Secret German super explosive called RADgUm tested at Grafenwoehr during WWII

[novum]

Hi there,

a question to all researchers here:

In

https://www.kopp-verlag.de/a/unter-verschluss-ausgabe-januar/februar-2023?srsltid=AfmBOoq5FgivyTyc7nwoMACA4qAFSWOswgfh1C9fzBYW3g5DOvtbqhUP

(German) there is an article about a supposed super explosive the Germans did invent during WWII, which was supposed to be called RADgUm. This information came from SS-Oberfuehrer Emil Klein, commander of pioneer school of the Waffen SS Hradischko, Czech Republic. He was put into prison for many years and questioned by Czech interrogators to reveal the secrets, among those, the secret of RADgUm. 700 grams of this explosive, according to Emil Klein was tested at Grafenwoehr proving ground, Germany during WWII. A documentary about this can be watched on youtube:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q16SL67sUKE&t=2021s
(German).

My question is as follows: Did anybody of you come along the following expressions in your research: RADgUm, BLV90Um, Lyzin or documents about tests at Grafenwoehr / Emil Klein, Bellgardt, Dibitsch in C.I.O.S., B.I.O.S., F.I.A.T., J.O.I.A. reports or other archival documents? Also documents with claims on a super explosive invented by Germany during WWII would be interesting in this context.

Any hints are greatly appreciated!

 

[Dilandu]

RADgUm, BLV90Um,

Both terms are meaningless and doesn't seems to fit the general German nomenclature for such things. My IMHO - another fairy tale about "wunderwaffels".

 

[novum]

Both terms are meaningless and doesn't seems to fit the general German nomenclature for such things. My IMHO - another fairy tale about "wunderwaffels".

Wunderwaffels - that's a good one. You really made me laugh with that one. Of course that can well be, these expressions sound also more like DuckTales - however who knows? I would not be surprised if a company like for instance IG Farben would have invented something like that.

 

[Michel Van]

the proving ground correct name during WW2 is Truppenübungsplatz Grafenwöhr.
now called Grafenwoehr by USArmy

google on RADgUm, BLV90Um, Lyzin
this let down a wild rabbit hole of Nazi Wunderwaffels, special there use for Nukes
also this note is hysterical

RADgUm ist ein Supersprengstoff
60 kg entsprechen einer Sprengwirkung von 40 - 45 Mill.Tonnen TNT

60 metric kg has force of 40~45 million metric tons of TNT
my reaction on that

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EoAHdwGBvU

 

[novum]

Yeah 40~45 million metric tons is a little bit overrated, I agree. Where can I find documents about tests that were conducted at Grafenwöhr?

 

[Dilandu]

the proving ground correct name during WW2 is Truppenübungsplatz Grafenwöhr.

Actually if I recall correctly, it was a training ground, not proving ground during WW2. And it was constantly in use. Hardly a place for testing explosives.

 

[fightingirish]

IMHO, you have mixed the Truppenübungsplatz Grafenwohr with the Truppenübungsplatz Ohrdruf.
Dear members, please do not follow on the discussion from the closed topic 'German Atomic Bombs in WW2' here now in this topic. See also our forum rules.

 

[Justo Miranda]

The use of Myrol fuel-air bombs against Allied aircraft formations violated the Geneva Convention on the use of toxic gases, and the Nazis did not dare to use it at a time when hundreds of Allied aircraft were flying over the Reich night and day... it would have been enough to exchange the incendiary bombs for anthrax to depopulate Europe for a hundred years.

 

[novum]

Actually if I recall correctly, it was a training ground, not proving ground during WW2. And it was constantly in use. Hardly a place for testing explosives.

Good point. But were not training grounds also used for testing new weapons like that? With for instance project Hexenkessel they used a place near the Fliegerhorst Zwölfaxing - that might not have been a Truppenübungsplatz.

 

[Dilandu]

Good point. But were not training grounds also used for testing new weapons?

Hardly. At least not if it continiously used for training & it's hard to maintain secrecy.

 

[Michel Van]

But were not training grounds also used for testing new weapons?

it a confusing matter with Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and SS how they use there training grounds.

for Testing new weapons was at Kummersdorf (Versuchs- und Forschungsgelände des damaligen Heereswaffenamts)

 

[williamjpellas]

What can be said with some certainty is that WWII German atomic physicists were very much interested in nuclear fusion. Usually this took the form of how it might be combined synergistically with prompt supercritical fission reactions in boosted fission and hydrogen bombs, but there is evidence that they also explored "pure" fusion bombs. That is, they experimented with various techniques that they hoped might be able to produce a militarily useful fusion detonation without first having to engineer a fission bomb.

Whether this is actually possible is disputed in the few public source books and articles I have seen on the subject. According to Henry Stevens' book, Hitler's Suppressed and Still Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology, Karl Nowak experimented with extremely cold temperatures and how those might affect certain elements or substances. His goal was to produce superdense materials that could or might release massive amounts of energy if they were suddenly reheated, as by implosion. This process would then serve to ignite the fusion fuel in the bomb core, though if I am not mistaken (this is all from memory which might not be accurate), it was thought that these substances themselves might be sufficiently explosive under certain conditions for use as a weapon. IIRC Nowak worked in Norway for at least part of the war, though don't quote me on that point. But if so, this would be consistent with comments by Dwight Eisenhower regarding German superbomb work being done in that country. There are other mentions of this in various places.

The emigre German physicist Friedwardt Winterberg spoke of this line of research when he commented about the disgraced Austrian scientist Ronald Richter, long vilified as having sold snake oil to Juan Peron in Argentina after the war. Winterberg, who was brought to the US under Operation Paperclip in the mid-1950s after earning his PhD under Diebner and Heisenberg, is one of the few notables who ever came to Richter's defense. I find this noteworthy given Winterberg's own bona fides and otherwise significant career in nuclear physics.

https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article/56/8/12/388354/Ronald-Richter-Genius-or-Nut

https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article/56/8/12/388409/Ronald-Richter-Genius-or-Nut

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238958386_Ronald_Richter_Genius_or_Nut

In the mid-1990s there was a brief but informative article in Physics World titled, "Cherry Red and Very Dangerous" which includes a bomb schematic. Again there is a great deal of contradictory opinion and accusation flying back and forth so draw your own conclusions but some perfectly reputable weapons scientists and other muckety-mucks are quoted.

Cherry red and very dangerous

"Red mercury", a uniquely powerful chemical explosive which has been dismissed by many experts as a myth, could be real, and it could pose a serious threat

www.newscientist.com

The 1995 book The Mini Nuke Conspiracy is about the possible involvement of Apartheid era South Africa in building alleged-to-exist red mercury nuclear weapons. I must emphasize that I have not read it and so I can't comment knowledgeably on its sources or the quality of the writing, etc, but for what it's worth, it has to do with this topic.

According to the late Chuck Hansen's extraordinary resource, The Swords Of Armageddon, American nuclear scientists also explored pure fusion weapons in the first decades following the end of the second world war and concluded that it was not possible to build them. At least one version of Hansen's writing lists pure fusion bombs under the heading of "Unattainable Ideas" but again this is disputed in other sources.

 

[Nicknick]

actually, I found some footage of the Wunderwaffels ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffel )...Indeed, they look very frightning

BTW "Radgum" sounds like a an abrivation for "Radiergummi" (rubber eraser)...

 

[Justo Miranda]

What can be said with some certainty is that WWII German atomic physicists were very much interested in nuclear fusion. Usually this took the form of how it might be combined synergistically with prompt supercritical fission reactions in boosted fission and hydrogen bombs, but there is evidence that they also explored "pure" fusion bombs. That is, they experimented with various techniques that they hoped might be able to produce a militarily useful fusion detonation without first having to engineer a fission bomb.

Whether this is actually possible is disputed in the few public source books and articles I have seen on the subject. According to Henry Stevens' book, Hitler's Suppressed and Still Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology, Karl Nowak experimented with extremely cold temperatures and how those might affect certain elements or substances. His goal was to produce superdense materials that could or might release massive amounts of energy if they were suddenly reheated, as by implosion. This process would then serve to ignite the fusion fuel in the bomb core, though if I am not mistaken (this is all from memory which might not be accurate), it was thought that these substances themselves might be sufficiently explosive under certain conditions for use as a weapon. IIRC Nowak worked in Norway for at least part of the war, though don't quote me on that point. But if so, this would be consistent with comments by Dwight Eisenhower regarding German superbomb work being done in that country. There are other mentions of this in various places.

The emigre German physicist Friedwardt Winterberg spoke of this line of research when he commented about the disgraced Austrian scientist Ronald Richter, long vilified as having sold snake oil to Juan Peron in Argentina after the war. Winterberg, who was brought to the US under Operation Paperclip in the mid-1950s after earning his PhD under Diebner and Heisenberg, is one of the few notables who ever came to Richter's defense. I find this noteworthy given Winterberg's own bona fides and otherwise significant career in nuclear physics.

https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article/56/8/12/388354/Ronald-Richter-Genius-or-Nut

https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article/56/8/12/388409/Ronald-Richter-Genius-or-Nut

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238958386_Ronald_Richter_Genius_or_Nut

In the mid-1990s there was a brief but informative article in Physics World titled, "Cherry Red and Very Dangerous" which includes a bomb schematic. Again there is a great deal of contradictory opinion and accusation flying back and forth so draw your own conclusions but some perfectly reputable weapons scientists and other muckety-mucks are quoted.

Cherry red and very dangerous

"Red mercury", a uniquely powerful chemical explosive which has been dismissed by many experts as a myth, could be real, and it could pose a serious threat

www.newscientist.com

The 1995 book The Mini Nuke Conspiracy is about the possible involvement of Apartheid era South Africa in building alleged-to-exist red mercury nuclear weapons. I must emphasize that I have not read it and so I can't comment knowledgeably on its sources or the quality of the writing, etc, but for what it's worth, it has to do with this topic.

According to the late Chuck Hansen's extraordinary resource, The Swords Of Armageddon, American nuclear scientists also explored pure fusion weapons in the first decades following the end of the second world war and concluded that it was not possible to build them. At least one version of Hansen's writing lists pure fusion bombs under the heading of "Unattainable Ideas" but again this is disputed in other sources.

German scientists never intended to build an atomic bomb. The Reich lacked the resources used in the Manhattan Project and was unable to requisition the necessary Belgian uranium because it was concealed by the French Communists until the end of the war. But even if Germany had had all these resources, no scientist would have dared to propose to Hitler the realization of a project that would have absorbed all the resources destined for the V-weapons.

A project based on quantum theory that the SS considered a Jewish science derived from the cabal and that might well not work leaving the bomb in the hands of the enemy.

As far as I know, all practical research on nuclear energy was always aimed at the creation of a reactor capable of propelling a submarine.

And even if they had built the bomb and the launcher had managed to break through the formidable British defenses and destroyed part of London, that would only have angered the Allies. Today, Berlin would be a crater.

 

[edwest4]

The usual fiction. Uranium stored in Belgium was seized. This ore came from the Katanga mine in the Belgian Congo. Ore stored in France was also seized. The uranium mine at Joachimstahl in Czechoslovakia was taken over after the annexation. Plenty of uranium was available.

There is also the widely spread fiction that the attack on Norsk Hydro deprived Germany of heavy water. That is not true. Heavy water was produced in Germany at the Linde Eismaschinen AG.

And the latest fiction. Had the war lasted longer, the Americans would have dropped atomic bombs on Germany. Churchill had nothing comparable to the V weapons. He could only increase conventional poison gas production during the war and pledge to use it.

 

[Jemiba]

Perhaps we should wait for next issue of that magazine, the January/February one, where we will get information about the nuclear attacks on the Soviet Union, that were planned for June 1945 ….
Interesting, too, may be the second special issue from this year, discussing the question, if the nuclear bombs, that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki by any chance were captured in Germany …
The whole portfolio of this publisher, (Kopp-Verlag) is interesting, and there‘s so something for everyone. How about a telescopic baton ?
Or have a look at the headers of another product from that publisher, the Compact magazine, and you may see, which way the wind is blowing …

 

[CJGibson]

Churchill had nothing comparable to the V weapons. He could only increase conventional poison gas production during the war and pledge to use it.

Who needed V-weapons when Bomber Commnad was ranging far and wide destroying cities? I think the N-bomb would have been the preferred special weapon had it been required.

Chris

 

[edwest4]

Perhaps we should wait for next issue of that magazine, the January/February one, where we will get information about the nuclear attacks on the Soviet Union, that were planned for June 1945 ….
Interesting, too, may be the second special issue from this year, discussing the question, if the nuclear bombs, that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki by any chance were captured in Germany …
The whole portfolio of this publisher, (Kopp-Verlag) is interesting, and there‘s so something for everyone. How about a telescopic baton ?
Or have a look at the headers of another product from that publisher, the Compact magazine, and you may see, which way the wind is blowing …

Which magazine is that magazine?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Which magazine is that magazine?

Well, I must admit that maybe my sources are fictitious and you're right. But that doesn't alter my conviction that German scientists didn't believe in the bomb. When they were prisoners in England after the surrender of Germany, they were surprised to hear the news about Hiroshima....or maybe this source is also fictitious?

 

[Justo Miranda]

Which magazine is that magazine?

Same here

 

[edwest4]

Never mind. I'll be getting a copy of that magazine.

 

[Arjen]

@edwest4 Only if you are short of bog rolls and someone offers you an issue for free.

Compact (German magazine) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Follow the links in its citations section.

 

[edwest4]

I have an ample supply of bog rolls.

 

[Arjen]

Then you could skip on Compact.

 

[williamjpellas]

Never mind. I'll be getting a copy of that magazine.

Or you could read this article about it. As usual, Todd Rider was all over this and well ahead of the curve.

https://randomhistory.quora.com/The-second-major-document-declassified-this-past-summer-after-79-years-of-secrecy-which-reveals-the-true-scope-and-objec

There's also this one, in which D. Ray Smith, the longtime historian at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, finally comes right out and says that he agrees with Carter Hydrick's now more than 20 year old findings about wartime German enrichment of uranium. There are some other heavy hitters named in this piece, including the late Dr. Delmar Bergen, who was for some years the director of the US Nuclear Weapons Program at Los Alamos.

Did Germany enrich uranium during World War II?

Oak Ridge historian D. Ray Smith writes about author Carter Hydrick and his book,"Critical Mass."

www.oakridger.com

Did Germany enrich uranium during WWII? This is final part of a series

Ray Smith tells about the findings by the author of "Critical Mass: How Nazi Germany Surrendered Enriched Uranium for the United States' Atomic Bomb."

www.oakridger.com

So, more and more cracks---and larger and larger ones---keep appearing in the dam that has held back the real history of WWII German nuclear weapons. It takes more and more effort for people to keep sticking fingers in their ears while shouting "la-la-la-I-can't-hear-you" but they keep on truckin'. Many of them are here on this site and in this thread.

But I'll be quiet now, lest I veer too far into The Taboo Subject And The Recent Author And Book Which Must Not Be Named.

 

[Dilandu]

What can be said with some certainty is that WWII German atomic physicists were very much interested in nuclear fusion. Usually this took the form of how it might be combined synergistically with prompt supercritical fission reactions in boosted fission and hydrogen bombs, but there is evidence that they also explored "pure" fusion bombs. That is, they experimented with various techniques that they hoped might be able to produce a militarily useful fusion detonation without first having to engineer a fission bomb.

They never worked on BOMB. They were reasonably concerned, that if they mention atomic bomb as something that could be realistically done, their Nazi superior would immediately order it made in some ridiculous time - like half of year - without even a fraction of resources required. And in case of inevitable failure, it would be scientists, who get blamed. So German atomic scientists always firmly insisted that they worked on "atomic energy source" and mentioned "atomic explosives" only as some remote possibility; interesting enough to keep their Nazi superiors hooked, but remote enough to not being ordered to actually build it.

 

[edwest4]

Thank you William. Much appreciated. I will not mention the Book Which Must Not Be Named.

 

[edwest4]

Then you could skip on Compact.

I have no interest in Compact. I'll be getting the other one.

 

[williamjpellas]

Thank you William. Much appreciated. I will not mention the Book Which Must Not Be Named.

Thank you, Dr. Zaius. We must all do our part, of course.

 

[edwest4]

Thank you, Dr. Zaius. We must all do our part, of course.

Of course.

 

[novum]

They never worked on BOMB. They were reasonably concerned, that if they mention atomic bomb as something that could be realistically done, their Nazi superior would immediately order it made in some ridiculous time - like half of year - without even a fraction of resources required. And in case of inevitable failure, it would be scientists, who get blamed. So German atomic scientists always firmly insisted that they worked on "atomic energy source" and mentioned "atomic explosives" only as some remote possibility; interesting enough to keep their Nazi superiors hooked, but remote enough to not being ordered to actually build it.

I don't think so. Have a look at the following article, written in 1939: (from Bundesarchiv Freiburg, RW 4/411 Bd. 1):



or this one, one year later:



I don't think that they did these scientific studies just for fun.

 

[edwest4]

De Nile is strong here. And thank you.

 

[martinbayer]

Hi there,

a question to all researchers here:

In

https://www.kopp-verlag.de/a/unter-verschluss-ausgabe-januar/februar-2023?srsltid=AfmBOoq5FgivyTyc7nwoMACA4qAFSWOswgfh1C9fzBYW3g5DOvtbqhUP

(German) there is an article about a supposed super explosive the Germans did invent during WWII, which was supposed to be called RADgUm. This information came from SS-Oberfuehrer Emil Klein, commander of pioneer school of the Waffen SS Hradischko, Czech Republic. He was put into prison for many years and questioned by Czech interrogators to reveal the secrets, among those, the secret of RADgUm. 700 grams of this explosive, according to Emil Klein was tested at Grafenwoehr proving ground, Germany during WWII. A documentary about this can be watched on youtube:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q16SL67sUKE&t=2021s
(German).

My question is as follows: Did anybody of you come along the following expressions in your research: RADgUm, BLV90Um, Lyzin or documents about tests at Grafenwoehr / Emil Klein, Bellgardt, Dibitsch in C.I.O.S., B.I.O.S., F.I.A.T., J.O.I.A. reports or other archival documents? Also documents with claims on a super explosive invented by Germany during WWII would be interesting in this context.

Any hints are greatly appreciated!

You do *NOT* need any hints, but you *DO* need to educate yourself on first performing objective, critical, educated, multi source based research. Historical truth is *NOT* an online buffet, young padawan (if you self-identify as such, that is). But as general guidance, as an actual senior German international aerospace engineer I strongly advise you to hone your basic critical thinking skills first. In other words, DO NOT latch on to the very first online link that is pushed your way, but do critical searches to either verify or refute it. Is that basic concept of critical thinking really so hard to understand???

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

Its the annual resurgence of the Nazi Nukes topic I see. Farewell, don't let the door hit you on the way out.