Shenyang / Chengdu 6th Gen Demonstrators?

tequilashooter

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
1 January 2021
Messages
699
Reaction score
891
No general chinese aviation thread for news like this so here we go?(unless mods or admin have a thread for where this news goes?)
View attachment 667036

Can't imagine it's anything too sensitive as I believe that stuff sits mostly in Xinjiang unless this is a counter-tease to that recent photo from Helendale.
 
No general chinese aviation thread for news like this so here we go?(unless mods or admin have a thread for where this news goes?)
View attachment 667036

Can't imagine it's anything too sensitive as I believe that stuff sits mostly in Xinjiang unless this is a counter-tease to that recent photo from Helendale.

It probably isn't a black project as such but if they were wanting to do flight demonstration I can't imagine they would start it off out west rather than just at their home base.

After all "tailless flight demonstration for 6th gen and/or UCAV applications" is not that exotic these days.

Considering this mockup was first seen on satellite as early as July this year and the Helendale RCS mockup was taken in September this year, I doubt they are related.
 
It probably isn't a black project as such but if they were wanting to do flight demonstration I can't imagine they would start it off out west rather than just at their home base.

After all "tailless flight demonstration for 6th gen and/or UCAV applications" is not that exotic these days.

Considering this mockup was first seen on satellite as early as July this year and the Helendale RCS mockup was taken in September this year, I doubt they are related.
[/QUOTE

Ahh great point out, thank you.
 
Guys from 611 certainly took this thing out of the hangar so that guys from Planet Labs could take a picture so that guys from The Drive and SPF could finally see what a sixth-generation Chinese fighter certainly would look like. Wow!
 
Guys from 611 certainly took this thing out of the hangar so that guys from Planet Labs could take a picture so that guys from The Drive and SPF could finally see what a sixth-generation Chinese fighter certainly would look like. Wow!

Are you being sarcastic with this one?
 
Guys from 611 certainly took this thing out of the hangar so that guys from Planet Labs could take a picture so that guys from The Drive and SPF could finally see what a sixth-generation Chinese fighter certainly would look like. Wow!
well, you know...how much times WZ-8 or other things popped out numerous times on sat images before they were unveiled. So now I'm not so sure any time I see anything.
 

Attachments

  • 01.JPG
    01.JPG
    55.8 KB · Views: 127
Guys from 611 certainly took this thing out of the hangar so that guys from Planet Labs could take a picture so that guys from The Drive and SPF could finally see what a sixth-generation Chinese fighter certainly would look like. Wow!
well, you know...how much times WZ-8 or other things popped out numerous times on sat images before they were unveiled. So now I'm not so sure any time I see anything.

Accepted. This is an argument.
 
Guys from 611 certainly took this thing out of the hangar so that guys from Planet Labs could take a picture so that guys from The Drive and SPF could finally see what a sixth-generation Chinese fighter certainly would look like. Wow!
well, you know...how much times WZ-8 or other things popped out numerous times on sat images before they were unveiled. So now I'm not so sure any time I see anything.
yep agreed, like we had j-20 concept image floating internet for years disregarded as just placeholder photo
 
Just another idea concerning that mysterious shape found at CAC: I found this somewhere on my harddrive allegedly showing some sort of a "Loyal Wingman" UAV. I know it is different and has tails and two engines but at least the wing geometry is similar ...

China loyal Wingman UAV - unknown.jpg ems to have two - unknown
 
Just another idea concerning that mysterious shape found at CAC: I found this somewhere on my harddrive allegedly showing some sort of a "Loyal Wingman" UAV. I know it is different and has tails and two engines but at least the wing geometry is similar ...

View attachment 667109ems to have two - unknown

Copying from SDF:

IMO "similar wing geometry" for a delta with angled trailing edges is so generic and likely to be applicable on so many different types of platforms, that any similarity is likely just superficial.


It's very possible that this tailless airframe itself is unmanned, but I would be very very hesitant to tie it to any specifically depicted concept that we've seen yet.
Given it has been laying out there able to be caught on satellite across multiple images across differing months, suggests to me it is some sort of demonstrator whose purpose has already been fulfilled and was moved out into the open to make space for something else. If it were the prototype of a specific new actively defined aircraft, it wouldn't have been left there.


Needless to say, flying a tailless delta flying demonstrator of relatively large size (14m long x 12m wingspan), regardless of whether the demonstrator itself is manned or unmanned, could have multiple applications. The lead of which of course is 6th gen, but also for general UCAV/loyal wingman purposes.
 

China Bets On Variety Of Large Fighter Aircraft​

Bradley Perrett March 07, 2022
China has a heavy fighter force, and it is getting heavier. The bulk of Chinese fighter acquisition funding is pouring into production lines for large, long-range aircraft that suit western Pacific distances.


But the air force and naval aviation branch fighter fleets are badly fragmented, and no fewer than five major designs are currently in production for them. They are the Avic Chengdu J-10C and J-20A and the Avic Shenyang J-11, J-15 and J-16; the first two are fully indigenous, and the others are developments of the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker.

Evidence points to upcoming advances in the form of new J-10 and J-20 versions and, for the navy, an operational development of the Shenyang FC-31 fighter demonstrator. Although China is a great enthusiast for the long-legged Flanker, there is little sign of it working on future versions—yet the possibility of their appearance cannot be ruled out.


Introduction of new fighter designs will hardly help maintenance and logistics organizations, even as they are relieved of the burden of supporting obsolete Chengdu J-7s and Shenyang J-8s, perhaps around 2026.

China’s bias toward heavy fighters shows up in the balance of designs it has in production, the balance of output numbers and, most decisively, the evident balance of funding.


Of five production designs, only one, the J-10C, is not a heavyweight[...]

And J-10s, medium-weight fighters only about 10% bigger than Lockheed Martin F-16s, should not be expensive. If aircraft empty weight is taken as an index of unit cost, China applied only 18% of fighter production funding to the J-10 program in 2021—and that is probably an overestimate, since the stealthy J-20 is likely to be disproportionately expensive for its size.[...]

Probably all fighters in production for the Chinese air force now have AESA radars, raising the possibility, but hardly proving, that the avionics are comparable to such foreign designs as the Boeing F/A-18E/F Block II Super Hornet, which entered service in 2005. The J-15 apparently still uses a mechanically scanned array, but the expected FC-31 derivative should replace that shipboard Flanker and will surely have an AESA.

Shenyang used company funding to design the FC-31 (also called the J-31) as a technology demonstrator, but an industry source said in 2018 that the project was then receiving government money to develop it as a naval fighter.

The air force was also interested in it, the source said. However, there has been no confirmation of a version for that service, which obviously rejected it around a decade ago.

The air force presumably thought then that it had enough variation in its fleet already and better things to do with its money and that it could wait for something better than the FC-31 as a successor to the J-10.

That something should be the fighter that Chengdu designer Wang Haifeng has said will be in service by 2035. His timing suggests a prototype should appear this decade.
Although it is likely to replace the J-10 in production, the new type need not be in the same weight class.


Interesting, in the past he had already stated the same thing, alluding to a 6th Generation fighter but his plan to catch up and field a new fighter by 2035 seems way too aggressive, considering that's around the same IOC date intended for NGAD, not to mention the development costs. If they really mean it, then it's more likely they'll have no option than going with a "JX-44 MANTA" like J-20 derivative instead of a cleansheet design.
 
Also:

J-20B "Transformers in the Sky"
9ab588c3271a4cfcbe6e59137b0dbb8d.jpg


 
Known since October 2021 on satellite images, this is suggested to be a (full) ? scale mockup or even a 6. generation technology demonstrator built by 611 Institute/CAC featuring a tailless diamond wing configuration.

And today this ... Just a CG or indeed the rumoured testbed?

(Image via @沉默的山羊 from Weibo)

Fmwjt6QWAAINHI-

FmwlGtzWYAArH6n



See also:

1674052153246.png

 
Allegedly some pictures showing a possible sixth-generation fighter captured via a video posted on AVIC's official website today. As it seems, there are more and more hints supporting the possibility of a diamond-shaped wing and tail-less fighter design.

(Images via AVIC)

PLAAF 6. generation type - AVIC - 20230131 - 1.jpg PLAAF 6. generation type - AVIC - 20230131 - 2.jpg PLAAF 6. generation type - AVIC - 20230131 - 3.jpg PLAAF 6. generation type - AVIC - 20230131 - 4.jpg
 
Round nozzles might be a stopgap measure before proper engines are ready. The flying wing design implies an attempt at all-aspect stealth, so eventually they need to sort things out.

What's really odd is the use of CARET intakes. I would've thought that they'd go with DSI again.
 
Round nozzles might be a stopgap measure before proper engines are ready. The flying wing design implies an attempt at all-aspect stealth, so eventually they need to sort things out.

What's really odd is the use of CARET intakes. I would've thought that they'd go with DSI again.

It's a generic depiction of a future manned fighter, I wouldn't read too much into the details.

If anything the details are likely deliberately misleading.
 
It is early days as to what the 6th generation fighter will look like, it will probably look a lot more different than the design that Deino posted above.
 
Latest leak confirms something we have long suspected -- a fifth generation engine (sixth generation) is under development for the Chinese sixth gen.

1679872648821.png
 
Sorry does anyone know where the recent rumor that the upcoming Chinese 6th gen aircraft will have 3 engine configuration come from?
 
I would think that it will only be a rumour that the Chinese 6th gen fighter will have a third engine. If true however it will be the only 6th gen fighter in the world with three engines.
 
I would think that it will only be a rumour that the Chinese 6th gen fighter will have a third engine. If true however it will be the only 6th gen fighter in the world with three engines.
Even outside 6th gen aircraft I couldn’t think about many recent manned military aircraft with 3 engine configuration either.
 
Even outside 6th gen aircraft I couldn’t think about many recent manned military aircraft with 3 engine configuration either.

Has there ever been a three engine fighter aircraft? I can think of several cargo aircraft and if we go to four engines, lots of stuff. But for a fighter aircraft, especially a modern one, it sounds ridiculous.
 
Sorry does anyone know where the recent rumor that the upcoming Chinese 6th gen aircraft will have 3 engine configuration come from?

Fanart BS of course
 
Sorry does anyone know where the recent rumor that the upcoming Chinese 6th gen aircraft will have 3 engine configuration come from?

In fact as much as I prefer to wait until we indeed see this "thing" and as such to not jump to any too premature conclusions, there are indeed since months quite concrete hints from several most credible posters on Weibo, who all hint a "large" type, a type that would be surprisingly "ugly" (or maybe better translated as unique), as black and indeed as being powered by three engines. And all promise some sort of "Christmas-present or Christmas-surprise"!
 
So you think it's fake?

However, I must admit, I'm also on the sceptical side ... IMO too soon to be true, without a chase plane ... let's wait until one of the big-shrimps confirms it!
 
Last edited:
So you think it's fake?

However, I must admit, I'm also on the sceptical side ... IMO too soon to be true, without a chase plane ... let's wait until one of the big-shrimps confirms it!
I am skeptical as well, but it does at least look very cool given what we see in the (potentially fake) silhouette.
 
The funny thing is, I wouldn't be surprised if indeed "something happened" today but just because these photos are fake, everyone is now very careful at the moment a) to post something and b) to judge So it will be quiet again until maybe a little later then real photos appear.
 
I heard there was a few of speculation of what this new aircraft could look like over on Chinese side of the internet, anyone have picture of those speculation? Or at least I recall people talking about it.
 
There's been some guided speculation including how many engines it may have, its overall size and configuration etc.

But better just to sit back and wait. I don't think it'll be long for the question to be answered, and it's probably not worth getting into the nitty gritty yet.
 
Why there's common expectations that Chinese 6G fighter should emerge anytime 'soon' apart from 'wish'? Where's engine for 6G aircraft, have I missed something?
 

Similar threads

Please donate to support the forum.

Back
Top Bottom