Woody

Passionate about the advancement of technology
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Oops - meant to post this in 'Postwar Secret Project'. Moderators please move it.

Cheers, Woody
 
Flankeraptor...or Terminaptor...
 
Thanks Rousseau for at least trying to be helpful.

rousseau said:
This one just is XueXiao Layout presented before.

Where exactly has this been presented before?

All I can find is this quote from Emile:-

BTW, XueXiao has been determined as a layout of next generation jet fighter instead of Menglong which I originally appreciated. Which only clue we can followed is foreplan will be used with tailplan to both, so traditional concept of stealth may be no longer appropriate. Chinese designers are not so fool to ignoranced advantage of stealth that F-22 taked.


Cheers, Woody
 
3 D of J-XX
 
Here's a collection made by "Hyperwarp" ...

Hyperwarp;1259074 said:
over G, sir, here are some of the initial J-XX releases.

All:
Type-D.jpg


Eliminated:
post-26-1206628145.jpg

post-26-1206628116.jpg


601/SAC:
035A.jpg

11014619182.jpg


post-10-1097596896.jpg

XXJ2.jpg

1100184198.jpg

1100184298showimg.jpg

1020487_771990913.jpg

Deino
 
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Hi,

and the XXJ from Flightglobal in 1997.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1997/1997%20-%200619.html
 

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When I saw this drawing in 1997 it made me think of an early F-15A and that is what I had thought of using to make a model of it. Until I opened a model of the J-31 a while ago. I think the XXJ drawing is what became the J-31. Photo from a similar perspective of a J-31 model from an eBay auction of the seller listed in the bottom corner of the photo.

hesham said:
Hi,

and the XXJ from Flightglobal in 1997.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1997/1997%20-%200619.html
 

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frank said:
When I saw this drawing in 1997 it made me think of an early F-15A and that is what I had thought of using to make a model of it. Until I opened a model of the J-31 a while ago. I think the XXJ drawing is what became the J-31. Photo from a similar perspective of a J-31 model from an eBay auction of the seller listed in the bottom corner of the photo.

hesham said:
Hi,

and the XXJ from Flightglobal in 1997.

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1997/1997%20-%200619.html

Nice find Frank,and so stranger.
 
I got so interested in this Shenyang 5th-gen fighter. All I known is it was competition with J-20.
 

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Fantasy of naval fighter based on Shenyang's design.
 

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even if I know what are the 611 and 611 Institutes (SAC & CAC), what is Institute 627?
 
The Snowy Owl fighter is a competitor to the J-20, Some people say that his code name is J-14, some say it is J-15, and some say it is J-19, but there is no conclusive evidence, and the only thing that can be determined is her code name "Snow Owl", There are also many controversies about the appearance, some people say that she is the product of Shenyang Aircraft Factory thorough study of the aerodynamic shape of the Su-27, and the shape will be similar to the Su-57, like picture3.(I have two other images but can't upload them). Some people also say that Shenyang Aircraft Factory scientific research strength is not enough to thoroughly study and improve the Flanker series. So the shape should be more similar to picture 1 and 2, But since losing the competition, she has not been heard. Shenyang Aircraft Factory next work is the FC-31. Much has been written and discussed about the FC-31, but more information about the snowy owl remains murky.
kOJP-fysuuya3066573.jpg OE3K-fysuuya3066584.jpg
 
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Sorry I missed some information, The following message, quoted from article, is more credible.

In 1997, when the military signed contracts with Chengdu Aircraft Factory and Shenyang Aircraft Factory for the development of fourth-generation aircraft, the two companies had actually been studying for a long time and had a certain amount of accumulation in the development of fourth-generation aircraft. Chengfei took the J-9 as the prototype to embark on an innovative path, while Shenfei used the new three-wing K98 scheme as the prototype for research and development.

The fist product independently developed by Shen Fei that year was the J-8, which was modified into a three-wing surface verification aircraft with a digital four-redundancy fly-by-wire control system on the "J-8IIB" in the early stage, and completed the experimental subject in 1999, which was later the "J-8IIACT" verification aircraft (with canard wings).picture 1.

On this basis, the design of the next generation prototype began, and it took four years to complete the design plan, adopting a very fashionable three-wing design, with front side strip wings and double delta wings on the main wing. Influenced by the long-term imitation/development of Soviet-style fighters, special emphasis is placed on maneuverability, which can reach a controllable angle of attack of 65 degrees without the use of vector engines, and even has a certain controllable force at an angle of attack of 90 degrees in extreme conditions. With the use of Garette air intake and double full-motion vertical tail, super maneuverability, the scheme was finally named "Snow Owl".

At that time, there were also a number of aerodynamic layout schemes, including: three-wing surface, conventional layout, side strip wing design, main wing bending design, etc.(I think there must be something wrong with the translation of these proper nouns)picture 2

In general, the design of the "Snow Owl" is similar to that of the Su-57 fighter, but it will be worse in canard wing and fuselage fusion technology, as well as engine technology. "Snow Owl" emphasizes super maneuverability, stealth performance instead becomes an auxiliary function, "Snow Owl" is longer than the large J-20 fighter, the whole body is very large, and a canard wing (double delta wing + canard wing) is added before the normal wing layout.

The last image shows the different configurations at the time of testing, and I have to say that the forward-swept wing design similar to the Su47 is really handsome, but I don't know what the purpose of the curved wing of the rear half-moon is, maybe to solve some problems unique to the forward-swept wing? Hopefully, a professional will be able to answer that

2b2920000c420a980fbd3~tplv-tt-origin.jpeg

2b2990000c5ef3785900d~tplv-tt-origin.jpeg

174f500084ba518568ed6~tplv-tt-origin.jpeg e46b6a6fa3444480a028f520c4d226c3~tplv-tt-origin.jpeg
 
Are those "scores" in different categories in the last image?
 
I haven't seen these sketches, in my impression, this fighter should be the top one when it is finalized, and this sketch should be the initial design plan, this is even a no-vertical tail plan, if it is true, then it should still be to solve the problem of wing strength or increase some aspect of maneuverability, the only obvious thing is that even the final plan did not use this sketch. After that, the Air Force chose stealth between stealth and maneuvering. As a result, Shen Fei lost the order for the fifth-generation aircraft, and chose the FC31 in order to ensure its fifth-generation aircraft research and development capabilities, and finally the Navy adopted this plan, and the Air Force was also interested
 
This is the final plan officially confirmed at the Changchun Air Show to compete head-to-head with the J20 that year, and it is really difficult to achieve it on the stealth
 

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No, this is not an 'official model'. @Deino
Video link is below, unfortunately, I have not been to the demonstration, but from the video display, this part of the exhibition is closer to science fiction than reality, and Chinese aircraft have never had such a YF23-like tail nozzle.
https://video.weibo.com/show?fid=1034:4806324903673921
I also don't think this is a real model, but the video publisher does seem to be an official account
 
Are those "scores" in different categories in the last image?
These numbers are their rankings, from left to right, mobility, agility, high Angle of attack performance, rcs good or bad, and the last word is incomplete, which looks like the lift ranking.(The ranking in the figure shows that mobility is good, but RCS performance is poor, Fits the theory that she was eliminated because of poor RCS performance)

I just noticed that the text on the picture shows that the top two designs were submitted by Institute 611 and the bottom two designs were submitted by Institute 601. The 611 institute is located in Chengdu, while the 601 Institute is located in Shenyang, two possibilities,
1, the design of this picture is not the snowy owl, but another unknown design.
2, the Snowy Owl was not independently developed by 601, with the participation of 611.
I'm leaning toward possibility 1
 
Is it me or does the "Snowy Owl" look like the older Stealth F-15 concept for a "semi" stealth fighter but with better RCS than the newer silent eagle basically a good enough LO fighter compared to the IRL J-20 range and payload and flight performance wise
 
The fourth picture, a design I've never seen before, does anyone have any ideas about the possible design reasons for it?

(I'm very sorry about my other post, the full responsibility lies on me, and I apologize for the unpleasantness caused to everyone)
e46b6a6fa3444480a028f520c4d226c3~tplv-tt-origin.jpeg
 
Some picture background as described on Chinese web. I really do not know how credible is that.
 
from 2000
View: https://x.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1239912019664556032?t=ruZ4QgWyWT69QNBYwJos0w&s=03

Weird online OCR and Google translate
Li Tian (born 1938)
Aerodynamics expert.
Academician of the Academy of Sciences. In pneumatic Huilong
Body integrated design technology and new generation
Research on aerodynamic layout of fighter jets
make important contributions.
Verified that the three-wing surface is a 'Ttiger Ping'(?)
Canine-like design(???)
 

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Hahaha, now i know how you feel when see my machine translation. The last sentence is a colloquial saying, Literal translation:you want to draw a tiger, Not only failed, but also succeeded make it like a dog(may be cat will easier to understand?)paraphrase:make a poor imitation, or fail to achieve what one set out to do. He verified that the three-wing surface was a stupid design(What a sharp evaluation, If I were a designer, I would probably be sad for a long time)
And then the data shows that, Li Tian died of illness in Shenyang in 2018,( I don't know how to express my respect in English, sorry)This probably proves that this wind tunnel is the property of 601. But the J-20 was designed by the 611 in Chengdu, so maybe it has nothing contact with this wind tunnel?
 
Some picture background as described on Chinese web. I really do not know how credible is that.
The article points out that this image is from a Japan military forum, in 2004.
I found this website, but am still trying to find the article.
https://www.military-channel.jp/
If this image does appear on the Japan forum, I think it will be much more credible
 
Found it! Although I found a discussion post that wasn't 04, But this author has published many professional articles, as well as his reference materials, the books are all officially released by China. However, his references also include some unofficial Chinese websites that are less credible.
Link to article
https://www.military-channel.jp/serial/05_01_chinese-fighter_j-20-1
https://www.military-channel.jp/serial/05_02_chinese-fighter_j-20-2/3
https://www.military-channel.jp/serial/05_03_chinese-fighter_j-20-3
Although the article mainly discusses the reasons for the development of the J-20, there are quite a few parts in Shenyang.
And, as I mentioned earlier, Shenyang is using the J-8II research, either we are also misled by a false report, otherwise, I think the credibility is very high
 

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