Shenyang / Chengdu 6th Gen Demonstrators?

Josh_TN said:
The vast majority of the U.S. public has no understanding or concern over foreign policy in general or China in particular. They may feel China is antagonistic, depending on their media sources, while at the same time not being able to find it on a map. Any air power trends by either side is meaningless to >90% of the population, probably closer to 95+.

Any messaging is between politicians.
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I would like to have the time to disagree, somewhat, on the picture you paint of the US layman opinion. The fact that we have today irrational debates around the F-35 and A-10 is a sign that 95% of the population aren't not participants.

But let's focus on the other idea that a public campaign can not actionate into US military decisions.
By targeting the press, who is the one lifting that story to the world public, Chinese military permeate essentially the US media that, it has been proved, alters and can structure the narrative of the incoming administration.
 
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TomcatViP said:
By targeting the press, who is the one lifting that story to the world public, Chinese military permeate essentially the US media that, it has been proved, alters and structures the narrative of the incoming administration.
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So the PRC showing off publicly these two new aircraft (IMO demonstrators not prototypes) claiming they're sixth generation is their way of saying "China stronk!"
 
TomcatViP said:
@NMaude : More to push a new administration into taking a spectacular decision that would have a long lasting detrimental effect to have a semblant of regaining the initiative (think F-22).
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That's a distinct possibility given who's about to be sworn in to the Oval Office January 20th.
 
TomcatViP said:
@NMaude : More to push a new administration into taking a spectacular decision that would have a long lasting detrimental effect to have a semblant of regaining the initiative (think F-22).
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F-15/22 could be used to gain initiative against SU.
I.e. peer, lagging behind in electronics and concepts, but compensates through assymetrical fighting concept and sheer might.

Against China it currently doesn't work.
It's an increasingly symmetrical opponent, and above all else - electronic peer.

It doesn't leave much chance to silver bullet solutions. Only concepts remain.
Big NGAD wasn't really such a switch from what can be guessed. The concept switch is the smaller ngad.

Which does have a potential to sway equation in American favour, much more than is commonly attributed to it(as it's treated as almost an unwanted, insufficiently cool child).
 
I think people are over thinking things. The reveal of the new aircraft, whether you want to call them 6th gen or not (I am if only for temporal reasons) is just sending a basic warning/message of China’s capabilities, as is routinely done during new U.S. administrations or diplomatic visits (eg J20 first flight). Trying to calibrate a more exact message, have it properly received, and then also intending for a specific response is a fools errand. It seems unrealistic in the extreme that the PRC is attempting to achieve a specific outcome.
 
Tomboy said:
Potentially, it is possible the true "36001" technology demonstrator and what came after were shipped to be assembled far north in the remote regions to be tested secretly. Then they had the 36011 built and tested at the CAC facility in Chengdu as an "unofficial" reveal, from what I heard from some PLA watchers was that on the 26th there were viewing stands setup inside the airfield most likely for PLA top brasses and government officials, so it could be an internal demonstration of the new aircraft which makes sense since you probably wouldn't wanna show off a half finished technology demonstrator to those people and instead show them a more complete prototype instead.
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Quite unlikely as they need proper support facility for concept planes/prototypes, which are expected to be handled with extra care. Those remote region test area of the old days were being consumed with urban crawl.
 
Blitzo said:
Y'all know there are a few PLA watchers here who probably understand the PRC domestic politics and PLA reveal cycle and psychology pretty well, right?
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The reveal cycle is being 'revised/modernized' with the current administration, which they tried to change everything from numbering to new formations of units (not necessarily mean better or useful...), and it would be better to be cautious on the development
 
SK2 said:
Quite unlikely as they need proper support facility for concept planes/prototypes, which are expected to be handled with extra care. Those remote region test area of the old days were being consumed with urban crawl.
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I mean not really, China has couple of pretty big military airfields in the middle of the country where it is sparsely populated and also the desert regions where its basically no mans land. If they want they could easily pack the support equipment/personnel along with the disassembled aircraft itself in a couple of Y-20s and ship them there.
 
publiusr said:
Exhaust products as control surfaces?
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I was thinking of that as well - I never really understood the mock-up - but the idea of using a third engine for generating more power for radar/systems and generating gas for fluidic control (and as a source of redundancy) makes sense... if you have the exhaust vent to the rear you can even use it as a more efficient form of thrust augmentation than an afterburner would be. I've thought about similar things, but mainly using much smaller jets (e.g. a pair of simpler micro-jets).
 
I wonder, in view of the overall design, how does a dedicated genset compares to a lift fan coupled genset driven by the main engines. Recall the SDLF was advertised to power laser modules etc.
 
Some talented soul took the initiative and made a workable J-36 for SimplePlanes, everything on it is modeled fairly well, from cockpit to engines and so on.
 

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yeetmahboi said:
I wonder, in view of the overall design, how does a dedicated genset compares to a lift fan coupled genset driven by the main engines. Recall the SDLF was advertised to power laser modules etc.
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I'd say having a 3rd engine as a dedicated power generator in light of high-frequency radars (plural) and potential laser weapons is a more plausible case than it being needed for achieving flight parameters.
 
Tomboy said:
But wouldn't that cause some issue with thermal signatures since it'll have hot exhaust spewing out all over the aircraft?
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I really wouldn't know. It is a large aircraft so cooling (especially at higher altitude) might not necessarily be an issue? I am more of the opinion that the third engine is dedicated to power generation but who knows, Chines are practical and pragmatic. If they see another use for it why not?
 
Avimimus said:
I was thinking of that as well - I never really understood the mock-up - but the idea of using a third engine for generating more power for radar/systems and generating gas for fluidic control (and as a source of redundancy) makes sense... if you have the exhaust vent to the rear you can even use it as a more efficient form of thrust augmentation than an afterburner would be. I've thought about similar things, but mainly using much smaller jets (e.g. a pair of simpler micro-jets).
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If they are really using the 3rd engine for power generation, and I doubt it, there would not be enough thrust coming from the engine to move it on the ramp. Most of the energy will be extracted by the power turbine. The real answer is usually the simplest answer. The engineers did not have an engine that, as a pair, had sufficient thrust to meet the mission. As a result, add number three. Not the ideal answer, but probably the simplest.
 
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It seems perfectly reasonable to me that “J-36” would need three engines for any decent high speed performance if J-20 already requires two. There still would likely be extra electrical power production associated with a three engines propulsion arrangement, but the main landing gear clearly indicates a very heavy MTOW and from what I understand delta wing configurations do not lend themselves to short take off runs as it is.

Simplest answer: off the shelf engines from the J-20 are being used to achieve necessary thrust because no engine that can support the requirements in a twin configuration exists. Given the protracted development of various PLAAF engine projects (Russian engines were initially used on Y-20, J-20, and H-6K and still are on the latter AFAIK), this seems perfectly reasonable. As posted above, it is unusual and comes with some maintenance complexity but makes for a simple and immediate solution for desired thrust levels.
 
BullpupRafale said:
When people want to see aftermath of Iranian ballistic missile strike on Israel as too Russian on Ukraine the Oreshnik event.
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I had no issue getting satellite imagery of the Iranian missile strikes. None of the images I got were censored.
 

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