertible" because mi-autogire system. So tracted by Turbumeca Artouste II +/- 280 chevaux and principale rotor the propulsor Turbomeca Arrius.

My English bad? No! I'm Yoda here easier for you with website : http://prototypes.free.fr/vtol/vtol-10.htm


Without big budget they were original for a small country out of war. I like the Sud Ouest.

Good week for all

 

[cluttonfred]

That link isn't working for me at all.

 

[Stargazer]

That link isn't working for me at all.

Strange... It's working fine for me.

 

[hesham]

From Le Fana 323 & 324,

here is a drawing to SNCASE SE.3100 helicopter Project,also the original drawing to SE.3110,and a msll
Info about SE.3111 Project.

 

[hesham]

From Le Fana 312,

the SNCASE SA.3220 and SA.3230 was a developed Projects from SA.3210
Super Frelon helicopter,if someone has a drawings to them ?.

 

[hesham]

From le Fana 445.