SNCAC (Aérocentre) projects

[hesham]

Hi, I found anther project for a jet bomber designed before the SNCAC NC-270 it was
the SNCAC NC-200.

 

[Archibald]

Don't know this one (you learn something everyday here!) but here's the NC-270 (from Prototypes.com)

 

[hesham]

I am sorry,I will correct my mistake,
the projects of bombers before the SNCAC were : SNCAC NC-200 and SNASO SO-71
long range heavy bombers; and anther project from Breguet ,the Br-780 bomber.

 

[Archibald]

do you have any drawings of these planes? were they piston-powered or jet-powered?

 

[hesham]

I don't have any drawings ,but I think they were a jet aircraft.

 

[hesham]

in Airplane Five-View magazine :

- SNCAC NC-1150B4-01.
I suggest that was a business jet aircraft and was mention in anther topic under Nord aircraft.

 

[Jemiba]

Looking very antiquated, the concept of the 3-engined transport wasn't absolutely
dead after WW II, as can be seen by the Northrop -23/25.
Here it was SNCAC, using again this old formula for the NC.300.
Some data : 3 Wasp Junior engines, max.speed 265 km/h, range with 2000kg payload
1000 km, with 2500kg 500 km, take-off run approx.500m to clear a 20m obstacle.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCAC NC-110 :four engined high altitude bomber.

NOTE: this is an early (pre-1945 project) added here for easier reference.

 

[Jemiba]

SNCAC NC.858 :NC.853 conversion with 90 hp Cont C.90-12F engine.
SNCAC NC.859 :glider towing NC.853 with 105 hp Walter Minor 4-IIIW
engine.
.. and then the SNCAC types and to add a lesser known one-off example,
there's the twin engined derivative of the 850 series, the NC.860 :

 

[hesham]

also from my dear Jemiba:
SNCAC NC.260 :was a project for jet inercopter powered by Turbomeca engine.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCAC NC.160 :was twin engined single seat fighter project
of orthodox design,and powered by two Hispano-Suiza 12 Z
engine and estimated speed 815km/h.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

SNCAC NC.200 :was derivative from bomber design as twin
engined two seat fighter project,powered by two Gnome-Rhone
14 R piston engine and it has span 22m and length 18.50m.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the SNCAC NC.260,I spoke about it before,it was single seat
jet fighter,and SNCASO SO.6010 project of single seat jet
fighter ,it had estimated speed 900 km/h and 10000m altitude
but it was not built in favour of SNCASO SO.6020.

 

[Apophenia]

Thanks Jens. Great stuff!

The NC 110 looks nothing like what William Green descibed. The wing planform resembles the NC 223 series but not the empennage or engine arrangement.

[Apologies, I was confusing the NC 140 for the NC 110.]

The NC 110 appears to have twin engines driving contraprops. Did AFM give any powerplant details? Might the NC 110 have had a tandem-engine arrangement along the lines of the Laté 299A conversion? There doesn't seem to be room but this looks like a lot of airframe for just two engines of the day.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

has anyone a 3-view to SNCAC NC.1090 naval fighter aircraft ?.

 

[Retrofit]

Hesham,
I only find a 3V of the SNCAC NC-1080 naval fighter prototype. But unfortunatly nothing on the NC-1090.
So just in case.

From "Les avions de combat francais 1944-1960" Jean Cuny Volume 1 "Chasse-Assault", Collection Docavia Editions Lariviere 1988

 

[hesham]

Thank you Retrofit.

 

[Caravellarella]

Hello, would anyone be able to recommend a source for images of the S.N.C.A.C NC.110 at all? I've always wondered what this design would have looked like (the Farman/S.N.C.A.C NC.223 series are a personal favourite). I agree with Apophenia that a mélange of NC.223.4 and NC.150 is easy to visualise, but an image would be wonderful to see. I wonder if I can modify one of my Azur 1/72 Farman 223 kits to make a NC.110?

For the striking Bréguet Br.482, I recommend Le Fana de l'Aviation, No. 339; February 1998. Pages 14 to 23 by Philippe Ricco & Jean Lacroze.

For the more awkward looking S.N.C.A.O CAO-700, I recommend.........

Air Magazine, No. 34; October/November 2006. Pages 4 to 11 by José Fernandez; with a 4-view colour profile (this French publisher has also co-produced a spectacular, but expensive 1/72 resin kit of the CAO-700).
Aéro Journal, No. 17; February/March 2001. Pages 38 to 43, by Philippe Ricco.

The CAO-700 is derived from the wonderfully outlandish Loire-Nieuport LN.10 seaplane; surely deserving of a new thread?
http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=1074&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=837

All best wishes, Terry, (Caravellarella).

 

[Apophenia]

Hello, would anyone be able to recommend a source for images of the S.N.C.A.C NC.110 at all?

As Jemiba mentioned earlier, there was am NC-110 piece in the Aug./Sept. 2005 edition of Aviation Francais Magazine.

AFM n°5 (Août/Septembre 2005), p37 (SNCAC NC-110 monograph by Philippe Ricco).

I started work on an NC-110 image but, par for the course, got sidetracked ...

 

[Caravellarella]

My apologies Apophenia; my confusion, my typo. I really should have typed S.N.C.A.C NC.140 instead. An image of the NC.140 would be wonderful to see; it does make me wonder how Aérocentre/Farman would have reconciled a braced high wing and the tandem-engine nacelles to a circular-section fuselage. Do you suppose the NC.140's pressure cabin was otherwise just pressure vessel embedded in a conventional fuselage? The same way Vickers did with their high altitude Wellington bomber?

All best wishes, Terry, (Caravellarella).

 

[Apophenia]

No worries Terry! Having already made my apologies for confusing the NC 140 for the NC 110, I'm in no position to comment :-[

As for the appearance of the NC 140, Green makes it sound like the entire, circular-section fuselage was pressurized. Pure speculation, but I'm envisioning something like an NC 223.4 with an elongated NC 150 fuselage. That's probably simplistic ... the NC 150's single-pilot cockpit would have to go at the very least.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is some pictures and drawings to SNCAC NC.150 bomber.

 

[toura]

Hi Hesham.
Interesting the NC 150.
First flight may 11.1939 2 Hispano engines +1 inside the fuselage for the
compressor
November 19.1939 new compressor and new flight- new tail (flight 32)
7000 meters hight- speed 470 km/h
january 2 1939 from Toussus le Noble to Orleans
March : Orleans- Marignane- Bourges : new engines.
proto n° 2 18 cm longer. (Bon de guerre if finished)
NC 151 hight altitude cabin
NC 152 and 153 perhaps pratt and whiney engines
We are in june 1940..............
Bye

 

[Caravellarella]

No worries Terry! Having already made my apologies for confusing the NC 140 for the NC 110, I'm in no position to comment :-[

As for the appearance of the NC 140, Green makes it sound like the entire, circular-section fuselage was pressurized. Pure speculation, but I'm envisioning something like an NC 223.4 with an elongated NC 150 fuselage. That's probably simplistic ... the NC 150's single-pilot cockpit would have to go at the very least.

Dear Apophenia, you are not going to believe this! I've just found an article in French with a 3-view drawing of the SNCAC NC.140 stratospheric bomber in the 15th September 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International. I had to look twice as I couldn't quite believe what I saw. As you suspected, the NC.140 is a blend of the NC.223.4 and the NC.150, but with a massively blended wing-root fairing and a small pressure-vessel type cockpit fairing......

Enjoy ;D......

Terry (Caravellarella)

 

[airman]

NC.140 it's new for me !

Interesting project !

 

[airman]

always about sncac 110

 

[hesham]

always about sncac 110

In your PDF Airman;


I find the SNCAC NC.100,what was this ?.

 

[Tophe]

Airman's link says "among unknown ones, nobody seems to remember what was the NC-100 looking like". So this remains a mystery, even for experts.

 

[airman]

Airman's link says "among unknown ones, nobody seems to remember what was the NC-100 looking like". So this remains a mystery, even for experts.

It's Sncac 110 :

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Tophe.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is the NC.280 & NC.281 Projects;

http://aerophile.over-blog.com/

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is the NC.290 Project;

http://aerophile.over-blog.com/

 

[Stargazer]

I have attempted to clean up the three-view arrangements of the NC 270, 271, 280, 281, 290 and 300 until we can find better quality scans:

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the early concepts for SNCAC NC.1080,and the final design.


http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/projet_PA28_et_avions_a_reaction_francais_embarques.pdf

 

[Jemiba]

Very interesting find indeed, but I need someone to explain the combination of the inlet and
the shown forward view. Would the air be guided by a glass plate into the bifurcated inlet tubes ?

 

[hesham]

In your PDF Airman;

I find the SNCAC NC.100,what was this ?.

Hi


here is a reference to NC.100 and NC.40.

 

[Petrus]

Hesham,
I only find a 3V of the SNCAC NC-1080 naval fighter prototype. But unfortunatly nothing on the NC-1090.
So just in case.

From "Les avions de combat francais 1944-1960" Jean Cuny Volume 1 "Chasse-Assault", Collection Docavia Editions Lariviere 1988

Each of the three desings that took part in the naval fighter competition (NC.1080, VG-90, Nord 2200) was to be armed with three 30-mm cannon. Do you have any idea what type of cannon was envisaged as their armament?
How were the guns to be installed in the fighters? My thinking is that there should be an assymetrical arrangement...

Piotr

 

[hesham]

My dear Petrus,


all of them are from Hispano-Suiza kind.

 

[Jemiba]

For the VG 90, the type is said to have been the HS 602 (Jean Cuny "Les Avion De Combat Francais",
Tome I, Docavia).
For the NC 1080, the installation would have been under the cockpit floor, so, due to wheel well
of the nose wheel, certainly an assymetrical arrangement would have been needed.
The VG 90 had the ammo boxes in the central wing, so the guns would have been there, too,
assymetrical again.
Couldn't find an exact location for the Nord 2200.
Neither of those prototypes was ever fitted with guns, AFAIK, but for all a change to four
20 mm guns was contemplated.

 

[Petrus]

Jemiba, thank you very much for your reply.

As for the NC-1080, I've taken a look at the document "Le projet PA 28 et les avions à ré-action français embarqués", which used to be available at http://www.hydroretro.net/ but it is not anymore (thankfully I downloaded it some time ago; if anybody would like to have it please send me a PM).
The document says: "La cabine pour deux hommes d’équipage doit être chauffée, étanche et dotée de respirateurs, blindée"... DEUX HOMMES means TWO MEN, so it suggests that the NC-1080 was (or was to be) a two-seater. On the other hand what may be seen in the pictures of the NC-1080 is a cockpit for apparently one man. Other contenders in the naval fighter competition (VG-90 and Nord 2200) looked similarily.
Elsewhere the document says that the naval fighter requirement to which the NC-1080, VG-90 and Nord 2200 were built foresaw a radar, which may correspond with the two-man crew arrangement.

All these pieces of information cause further doubts rather than certainty about the designs. Do you have any ideas how to clarify the doubts?