Shenyang J-15 "Flying Shark"

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Speculation is growing in Chinese forums over the possibility that Shenyang are designing a new J-13 naval fighter, possibly using technologies from their next generation fighter bid for J-14 which appears to have been rejected in favour of Chengdu's design.

Whether this is simply a Chinese version of the Su-33, or a new design, remains an open question. The normally fairly conservative Huitong's site has posted these images, which seem rather unlikely and quite different...

 

[fightingirish]

These pictures came out at the same time as the news source "Asahi Shimbun" reported that China will start construction of two 50-60,000 ton aircraft carrier this year.
Huitong's site also reports that some parts of J-13 such as landing gear have already been manufactured.
Deino has posted a picture of that ceremony in the German forum "Flugzeugforum".
But we must wait and see how the financial crisis will affect the Chinese carrier program.

 

[Deino]

But we must wait and see how the financial crisis will affect the Chinese carrier program.

But I think the most important part on that story is how the politics and esp. the military leaders decide on their priorities.

Regarding the "development" of a carrier-capable fighter its a story running thru the www since many years beginning with the rumour of a twin-engined, EF-look-alike J-10 version once called J-10B, followed by the more or less substantial report that China managed to acquire one of the Su-33 prototypes via the Ukrainian and the efforts to develop a version called J-11BJ.
Besides that there are repeated reports or better to say rumours that the original J-10B was actually once a real concept, which was later replaced by a more improved and semi-stealthy version … others say this was a derivate of the original CAC submission to the XXJ, which was at that time given to SAC, which also lost out to SAC’s more realistic approach to develop a Flanker-derived type. … But since then, the favours changed again, the XXJ was finally shifted again to CAC which should now develop this type in cooperation with SAC based on CAC’s design … and [rumour-modus on] the navy changed its mind to proceed with an all-new design and leave the Flanker-version. [rumour-modus off].

So long I would have said its much too early even to speculate … all types so far where more or less nice what-if-types with the J-11BJ maybe the most realistic one, but as Paul said Huitong is “normally fairly conservative” and very carefully in posting such things. On the other side he’s one of the best known and well respected guys in the Chinese forum-community – making him a really “Big shrimp” – so it seems these latest reports are much more substantial than anything before.

As far as I know by now, these latest reports were “initiated” after a Chinese newspaper (or online-magazine) reported of the delivery of the first landing gear … something no-one would have expected at this stage, so it means the project seems to have gained momentum and that it has proceeded a step further. These two pictures – which cause some wild speculation in some forums – are as far as I know are only examples shown in a TV-report of possible future types and a discussion about which direction the J-13 might take; nothing substantial.

Therefore … lets take a cup of coffee and wait.

Below, that was the picture “fightingirish” mentioned ….


Deino

 

[Deino]

A small and still not very claer update ohn the J-15-programme, as that fighter is now called.

J-15 is the first generation of Chinese shipborne fighter aircraft being developed by both 601 Institute and SAC for PLAN's first aircraft carrier. In the beginning there were rumors claiming that J-15 was a new semi-stealth design based on a similar but more advanced stealth design developed earlier by SAC/601 Institute to compete for the J-14 project (see below), but this design turned out to be a follow-on design. In order to save time and cut cost, the aircraft is now believed to be based on Russian Su-33 in terms of structural configuration and flight control system as well as domestic J-11B (see above) in terms of radar and weapon systems. Similar to Su-33, J-15 features a pair of small canard wings to improve its low speed handling and shortened tailcone to avoid tail-scrape during high AoA landing. Some key shipborne aircraft technologies such as landing/navigational systems are believed to have been obtained from Russia and Ukraine. One Su-33 prototype (T-10K-3) was acquired from Ukraine around 2001 and has been studied extensively. J-15 is believed to share many common components with J-11B, such as a similar radar, the same glass cockpit as well as the improved WS-10 turbofan engine. It can also fire a variety of Chinese designed weapons, including PL-8, PL-12 AAMs and YJ-83K AShM. Overall J-15 is believed to be in the same class of American F/A-18C. The first prototype has been undergoing assembly at SAC since 2008. J-15 is expected first to be stationed onboard the Varyag aircraft carrier currently being fitted in Dalian. The latest news suggested that the first prototype made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, powered initially by Russian AL-31F turbofan engines

http://cnair.top81.cn/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm

Quite interesting, the J-11B prototype no. 524 has been modified and just recently seen at the CFTE-airfield Xian-Yanliang, where also a new ramp has been added to the runway.


Deino

 

[TAKHISS]

Some new pics

 

[sferrin]

So if you take a Flanker and cross it with a Super Hornet what do you get?

 

[Deino]

Hmmm ... I won't take these Su-33/J-11B + SH-mixes too seriously ... but just from today, reportedly from the CFTE at Xian-Yanliang (which on the other side is quite confusing, since the 1. flight was made in Shenyang and not at Xian. ???)

Deino

 

[Deino]

Just recently found pictures ... reportedly from Wuhu !!

I think it's getting better and better ... and mire interesting. Here esp. the Flanker - not sure if it's only a full-scale mock-up with the YJ-83 ASM.

Deino

 

[Deino]

Sorry ... the title on the picture must be "Wuhan" not "Wuhu" .... all pictures seem to be from the "China Ship Design Institute" (no. 701) in Wuhan.

 

[Deino]

Upps ... correction again! These pictures posted above are actually at least one month old ... here are more recent ones !

Deino

 

[Deino]

MAybe that new stadion near it will help to locate it with Google-Earth !

Here's another picture from August 24. .... an impressive speed in building that thing.

 

[Grey Havoc]

MAybe that new station near it will help to locate it with Google-Earth !

Here's another picture from August 24. .... an impressive speed in building that thing.

They may have used some pre-fab/modular components.

 

[SOC]

I'll look around and see if I can figure out where it is. The best object to use in those images is the soccer field. They show up relatively well around Wuhan. If this is in fact near Wuhan, it won't be in the middle of the city, either. A little more information on where they take these pictures would be helpful, but isn't absolutely necessary.

 

[Matej]

Are they going to land on that roof?

 

[SOC]

Unlikely. This might be a cheap and simple way to figure out such things as on-deck operations and flow, and then train PLAN personnel. Or test the phased-array radars that they've left holes in the superstructure for.

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Are they going to land on that roof?

Hmm... wouldn't want to work in that building with Su-27s landing just above the ceiling

 

[Abraham Gubler]

Clearly it’s not a takeoff and landing dummy as the rear has windows where the ramp strike area is which would result in a major internal structural fire with a crash. Also no WOD makes it unlikely it would actual work. As for flight deck training without active aircraft there is little benefit.

It does however have lots of similarities with the Moorestown, NJ “Cruiser in a Cornfield” used to develop AEGIS and test each weapon system that comes off the production line. Though attention to the outer mould line of the rest of the ship is of minimal importance compared to getting the electronic top hamper laid out in an accurate manner. So this could be a Chinese effort to get the Sky Watch radar system to work.

Or it could just be a fun and funky building. It would not be the first mock aircraft carrier built in China.

 

[Thorvic]

Something interesting is that they have been stripping down the superstructure of Varyag this year. The last photo ihave seen show the just the the stuctuer upto the the bridge and the funnel, everything else has been removed.

Has it been removed to fit out this new building to train and develop systems and crew for the new carriers they intend to build ?. Or is it so they can create the island with chinese systems for back fitting into Varyag when development completed.

I suspect the aircraft are on deck to train crews in aircraft handling, although there is no hanger and deck edge lifts to teach that aspect of the job.

G

 

[Matej]

Thanks for the confirmations. So now I can say that no, it is not the most stupid idea ever. Usual way to make a virtual flight deck is to place it on the ground, where is a lot of space around when you miss the simulated landing area during the training. Every flight accident on that building can cause complete destruction of the plane and killing a few people inside it.

 

[Grey Havoc]

Thanks for the confirmations. So now I can say that no, it is not the most stupid idea ever. Usual way to make a virtual flight deck is to place it on the ground, where is a lot of space around when you miss the simulated landing area during the training. Every flight accident on that building can cause complete destruction of the plane and killing a few people inside it.

Just a (probably very) wild guess, but could it be meant in part for simulations using so-called 'Enhanced Reality' technology? For those not familar with the term, it's an area of technology akin to virtual reality, but where virtual objects are superimposed on a real world location and interact with actors i.e. real world people and other entities/ events.

It wouldn't be suprising if they had access to at least some level of 'ER' especially given their industrial and other spying efforts, not to mention the fact that a fair bit of the necessary tech isn't exactly classified in the first place, although custom designed and built systems would seem to be the best choice for simulating something like carrier ops. A major sticking point of course would be raw computing power, given the nature of 'ER' simulations and current available tech, it would most likely have to be onsite or physically pretty close by.

 

[SOC]

Well, the office/carrier has shown up on satellite imagery, so it isn't a total fabrication:

http://browse.digitalglobe.com/imagefinder/showBrowseMetadata?buffer=1.0&catalogId=101001000A099400&imageHeight=natres&imageWidth=natres

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

This is a brand new system integration lab built for the CSIC 701st Institute at Huangjia Lake development zone just south of Wuhan city, next to the Wuhan University of Science and Technology Huangjia Lake Campus, where some of the photos were taken.

http://www.china-defense.com/smf/index.php?topic=155.msg122748#msg122748

 

[Deino]

Well, the office/carrier has shown up on satellite imagery, so it isn't a total fabrication:

http://browse.digitalglobe.com/imagefinder/showBrowseMetadata?buffer=1.0&catalogId=101001000A099400&imageHeight=natres&imageWidth=natres

Ohhh ... YES, here it is !!! Thanks for posting that ling/image.

Deino

PS: Here's a comparison ....

 

[Scorpion82]

Isn't J-13 the chinese designation of the Su-30MKK?

 

[SOC]

J-13 would've possibly been a designator for a license built Su-30MKK.

The carrier thing is around 1,000 feet long, making it a full size mockup.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

next to the Wuhan University of Science and Technology Huangjia Lake Campus

Judging by its location and its complete impracticability to be used as an actual flight deck training system I would suggest that this is the Chinese version of the General Atomics Torrey Pines building now the home of the Torrey Pines Institute for Molecular Studies. When built in the 1950s this building was to replicate the size and shape of the future nuclear powered space ships that were planed at this time. The design was later *honoured/shamelessly stolen* by George Lucas for the Trade Federation space ship. So the staff and students of carrier systems studies at Wuhan can now house themselves in the shape they hope to build for the PLA-N.

http://www.tpims.org/overview_history.asp

 

[utahbob]

I am wondering what weight class and size this aircraft would be comparable to in the NATO/USAF inventory? F/A-18, F-22, F-15, Rafale, Typhoon or just an updated semi-stealthy, Chinese uber Flanker/Super Hornet mut.

TIA

 

[Deino]

Here are close-up pictures of that beast ...

http://war.news.163.com/photonew/00AQ0001/6762.html

Deino

 

[Deino]

Following the ongoing rumors about the J-15 - latest report says it just performed it's first ski-jump take off in Xian-Yanliang - there were also reports about the possibility that the PLA-NAF might get some J-11B in advance for the preparation.

These are aircraft at SAC on pre delivery !

Seems as if this rumoured second J-11B regiment will indeed go to the PLA-NAF as J-11BH ... and quite interesting, there seems to be also a trainer version ?? (or what do You think !)

Deino

PS: latest picture of the Ex-Varyag prior to the AESA-installations and reportedly in preparation to degaussing !

 

[Deino]

;D

 

[Deino]

???

 

[Deino]

Right in that moment ... seems confirmed !!!! ;D

 

[fightingirish]

Deino, can you report some details?
Are the differences between the J-15 and J-11/Su-27 airframe?
The last pictures suggests, that the J-15 might have a new wing and new leading edge root extensions.

 

[Deino]

Deino, can you report some details?
Are the differences between the J-15 and J-11/Su-27 airframe?
The last pictures suggests, that the J-15 might have a new wing and new leading edge root extensions.

Notyet ...regarding the "new leading edge root extensions" ...maybe,but we've seen a similar "thing" on earlierJ-11B-prototypes - seems to be part of the redesigned LERX ... mabey with new composite materials´.

With the wings, You may be right .... it was rumored since some time .... but IMO it looks o.k.

Deino

 

[Trident]

Great stuff, Deino! Judging by the first of your last three photos, I'd actually say it has canards, like its Russian archetype. Similar story with what can be discerned of the nose landing gear and the shortened tail cone, right now this looks like a straight Su-33 copy.

 

[lancer21]

Very interesting news , thanks for the update& pics Deino. I wonder what they censored in that first pic tho , maby its the illusive J-XX( or J-12, or whatever the name is )?

Oh speaking of names , is "J-15" confirmed as official designation for the chinese naval Flanker ?

Thanks.

 

[Deino]

Oh speaking of names , is "J-15" confirmed as official designation for the chinese naval Flanker ?
....

I don't think that this is a XXJ or J-12 prototype ... too much wishfull thinking ! ;D

ANd reg. the designation, I don't know, but there was one report in a CHinese newspaper stating the delivery of China's first naval-fighter called J-15.

Mabe new picture ...

Deino

 

[fightingirish]

Maybe new picture ...

No, unfortunately that picture is fake. It only shows a PS-ed Su-33.
It seems, that it was first posted at the website "sinous.net" on March 27th, 2010.
Link: http://www.sinous.net/2010/03/chinas-j15-for-carrier/

 

[Deino]

Maybe new picture ...

No, unfortunately that picture is fake. It only shows a PS-ed Su-33.
It seems, that it was first posted at the website "sinous.net" on March 27th, 2010.
Link: http://www.sinous.net/2010/03/chinas-j15-for-carrier/

Confirmed fake ??

IMO - even if I'm not sure too - it shows a yellow prototype with the never seen before grey radome.

And to say the hook is psed ... I think the picture is too blurred !

But I agree with You ... there seems something to be strange, but hopefully we will receive clearer pictures within the next days. When we saw that "strange yellow thing" on the first set ot pictures some were also claiming it to be a fake ... and two days later the better ones came out.

Deino

 

[Deino]

;D ... edit: now

Hmmm ..
I'm no longer sure if this is the J-15 ... looks identical to this MKI !!