Shenyang / Chengdu 6th Gen Demonstrators?

What technology are you talking about ? for instance we don't see a lot in the air , the B-21, is a b-2 2.0 and not able to fry every thing in the air , so I don't see what technology, there was the SR-72 project but it is nowhere since the public show in 2013 and surely not in the sky.This time China make a big slam at every Air Force in the world, for the Europe totaly out of the game for the decades who come. Saddly I prefered that it was a USAF NGAD we saw the 26/12 instead of a China one, but it is not.
In regards to my post, I was primarily referring surface OML coating, shaping is shaping and everyone now knows about planform alignment, no mysteries there. Take a good close look at the B-21 surface finish in some of the early, hi-res images and it is not smooth at all, kind of course and almost alien looking (look at the patterns in all aspects), goes against the norm of having the smoothest surface as much as possible with no surface discontinuities and compare this with the B-2 and other platforms, big difference. This is where NG has evolved the B-21 over the B-2 which I feel is true 6th gen, again, decades of evolution. I also assume the composite structural matrix in regards to materials formulation has evolved as well in order to make the B-21 very, very LO in regards to radar as well as infrared, acoustics, visuals, EW as well.
 
I would say that the people who think that "stealth is the pinnacle of aircraft technology" are probably also the people who ascribe almost magical properties to radar absorbing materials that defy the laws of physics.

Stealth is important. Anything that makes it harder for an adversary to shoot at and hit your aircraft is a good thing.
It's also very misunderstood. Without appropriate tactics it's useless. The investment required to get the engineering of even "tried and true shapes" is not insignificant. And it is very easy to screw up so badly that your "VLO" design ends up being a max-signature design (like the A-12 and many others).

For example, a (hypothetical) aircraft may have what appear to be many "stealth" design features visible. But they don't work in isolation. Maybe the aircraft has super-stealth serrations on its landing gear doors, but then it doesn't have any treatment on the canopy and canopy frame. All this effort to "stealth" one thing, that makes no sense unless they do this other thing, which they didn't. There is a lot of that out there.
You are correct, a truly survivable platform is a combination of many things. VLO for radar is just one of many things and there is no "invincible platforms, just the way it goes. You can strive for that if you are willing to fund the R&D to get there and in some cases during combat, do you really need to be there, i.e. fighter jets?
 
the B-21, is a b-2 2.0
An absolute infantile statement. If B-21 only carries the avionic suite of f-35 it would be a completely different beast to b-2. I suggest you go research on f-35's avionics. And I expect it to be much more advanced than that given its development time frame.

The fact that it has some sort of mythical range even though smaller than b-2 speaks to a generational advancement in aerodynamics, engine tech, material science.
 
I was thinking if the J-36 qualifies as a true sixth gen. My practical definition for a 6th gen aircraft is one that can decisively win engagements against 5th gen aircrafts, let's say an F-35. Since we don't know anything about the J-36, I'd like to share my assumptions and thought process, wonder what others think about it:
  1. An F15EX can detect an aircraft with an RCS of 1sqm from about 250km. The F-35 has an RCS of 0.001 sqm, bringing down the detection range to about 45km (Lets assume the F35 has a similarly capable radar)
  2. The J-36, while giant, is still too small to carry an L or UHF-band radar, the stuff AWACS, like the Hawkeye carries that allegedly has anti-stealth capabilities
  3. Due to the sheer size of the aircraft, I don't think it's X-band RCS is much smaller than that of the F-35s. It still has much better all-aspect stealth and substantially lower RCS in the L and UHF-bands
  4. Let's assume the J-36's radar is 4 times as powerful and has twice the area (to have nice and neat detection numbers), which would mean it has roughly double the detection range, so about 90km, which is likely still within the kill range of the AIM120D, if we consider that the J-36 can't really manuever that well.
This all signals to me, that the J-36 can't really dominate (let alone detect) the F-35 in a head-on engagement, with the scenario resulting in a mutual kill. Things change very much if the J-36 has the ability to sneak up on the F-35 and catch it from a bad angle. If we change the number such that the J-36 can reliably track the F-35 from 150km, then it can kill it with impunity.
Even if we go back to the 90km detection range, it's possible that the J-36 can dictate the terms of the engagement to such a degree that the F-35 is bound to lose, I have no idea about this stuff.

Based on all this, I'd predict the F-35 is still a dangerous opponent to the J-36, and it requires careful planning, as well as the presence of other assets, like L or UHF band AWACS for the J-36 to achieve total dominance. It's very different from a 4th gen vs 5th gen fight, where an 5th gen can safely create a huge buffer zone for itself where it's virtually untouchable.
 
For starters B-2 carries PESA radar. There is probably multiple generation gap between the radar/avionics on B-2 vs B-21. I think MiG-25 vs Mig-31 would be a good analogy.
I seem to recall they updated it to an AESA.

"The B-2 RMP features an Active Electronically Scanned Array radar operating on a new frequency. The RMP replaces the B-2 legacy radar antenna and transmitter and changes radar operating frequency to avoid conflicts with other radio frequency spectrum users. The RMP does not add additional capabilities to the B-2 radar beyond those in the legacy system."


Also,

 
The J-36, while giant, is still too small to carry an L or UHF-band radar, the stuff AWACS, like the Hawkeye carries that allegedly has anti-stealth capabilities

Low frequency radars are *said* to have "anti stealth capabilities" because their wavelengths are large in comparison to the electrical size of the target. For example, a 300mhz UHF radar has a wavelength of 1m. For shaping of an aircraft to be *most* effective the tailored scattering sources should be more than X times the wavelength in size (where X is a number larger than 10). The smaller those tailored scattering sources are compared to X times the wavelength the less effective the shaping is, and the radar basically sees the volume of the object or scattering source rather than the effects of the shaping.

For a figher sized aircraft the end effect is a mixed bag. The gross planform shaping may be effective and the UHF radar may see a very small RCS, or not.

For a large bomber-sized aircraft however the large aircraft has an advantage. Because it is so large shaping is still effective at these low frequencies. It is relatively easy to make a bomber stealthy at these frequencies.

BUT low frequency radars have poor spatial resolution. This is why they are used to air search radars. At best, they can tell you that there is something out there, but not with enough precision to guide a weapon. If your aircraft isn't "VLO" at UHF bands they can tell you're there, but they may not be able to do anything about it.

The RF kill chain starts with air surveillance radar (low frequency, i.e. HF, VHF, UHF, L, whatever) to know a potential target is out there with a potential range and bearing. At these frequencies large areas can be covered but you can't tell precisely where the target is. That is then passed off to a higher frequency tracking radar (S, X band - 3cm wavelength) to more precisely locate the target and follow it with the radar. That is passed off to a weapon with a seeker that uses even higher frequencies (X, Ku, Ka, MM, etc.) so it can precisely locate the target and hit it. This is all due to the physical laws that govern RF.

If you disrupt any part of that sequence your survivability increases. In terms of priorities, the low frequency air surveillance radars are the least important, followed by the tracking radars, etc. increasing in importance. if you can deny the seeker the ability to hit you, that's a win and the other parts of the kill chain are less vital to counter.

So this idea of low frequency radars being "anti stealth" is not all it's cracked up to be. I have seen people attempt to claim that low frequency radars are suddenly effective all-in-one kill chains on their own "because computers" and other nonsense and that's all it is - nonsense.

Due to the sheer size of the aircraft, I don't think it's X-band RCS is much smaller than that of the F-35s. It still has much better all-aspect stealth and substantially lower RCS in the L and UHF-bands

RCS is largely independent of size. A large object can have a very, very small RCS and a very small object can have a very large RCS. Large objects though can have a very small RCS over a much broader range of frequencies than a small object.

If we change the number such that the J-36 can reliably track the F-35 from 150km, then it can kill it with impunity.
Even if we go back to the 90km detection range, it's possible that the J-36 can dictate the terms of the engagement to such a degree that the F-35 is bound to lose, I have no idea about this stuff.

Again, just because you can track something does not mean you will be able to kill it.
 
Blurry underside photo of the SAC bird.

View attachment 754753
No movable rear stabilizers and the intakes are swept forward, planform aligned to the wings leading edge. There's something super odd about the wingtips however. Note, the belly is not flush but contoured from intake to exhaust.

Edit, the intake is nearly identical to the ACWFT and MCD2406.

Found this as a wingtip suspect:

 

Attachments

  • 2406 - side 2.jpg
    2406 - side 2.jpg
    29.8 KB · Views: 146
  • acwft_5views_by_tmasr_df567ay-fullview (1).jpg
    acwft_5views_by_tmasr_df567ay-fullview (1).jpg
    69.8 KB · Views: 144
Last edited:
In response to quellish's post above, outlets like The Drive claim that the E-2 can guide AMRAAM because the radar on the E-2 is AESA. Perhaps the board could use a repository for docs that explain the physics. Very few posters seem to know much physics and anyone who does know it well knows they could stand a refresher. Those who have dominant knowledge could help the rest of us. All aspect wideband VLO, just think about that term and how much physics is in there. It could help. A good doc on radar and how it only emits a certain number of photons and how those photons can either be sent in a lot of places (few photons) or a lot of photon sent to one place. I myself wonder why a UHF cannot target if the whole beam is sent to one place. How far off could it be? Couldn't algos get a pretty good targeting solution if they had a large dataset to fit the curve to? What about how fast all this has to happen? Maybe a UHF CAN get a target quality track IF it had more time, which it does not because engagements happen fast.
 
The Drive claim that the E-2 can guide AMRAAM because the radar on the E-2 is AESA

This is not accurate. Newer variants of the AMRAAM can get mid course guidance updates over a data link. An E-2 can provide those updates. It has nothing to do with whether an AESA radar is involved or not

The datalink also allows the AMRAAM to post to MySpace. The AIM-260 will take the networked weapon concept further and be able to post simultaneously to Twitter and Instagram - a first for any air launched missile. You heard it here first.
 
Low frequency radars are *said* to have "anti stealth capabilities" because their wavelengths are large in comparison to the electrical size of the target. For example, a 300mhz UHF radar has a wavelength of 1m. For shaping of an aircraft to be *most* effective the tailored scattering sources should be more than X times the wavelength in size (where X is a number larger than 10). The smaller those tailored scattering sources are compared to X times the wavelength the less effective the shaping is, and the radar basically sees the volume of the object or scattering source rather than the effects of the shaping.

For a figher sized aircraft the end effect is a mixed bag. The gross planform shaping may be effective and the UHF radar may see a very small RCS, or not.

For a large bomber-sized aircraft however the large aircraft has an advantage. Because it is so large shaping is still effective at these low frequencies. It is relatively easy to make a bomber stealthy at these frequencies.

BUT low frequency radars have poor spatial resolution. This is why they are used to air search radars. At best, they can tell you that there is something out there, but not with enough precision to guide a weapon. If your aircraft isn't "VLO" at UHF bands they can tell you're there, but they may not be able to do anything about it.

The RF kill chain starts with air surveillance radar (low frequency, i.e. HF, VHF, UHF, L, whatever) to know a potential target is out there with a potential range and bearing. At these frequencies large areas can be covered but you can't tell precisely where the target is. That is then passed off to a higher frequency tracking radar (S, X band - 3cm wavelength) to more precisely locate the target and follow it with the radar. That is passed off to a weapon with a seeker that uses even higher frequencies (X, Ku, Ka, MM, etc.) so it can precisely locate the target and hit it. This is all due to the physical laws that govern RF.

If you disrupt any part of that sequence your survivability increases. In terms of priorities, the low frequency air surveillance radars are the least important, followed by the tracking radars, etc. increasing in importance. if you can deny the seeker the ability to hit you, that's a win and the other parts of the kill chain are less vital to counter.

So this idea of low frequency radars being "anti stealth" is not all it's cracked up to be. I have seen people attempt to claim that low frequency radars are suddenly effective all-in-one kill chains on their own "because computers" and other nonsense and that's all it is - nonsense.



RCS is largely independent of size. A large object can have a very, very small RCS and a very small object can have a very large RCS. Large objects though can have a very small RCS over a much broader range of frequencies than a small object.



Again, just because you can track something does not mean you will be able to kill it.

This is not accurate. Newer variants of the AMRAAM can get mid course guidance updates over a data link. An E-2 can provide those updates. It has nothing to do with whether an AESA radar is involved or not

The datalink also allows the AMRAAM to post to MySpace. The AIM-260 will take the networked weapon concept further and be able to post simultaneously to Twitter and Instagram - a first for any air launched missile. You heard it here first.
1735962668675.png

The detection range has more factors than RCS. the detection range formula shows it.

the reality RCS is just how much of the signal is scattered in other directions other than the one perpendicular to the radar.

No aircraft is invisible to radar, what stealth aircraft do is take advantages in the way electromagnetic waves are weakened.

J-36 or F-22 can be detected by radars but it is harder with distance, and very expensive to set many radar arrays to do it.


Rest assured that in a big war stealth aircraft will be downed, does not matter are american F-35s or Chinese J-20 or Russian Su-57s. However the economic price is high.

1735963111737.png


The radar cross section formula also shows size matters St is target reflecting area, bigger aircraft have more reflecting area, so a smaller F-35 has a smaller St than a big J-36.

1735963391684.png

wave length is also important as you said but there are many factors that mathematically are expressed to show what is really stealth, mathematics do not lie is not corporate propaganda.
 
Last edited:
That energy doesn't go nowhere. I presume it would be lost as heat? That would be a problem.
Yes. Even if you tried some fancy ducting to keep a layer of cold air next to the ducts in the turns you'd lose thrust. And even without the lost thrust turning into heat you're routing jet exhaust through long tubes inside the airframe...

Compare "Straight-through Pegasus" to actual Pegasus numbers, then lose more because of greater turns. (Pegasus doesn't turn 2x 90s exactly, the airflow to the nozzles is straighter than that)
 
The detection range has more factors than RCS. the detection range formula shows it.

RCS is the most important due to physical and practical limitations of the other factors.

the reality RCS is just how much of the signal is scattered in other directions other than the one perpendicular to the radar.

Then why are absorbers important?

No aircraft is invisible to radar, what stealth aircraft do is take advantages in the way electromagnetic waves are weakened.

I both agree and disagree. There are certainly aircraft whose RCS puts the returned signal below the noise floor of some radars. Even at “0” range they are below detection threshold.

Generally though yes nothing is “invisible”, it’s a matter of detection range being reduced as much as practical. Of course there are also aircraft that may fly high enough that they are far enough away from a radar as to be undetectable.

The radar cross section formula also shows size matters St is target reflecting area, bigger aircraft have more reflecting area, so a smaller F-35 has a smaller St than a big J-36.

Yes the target reflecting area matters very much! Target reflecting area IS radar cross section.
 
View attachment 754762

The detection range has more factors than RCS. the detection range formula shows it.

the reality RCS is just how much of the signal is scattered in other directions other than the one perpendicular to the radar.

No aircraft is invisible to radar, what stealth aircraft do is take advantages in the way electromagnetic waves are weakened.
And make very small glints to dump as much energy as possible instead of bouncing it back towards the transmitter.

Picture a diamond, those throw glints in specific directions based on how they're shaped. (And a Diamond throws different angles than glass or quartz or even cubic Zirconia, but that's based on internal reflections not external reflections)

Actually, no.

Picture a disco ball in a dark room, with only one light shining on it.

Each mirror facet throws a "spike" of energy in a specific direction from the emitter. If you line up enough surfaces, you can get very bright spots on the wall. The smaller the spot, the more energy is there per unit area.

But those spots also mean that very little light goes back to the spotlight.

You can also add shade filters to those mirrors to reduce how much light they bounce. That's RAM in a nutshell.

RCS is what the plane on the target end of the radar can control. So the smaller you can make the plane's RCS the shorter the detection range is.
 
RCS is the most important due to physical and practical limitations of the other factors.



Then why are absorbers important?



I both agree and disagree. There are certainly aircraft whose RCS puts the returned signal below the noise floor of some radars. Even at “0” range they are below detection threshold.

Generally though yes nothing is “invisible”, it’s a matter of detection range being reduced as much as practical. Of course there are also aircraft that may fly high enough that they are far enough away from a radar as to be undetectable.



Yes the target reflecting area matters very much! Target reflecting area IS radar cross section.
RCS is influenced by two factors one is shape the other is reflecting area.

If you have a UCAV like X-47 and B-2 the smaller target will be harder to see, if you have B-52 and B-2 , B-52 is easier to see.

I will put you an example at 20km you will see a mountain but not a lighter, remember our eyes are using electromagnetic waves, same are radars, what is stealth is torches lighted in the night, the power density is low, so you can mask an aircraft, a very powerful radar will see any stealth aircraft, but airplanes do not have very powerful radars.

Maybe an AWACS but fighter aircraft have small torches in the night.

Nothing is stealth first because quantum mechanics does not allow it and second because aircraft are made of many materials nothing is stealth it is mostly propaganda, stealth aircraft will be downed, Russia knows it so they do not expose Su-57 and same is F-35 or J-20
 
And make very small glints to dump as much energy as possible instead of bouncing it back towards the transmitter.

Picture a diamond, those throw glints in specific directions based on how they're shaped. (And a Diamond throws different angles than glass or quartz or even cubic Zirconia, but that's based on internal reflections not external reflections)

Actually, no.

Picture a disco ball in a dark room, with only one light shining on it.

Each mirror facet throws a "spike" of energy in a specific direction from the emitter. If you line up enough surfaces, you can get very bright spots on the wall. The smaller the spot, the more energy is there per unit area.

But those spots also mean that very little light goes back to the spotlight.

You can also add shade filters to those mirrors to reduce how much light they bounce. That's RAM in a nutshell.

RCS is what the plane on the target end of the radar can control. So the smaller you can make the plane's RCS the shorter the detection range is.
Turn on the light and you will see the object clearly, power density is the main factor, better radars will see any stealth aircraft including J-36
 
RCS is influenced by two factors one is shape the other is reflecting area.

Nope. Nopety nope nope.

“Reflecting area” IS radar cross section. They are synonymous. The same thing.

RCS is influenced by how much energy is returned from the target to the receiver. The target will reflect, absorb, and pass through some percentage of that energy.

If you had a flat plate of infinite size that was a perfect electrical conductor and oriented it perpendicular to the radar it would have a very large RCS. But if you angled it 30 degrees away ( ie like / ) it would become invisible! All of that energy would reflect away from the radar, returning none!

Magic!
 
Nope. Nopety nope nope.

“Reflecting area” IS radar cross section. They are synonymous. The same thing.

RCS is influenced by how much energy is returned from the target to the receiver. The target will reflect, absorb, and pass through some percentage of that energy.

If you had a flat plate of infinite size that was a perfect electrical conductor and oriented it perpendicular to the radar it would have a very large RCS. But if you angled it 30 degrees away ( ie like / ) it would become invisible! All of that energy would reflect away from the radar, returning none!

Magic!
RCS in the formula has W/Squared meters, that means reflecting area, math does not lie, wattage/squared meter.

Smaller UCAVs are stealthier than J-36

you will see a mountain from afar but not a mosquito
 
RCS in the formula has W/Squared meters, that means reflecting area, math does not lie, wattage/squared meter.

Smaller UCAVs are stealthier than J-36

you will see a mountain from afar but not a mosquito
Not if the mountain was correctly shaped for stealth and the mosquito had corner reflectors. You don't understand the equations, clearly. 'Effective reflecting area' is not related to physical size.
 
Not if the mountain was correctly shaped for stealth and the mosquito had corner reflectors. You don't understand the equations, clearly. 'Effective reflecting area' is not related to physical size.
1735966535901.png

seems I am right Pyramids from that view are the same as
1735966610465.png

Yes F-117 has a pyramid for radome too but pyramids on a regular day can be seen from afar but the mosquito not.

math does not lie
 
RCS in the formula has W/Squared meters, that means reflecting area, math does not lie, wattage/squared meter.

Yes, RCS and reflecting area are the same thing. Neither has anything to do with the physical size of the target.

RCS is expressed as either dbsm or square meters. In the case of square meters this actually means “equivalent to the energy returned by a metal sphere of X square meters reflecting area”.

This may help.

 
Yes, RCS and reflecting area are the same thing. Neither has anything to do with the physical size of the target.

RCS is expressed as either dbsm or square meters. In the case of square meters this actually means “equivalent to the energy returned by a metal sphere of X square meters reflecting area”.

This may help.

let us leave it here, perhaps in another thread we can continue Regards
 
I myself wonder why a UHF cannot target if the whole beam is sent to one place. How far off could it be? Couldn't algos get a pretty good targeting solution if they had a large dataset to fit the curve to? What about how fast all this has to happen? Maybe a UHF CAN get a target quality track IF it had more time, which it does not because engagements happen fast.

The beam width of a parabolic radar antenna in degrees is ~ 70 x wavelength/aperture. So if you are using the low end of UHF (300Mhz / 1m wavelengt) then for a parabolic radar antenna with 5m aperture would have a beam width of 14deg. So your resolution out to 50miles is over 6miles; good enough for search but definitely not enough for a weapons track. Dwell time doesn’t increase the resolution of the target

Traditionally the way to increase resolution problem is to either increase the radar antenna aperture (make them bigger) or reduce the wavelength and use a higher frequency. It is much easier to increase the frequency the radar operates on to get a better resolution for a weapons track than to increase the size of an antenna on an aircraft. So you’d use one radar for search and track at a lower frequency and a separate targeting radar at a higher frequency to engage a target.

Using AESA radars can help with the problem because you use constructive and destructive interference from an array of thousands of transmitters elements to form a narrower beam. The beam width with an AESA radar is still finite and still proportional to wavelength so for good weapons quality track you still want to use a higher frequency if you can.

I highly recommend this MIT Lincoln labs lecture series for an introduction to radar systems if you like to learn more about how radar systems works.
 
Turn on the light and you will see the object clearly, power density is the main factor, better radars will see any stealth aircraft including J-36
but who turn on the light?or “iseedeadpeople”?
But what is this? I'm still not sure in what way this image shows the J-XDS??
It looks almost as if it has canards or even more as if it is flying upside-down?

In no way I get a match to what we otherwise know from it!

View attachment 754633
1735977040060.png
 
e you estimating the wings-folded width to be? ~7.
“Stealthy” is relative. Just how stealthy are they? F-117 stealthy? F/A-18E stealthy? None of the above?

How were their computational models validated? On a range where the models were strung on cables? Was there a cell tower across the street? Maybe their measurements were less than optimal?

Yes, RCS and reflecting area are the same thing. Neither has anything to do with the physical size of the target.

RCS is expressed as either dbsm or square meters. In the case of square meters this actually means “equivalent to the energy returned by a metal sphere of X square meters reflecting area”.

This may help.

Thank you Quellish, that's very helpful and thankfully clear enough to follow.
 
Can Sundog or anyone in general chip in as to why employing blanking off doors on the 2 caret inlets is so crazy? I realise that achieving a perfect match across the closure would be very hard and so on, but if the aircraft is at high altitude wouldn't this be an advantage operating on only the dorsal inlet? Would the dorsal inlet system need to have internal mixer doors to still feed flow through the inactive engines to mitigate base drag? Could these doors also enable the (high AoA effective) lateral inlets to feed air to the centreline engine during high Alpha maneuvers.

My thoughts looking at J-36 are:

1) Three engines with vectoring gives more redundancy which may be important.

2) Comparing three engines to two larger engines produces a flatter overall propulsion package for given overall mass-flow. Also the lateral inlets are presumably 30% smaller if sized for 1/3rd total mass flow.

3) Commonising engines across multiple platforms is probably cheaper (economies of scale etc) and allows the fleet of different aircraft to leverage technology improvements on that engine family as they come through more quickly.

4) Long range, deep magazine and VLO characteristics would be key objectives if you were designing a system to act as counter to B-21. I would imagine the PLAAF would be very concerned with deterrence vs that system more than say 5th generation fighters. The J-20 may be acceptable solution for conventional air battle, but you would want a system able to get well out from the Chinese mainland and picket with a high degree of stealth if you were first searching and then aiming to take down B-21 incursions. Long range strike of naval forces etc is plausible but there are already many discussed options that expose a less expensive asset to do this and we've already seen the prototypes for RQ-180 analogs that can handle search and targeting support for these missions. To me the compelling target for this weapon system seems to be the most stealthy and hardest to pin down target, the B-21. You have much less clarity where it's coming from, a huge area of sky to cover and you need to stay on station a long time and potentially deal with several targets in the same mission with relatively few aircraft. Getting on station quickly to maintain sortie rate and response effectiveness will be important but the marginal benefit of M2.2 over M1.7 will be very little. Main issue is to get on station quickly, stay there a long time and be hard for the opposing force to find and vector their bombers around.

5) IRST triangulation is plausible but I would expect that altering the search aircraft track is also a key part of building up a solution on the target course and having high performance IRST on both sides of the nose may be part of this?

For all the talk about DEW and enormous power requirements, I would still have thought that 1 to 2 MW with high efficiency PMSM generator is not a huge power drain off the engine given the total installed power in watts of a fighter engine is measured in tens of thousands of Watts. What's the issue? (I appreciate there will be impacts from shafting some of the power off the turbine but still that doesn't seem horrendous). A dedicated engine just for this seems unlikely but I could be overlooking something.

I hate putting my head above the parapet, so please appreciate I'm just a humble Mech engineer whose company develops high performance motor generators and power electronics, but I'm interested why this doesn't make sense.
 
Is this different (and potentially earlier) prototype? different color than one we seen, and there seems to be no payload bay.
I would concur it's indeed possible that we're looking at a completely separate aircraft there, despite the superficial similarity of the planform. Rumors had it even days before that Shenyang has both a manned and unmanned aircraft to fly. This may indeed be the unmanned component. Less care for rear angle stealth seems apparent. But also, two engines seem to be visible. Either those are smaller engines or we're talking about a very big unmanned fighter jet. Even if it's using WS-21 engines, for example, that thing is gonna be as big as J-35.
 
But what is this? I'm still not sure in what way this image shows the J-XDS??
It looks almost as if it has canards or even more as if it is flying upside-down?

In no way I get a match to what we otherwise know from it!
Perhaps it's using CCV for additional agility? I heard the rumour that the Shenyang design had foldable horizontal stabilisers for low-speed flight (or perhaps adjustable like Dan Raymer's work in the 80's?), but I've not seen enough evidence to confirm or reject that claim.
 

Attachments

  • aad.jpg
    aad.jpg
    58.2 KB · Views: 73
  • ccv.jpg
    ccv.jpg
    22.4 KB · Views: 65

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom